Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Beefy78

The CGI looks bad because it is over-used in the PT. If they'd scaled it back then the film wouldn't have dated as much,. The CGI largely looked fine at the time but it was so over-exposed that bits are hard to watch now.

ILM have done some great work over the years.

Tony EH

It was hard to watch at the time as well. It was one of the things I recall moaning about when I saw it in the pictures.

Everything just looked fake.

Mr Freeze

Beefy78 wrote: »

The CGI looks bad because it is over-used in the PT.

Its over used in all the prequels.

I think a bit of fruit that Anakin cuts in AotC is CGI, could they not have used some real fruit, the used some CGI for when it floats across the room. It really looks like he cuts nothing.

So that's a minor gripe, but the CGI Babies in RotS, those look terrible, especially when the CGI robot doing that really annoying "Ohm Baa" noise hands the newborns to Obi Wan.

I really think its over used in all the prequels, and that a lot of it is very poor CGI.

Some of it still looks good today, like the opening battle in RotS, but I think it pales in comparison to the battle in the original trilogy that were done with models and traditional FX.

humanji

But there's plenty of models used in parts 1-3 as well. I still think it's the overuse that really makes it stand out (but again, I'd much, much prefer if they could stick to real models and sets. It just feels so much better. )

Beefy78

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Its over used in all the prequels.

I think a bit of fruit that Anakin cuts in AotC is CGI, could they not have used some real fruit, the used some CGI for when it floats across the room. It really looks like he cuts nothing.

So that's a minor gripe, but the CGI Babies in RotS, those look terrible, especially when the CGI robot doing that really annoying "Ohm Baa" noise hands the newborns to Obi Wan.

I really think its over used in all the prequels, and that a lot of it is very poor CGI.

Some of it still looks good today, like the opening battle in RotS, but I think it pales in comparison to the battle in the original trilogy that were done with models and traditional FX.

Yeah you're completely right. Bits of it look good but overall it's massively overused in the whole of the PT and we all know that. Physical sets and models will almost always look better than everything being CGI.

I'm not sure why Lucas decided to do everything on green screen. I can almost accept it in Star Wars but I'll never forgive his influence on Indy 4.

Giruilla

I can sum up simply what was wrong the prequels.

The original trilogy, even though its set in a 'galaxy far far away', felt real. Real people, real sets, real father son story, real character dilemmas, real dialogue, believable fairly simple story.

Everything about the prequels felt fake. Fake horrendous cgi, fake sets, unrealistic and unrelatable characters, un-believable and bizarre meandering story, bad acting. Even managing to fail in fundamentally what the films set out to do, explain why Vader became Vader. The Anakin character they created was just - weird. Pretty much nothing in common with the Vader we knew from the original trilogies.

Main thing Abrams needs to do is make believable characters.
I'm really not a fan of his though.. thought that second star trek was an embarrassment.. so much opportunity to create a new great star trek story on a clean slate and he basically rehashes Wrath of Khan filling the film to the brim with star trek 'references'. Yawn. Not to mention 'Lost' *shudder*

Beefy78

Lost was awesome but either way had next to no involvement from Abrams after the pilot.

Sad Professor

I actually think the CGI in the prequels looks pretty good. There's so much of it that it blends together quite well with the live action. Most of the time the actors were shooting against blue/green screen, so you don't have the awkward transition from live action to CGI that, say, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man suffered from. You kind of just accept that ever single shot has been digitally manipulated and get on with it, without being constantly pulled out of the film.

What was done to the original films is an atrocity, though. It's not so much that the CGI is bad (it is), it's just that it sticks out like a sore thumb against all the practical and optical effects.

Giruilla

Beefy78 wrote: »

Lost was awesome but either way had next to no involvement from Abrams after the pilot.

I'd beg to differ. The thought of ever re-watching an episode of Lost sends a shiver down my spine.
I thought MI3 and Super 8 were fairly awful too. I didn't get the point of Super 8.. it seemed like he was trying to make an updated goonies whilst expressing to everyone how influenced he was by Spielberg.
He'd want to lost the 'nerd fanboy' element for the new star wars but I don't have hope that he will.

Sir_Badshot

Well, The one saving grace of the prequels is the reviews they spawned by the great Harry Plinkett:

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/

Beefy78

Giruilla wrote: »

I'd beg to differ. The thought of ever re-watching an episode of Lost sends a shiver down my spine.
I thought MI3 and Super 8 were fairly awful too. I didn't get the point of Super 8.. it seemed like he was trying to make an updated goonies whilst expressing to everyone how influenced he was by Spielberg.
He'd want to lost the 'nerd fanboy' element for the new star wars but I don't have hope that he will.

I'm re-watching Lost at the moment and it's great even if it ended up not being the show that it looked like it was going to be. Either way my point is that Abrams didn't have any real involvement in the show and it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat him with.

Oafley Jones

Giruilla wrote: »

I'd beg to differ. The thought of ever re-watching an episode of Lost sends a shiver down my spine.
I thought MI3 and Super 8 were fairly awful too. I didn't get the point of Super 8.. it seemed like he was trying to make an updated goonies whilst expressing to everyone how influenced he was by Spielberg.
He'd want to lost the 'nerd fanboy' element for the new star wars but I don't have hope that he will.

I'd be so ****ed off with my name being dropped in relation to Super 8 if I was the beard.

Sad Professor

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I'd be so ****ed off with my name being dropped in relation to Super 8 if I was the beard.

He produced it.

Mr Freeze

Sad Professor wrote: »

I actually think the CGI in the prequels looks pretty good.

Even the Gungans?

I think they are pretty terrible, not Scorpion King in The Mummy Returns terrible, but still really bad.

Oafley Jones

Sad Professor wrote: »

He produced it.

He's produced a lot of ****e. He doesn't have his name being dragged up constantly for Transformers. Which I'd argue is a better movie.

Giruilla

I love this picture.. bewildered actors standing around doing nothing on an entirely cgi screen. 'What are we supposed to be looking at?'. What an absolute mess that film was.

krudler

humanji wrote: »

But there's plenty of models used in parts 1-3 as well. I still think it's the overuse that really makes it stand out (but again, I'd much, much prefer if they could stick to real models and sets. It just feels so much better. )

That, the final space battle of Return of the Jedi pisses all over anything in the prequel trilogy. The opening of ROTS just feels like watching someone else place a nice looking video game.

The biggest sins of the prequels were that they undid everything set up in the mythology of the originals. Anakin wasn't "the best pilot in the galaxy when I met him" he was a whingebag brat who basically blunders his way through the finale of TPM, complains about everything in AOTC and then turns into full blown drama queen in ROTS.

The Jedi weren't "guardians of the galaxy" they were a bunch of clueless bureaucrats who couldn't figure out someone who spent a load of time around them was a Sith lord and spend most of the trilogy sitting on chairs squabbling or sensing things are wrong and frowning a lot and stepping in to resolve trade disputes and taxes (!) They're basically SIPTU with lightsabers.

Mr Freeze

^ Surely nobody can dispute that.

Gbear

krudler wrote: »

That, the final space battle of Return of the Jedi pisses all over anything in the prequel trilogy. The opening of ROTS just feels like watching someone else place a nice looking video game.

I thought that part looked brilliant. A giant space battle should be overwhelming and frantic.

krudler wrote: »

The biggest sins of the prequels were that they undid everything set up in the mythology of the originals. Anakin wasn't "the best pilot in the galaxy when I met him" he was a whingebag brat who basically blunders his way through the finale of TPM, complains about everything in AOTC and then turns into full blown drama queen in ROTS.

The Jedi weren't "guardians of the galaxy" they were a bunch of clueless bureaucrats who couldn't figure out someone who spent a load of time around them was a Sith lord and spend most of the trilogy sitting on chairs squabbling or sensing things are wrong and frowning a lot and stepping in to resolve trade disputes and taxes (!) They're basically SIPTU with lightsabers.

That wouldn't even have been a problem if they'd really played to that more effectively - having Anakin drift away from the Jedi because they were a shower of useless gob****es.
Instead there was some vague promise of immortality and he murdered a load of children for some reason.
His voyage wasn't really one of gradually falling from grace but of switching his "good" switch over to "evil" and immediately becoming a child murderer.

Tony EH

krudler wrote: »

The biggest sins of the prequels were that they undid everything set up in the mythology of the originals. Anakin wasn't "the best pilot in the galaxy when I met him" he was a whingebag brat who basically blunders his way through the finale of TPM, complains about everything in AOTC and then turns into full blown drama queen in ROTS.

The Jedi weren't "guardians of the galaxy" they were a bunch of clueless bureaucrats who couldn't figure out someone who spent a load of time around them was a Sith lord and spend most of the trilogy sitting on chairs squabbling or sensing things are wrong and frowning a lot and stepping in to resolve trade disputes and taxes (!) They're basically SIPTU with lightsabers.

...and Leia didn't remember her mother...cos she was brown bread.

God, I fuckin hate the prequels! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: <

---

there aren't enough of these to express the hate.

Giruilla

Gbear wrote: »

Instead there was some vague promise of immortality and he murdered a load of children for some reason.

Younglings... younglings...

Was children not a 'cute' enough word for lucas?

Zubeneschamali

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a much better Star Wars prequel than Lucas's efforts.

krudler

Gbear wrote: »

I thought that part looked brilliant. A giant space battle should be overwhelming and frantic.



That wouldn't even have been a problem if they'd really played to that more effectively - having Anakin drift away from the Jedi because they were a shower of useless gob****es.
Instead there was some vague promise of immortality and he murdered a load of children for some reason.
His voyage wasn't really one of gradually falling from grace but of switching his "good" switch over to "evil" and immediately becoming a child murderer.

And all of this stemmed from some scary dreams. SCARY DREAMS! The change from Anakin to Vader was way too fast, one minute he's ratting Palpatine out to the other Jedi the next he's flinging Mace Windu out a window and being a full blown child killing red eyed bad guy, there's no slow build up at all.

The prequels should have started when Anakin was already in his late teens or early 20's, a prospective Jedi who they could have set up the fall from grace over two films, disagreeing with the Jedi council and disobeying Obi Wan and having a high opinion of his own abilities was fine, I had no problem with that.
But not being an upstart crybaby one minute then Darth Vader the next. and all this talk of "he helped hunt down and destroy the Jedi" did he? he killed a bunch of kids, the stormtroopers did all the rest with dispatching the Jedi.
If we'd gotten Vader earlier in ROTS and shown him actually going around offing Jedi with a Stormtrooper death squad at his side? That sh1t writes itself.

It was really hard to give a sh1te about the other Jedi when you don't see them doing anything remotely Jedi-ish for most of the trilogy, aside from kicking ass at the end of AOTC for a few minutes.

krudler

Giruilla wrote: »

Younglings... younglings...

Was children not a 'cute' enough word for lucas?

It sounded ok when Yoda said it, but when Ewan McGregor delivers that "He..killed.....YOUNGLINGS!" line I wanted to punch him in the face. y u forget how to act?!

Kirby

krudler wrote: »

They're basically SIPTU with lightsabers.

This made me chuckle. :P

Sad Professor

I agree that Anakin's transformation was rushed, but I understand why Lucas wanted to show him as a child. There was just no need for that to be a whole film. The Anakin slave stuff should have been the first 30 mins of TPM, then it should have jumped forward in time to him as a man.

Even his physical transformation into Vader happened too fast. The Obi-wan duel should have happened at the end of Episode II.

Tony EH

krudler wrote: »

Mace Windu out a window

Fck me, if I just didn't lol at that in the office.

Getting weird looks now.


:pac:

Giruilla

krudler wrote: »

If we'd gotten Vader earlier in ROTS and shown him actually going around offing Jedi with a Stormtrooper death squad at his side? That sh1t writes itself.

Seriously, how could they not have included any scenes with Vader.. being Vader? As in that would be the big pay off. Instead we effectively got 8/9 hours of build up for a scene where Vader cries and shouts his girlfriends name! Really don't get how anyone defends the third film too.. that was the worst in my view.

Zubeneschamali

Sad Professor wrote: »

The Anakin slave stuff should have been the first 30 mins of TPM

No, Anakin should have been an adult, too old for Yoda to train, and Obi Wan should have taken on the job of training him in defiance of his old master, Yoda.

Because that's what actually happened.

krudler

Sad Professor wrote: »

I agree that Anakin's transformation was rushed, but I understand why Lucas wanted to show him as a child. There was just no need for that to be a whole film. The Anakin slave stuff should have been the first 30 mins of TPM, then it should have jumped forward in time to him as a man.

Even his physical transformation into Vader happened too fast. The Obi-wan duel should have happened at the end of Episode II.

Indeed, we could have been spared all the gee whiz yippee stuff from young Anakin. Even if they showed him as a troubled kid from the off, who Obi Wan wanted to take under his wing and train as a Jedi. Redlettermedia's review of TPM went through how Qui Gon was a pointless character, and he was. Everything he does could have been Obi Wan instead. I had no problem with Liam Neeson, he's probably the best thing about TPM in fairness.