Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Synode

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

They're disgraceful.

:pac: People have very vocal opinions on them alright

TheDoc

Synode wrote: »

I like them for all the same reasons I like the originals - spaceships, jedi, lightsabres, battles, Yoda etc etc. Bar the last one (where he went way overboard with CGI), I also think they're visually stunning.

Some of the story and execution weren't great at times but that doesn't ruin them for me personally. For me they're another piece in the story I was first introduced to as a kid and grew up with - the greatest fantasy saga of all time. I've watched the prequels multiple multiple times and still love them. Sure I could point out and concentrate on the many flaws, but seriously, name me a film that doesn't have flaws. They just don't ruin it for me

I'd be similar to this. I enjoyed the prequels for the light sabre battles, and well, the battles, which I felt the originals did in that very clunky old style. I'm also of that different generation, I watched Star wars as a kid sure, but they had been out for the guts of 15-20 years already. If you were a teen when they first came out, or even a kid, you were a fully fledged adult when the new ones came out so I cuold imagine the disappointment.

When I think of my nephews or younger cousins who were kids when the prequels came out, they absolutely adored them for years, and still do. I was a teen when the prequels came and loved them. But I loved them for the visuals, for the settings, for the lightsabre battles among other things.

Sure there is problems with them, but there are problems with the originals. I love Star Wars, but I don't find it some personal insult that a trilogy made a couple of decades after the original had some problems.

If I'm honest, a couple of the games that have come out from LucasArts I've liked far more then any of the films, and there looks to be some really good content there that to me is more interesting then the cycle of the Skywalker family tree. Hopefully down the line someone can take on that story arc and make what would be an excellent series that has a more adult theme about it.

pixelburp

Synode wrote: »

I like them for all the same reasons I like the originals - spaceships, jedi, lightsabres, battles, Yoda etc etc. Bar the last one (where he went way overboard with CGI), I also think they're visually stunning.

Some of the story and execution weren't great at times but that doesn't ruin them for me personally. For me they're another piece in the story I was first introduced to as a kid and grew up with - the greatest fantasy saga of all time. I've watched the prequels multiple multiple times and still love them. Sure I could point out and concentrate on the many flaws, but seriously, name me a film that doesn't have flaws. They just don't ruin it for me

It's not a question of naming films that don't have flaws, the assertion is simply that the prequels have so many of them in so many categories it's hard to consider them successes by many (most?) peoples' barometers of what constitutes good blockbuster. Every film has flaws

Fair enough if you find enjoyment out of the prequels, more power to you! Personally the mere presence of Jedis and Star Wars paraphernalia wasn't enough to paper over the indigestible qualities. First and foremost, I found the prequels boring, and utterly unstimulating on any level. Actually, I tell a lie: the production design could be great, with the the ornate designs of Naboo architecture and technology a highlight.

Mr Freeze

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd be similar to this. I enjoyed the prequels for the light sabre battles, and well, the battles, which I felt the originals did in that very clunky old style.

That was state of the art at the time, and it looks better than anything in the originals if watched today.

The space battle at the end of ROTJ is amazing to this day, I can't say that about any scene\sequence in the prequels.

TheDoc

Mr Freeze wrote: »

That was state of the art at the time, and it looks better than anything in the originals if watched today.

The space battle at the end of ROTJ is amazing to this day, I can't say that about any scene\sequence in the prequels.

Sorry to clarify I meant the melee combat. Granted maybe it was brilliant on initial release, I remember watching A New Hope with my Dad and being unable to control my laughter at the quiet frankly rubbish duel between Obi Wan and Vader. I was young at the time, but it looked so clunky and rubbish. Empire Strikes back was a little better, and ROTJ was good. It's what I imagined a Jedi should be like, stronger, faster. It's not fighting with broadswords, it should be slick.

I thought the prequels choreography was better, much more enthralling, and some of the duels in those three are still some of my favourite scenes from films I can think off.

I'm not going to try sway opinion, I totally "get" why people freaked out over the new three. But it had some stuff going for it, lightsabre battles being one of them. And I'm not a staunch defender of the new trilogy, I can just sit down and watch all six without feeling some personal insult or outrage.

Mr Freeze

TheDoc wrote: »

Sorry to clarify I meant the melee combat. Granted maybe it was brilliant on initial release, I remember watching A New Hope with my Dad and being unable to control my laughter at the quiet frankly rubbish duel between Obi Wan and Vader. I was young at the time, but it looked so clunky and rubbish.

Apparently that was due to Lucas saying that Lightsabers were very heavy, that is the way he directed it.

He obviously changed his mind in the prequels as they are flinging them all over the place.

I remember Mark Hamill commenting on it in one of his infinite interviews. I'd never find it now.

Tony EH

TheDoc wrote: »

I'd be similar to this. I enjoyed the prequels for the light sabre battles, and well, the battles, which I felt the originals did in that very clunky old style.

You need to go back and watch the originals again and I mean the proper originals. The space battle at the end of 'Return of the Jedi' is one of the finest examples of model work you'll see and it's not "clunky" in any way. Contrast that with the utterly forgettable battles in any of the prequels and you can see why people are just not convinced.

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm also of that different generation, I watched Star wars as a kid sure, but they had been out for the guts of 15-20 years already. If you were a teen when they first came out, or even a kid, you were a fully fledged adult when the new ones came out so I cuold imagine the disappointment.

I've never bought this argument. I'm a serial re-watcher of films and there are some films I loved as a child that are just unwatchable now, in part, if not in whole. But, the original Star Wars trilogy still holds up extremely well and even the Ewoks aren't too bad when placed alongside the despicable Jar Jar Binks and those wretched Gungans. Don't get me wrong, it would have been FAR superior to have stuck with the original idea of making them Wookiees and as far as I'm concerned, Lucas' decision was a clear indicator of where his mind was going and it didn't bode well.

But, the prequels stink not because of the age one viewed them, they stink because they are films that are littered to truly awful ideas, decisions and execution.

ziedth

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Apparently that was due to Lucas saying that Lightsabers were very heavy, that is the way he directed it.

He obviously changed his mind in the prequels as they are flinging them all over the place.

I remember Mark Hamill commenting on it in one of his infinite interviews. I'd never find it now.

Funny you should say that I definitely remember an interview with Lucas saying that the reason for.the difference between three two light sabre styles (I.e slow and fast) was that the force was on the way out for want of a better expression during the original trilogy and that's why it was so slow compared to the prequel trilogy when it would have been at it's strongest. I can't find it now but it made a good bit of sense before all that nonsense of the force being in Their cells or something

Tony EH

TheDoc wrote: »

Sorry to clarify I meant the melee combat. Granted maybe it was brilliant on initial release, I remember watching A New Hope with my Dad and being unable to control my laughter at the quiet frankly rubbish duel between Obi Wan and Vader. I was young at the time, but it looked so clunky and rubbish. Empire Strikes back was a little better, and ROTJ was good. It's what I imagined a Jedi should be like, stronger, faster. It's not fighting with broadswords, it should be slick.

Out of all the light sabre fights, the one in 'Star Wars' is probably the most realistic. They actually look like men (old men at that) having a fight with swords.

The fight in 'The Empire Strikes Back' is with a young man who's still learning his trade, as it were, and another man who is reluctant to kill his son.

And the fight in 'Return of the Jedi' is infused with a furious anger that is absent from anything in the prequels. When Luke loses control and beats down on Darth Vader with absolute hatred, there's more feeling in that fight than anything that was "generated" in the fight between Count Dukula and that incredibly bad CGI bouncing Yoda.

You wants laughs? You need look no further than that.

All of the fights in the prequels look like staged choreography, or a computer game and that is why they are never remotely convincing for a single second.

Gbear

Tony EH wrote: »

When Luke loses control and beats down on Darth Vader with absolute hatred, there's more feeling in that fight than anything that was "generated" in the fight between Count Dukula and that incredibly bad CGI bouncing Yoda.

You wants laughs? You need look no further than that.

I thought that it was telling that I loved that scene when I was 12 or whatever because it made me laugh.

There was some hammy stuff in the original trilogy - although a lot of that can be dismissed as a sign of the times it was created in - however at it's core it was a proper film.

The prequels felt like a product very narrowly aimed at kiddies.

It's like the difference between a Pixar film that kids adore but is also an excellent film in it's own right vs. something that's terrible but it's ok because it's not supposed to be watchable by anyone over the age of 14.

J Mysterio

I'm fascinated to see what role Domnhall Gleeson has in the film. So cool to have him in it.

Some rumours suggest

he is Luke's son?

Tony EH

Gbear wrote: »

I thought that it was telling that I loved that scene when I was 12 or whatever because it made me laugh.

There was some hammy stuff in the original trilogy - although a lot of that can be dismissed as a sign of the times it was created in - however at it's core it was a proper film.

The prequels felt like a product very narrowly aimed at kiddies.

It's like the difference between a Pixar film that kids adore but is also an excellent film in it's own right vs. something that's terrible but it's ok because it's not supposed to be watchable by anyone over the age of 14.

You mean like 'The Incredibles' vs 'The Tellytubbies'.

The CGI bouncing Yoda and Count Darkulon is a perfect example of what I mentioned earlier about bad ideas, decisions and execution.

1. It's a very bad idea to have Yoda fight a light sabre battle. Full stop. Not to mention he does it with a icckle, wicckle light sabre too...awwww.

2. It's a bad decision to go ahead and film it anyway, even though it must have been clear, to at least the more intelligent of the crew that the scene was not going to work on any serious dramatic level.

3. It's execution was lamentable, to say the least and I clearly remember very loud derisory laughter from the audience when I saw it in the cinema and there were more than a few people, I'd say, that were like me and were sinking further and further into their seats wondering WTF they were doing actually paying money to watch this crap.

uncleoswald

Call it a matter of personal taste but give me the clunky old men fighting over the bouncy CGI or over-choreographed fights in the prequels that were void of all physicality or tension. Let's hope with the additions of the cast of The Raid Ep. VII won't make the same mistake.

Drumpot

I think the prequels aren't that bad if watched as a standalone trilogy.

I love the original Star Wars and was old enough to see them in the 80s.

When the prequels were announced I couldnt wait to see them. The first was shocking but I thought they got better (admittedly from a very low standard) as they went along.

I thought revenge of the sith was superb as an action sci fi movie. The fights at the end were brilliantly executed.

For all the yoda cgi bashing, it would seem ridiculous to have the most powerful Jedi not fight once in 6 movies. How it could work with puppets is beyond me. I think it actually gives yoda more credibility when he is introduced to Luke in the old movies because he's actually done something other then cracked a few words of wisdom and raise a small spaceship.

He had scared the be jaesus out of the emperor along with schooling dooku who made a run for it during their duel.

I understand the hate but don't think the prequels are that bad.

I'm also looking forward to the new movies. I've only scratched the surface of the Star Wars universe and there is so many more stories that could be told. Thought it would of been cool to go to the very start of the force (some superb stories thousands of years before the movies were set) but I trust JJ to throw something entertaining together.

Iranoutofideas

Drumpot wrote: »

I think the prequels aren't that bad if watched as a standalone trilogy.

I love the original Star Wars and was old enough to see them in the 80s.

When the prequels were announced I couldnt wait to see them. The first was shocking but I thought they got better (admittedly from a very low standard) as they went along.

I thought revenge of the sith was superb as an action sci fi movie. The fights at the end were brilliantly executed.

For all the yoda cgi bashing, it would seem ridiculous to have the most powerful Jedi not fight once in 6 movies. How it could work with puppets is beyond me. I think it actually gives yoda more credibility when he is introduced to Luke in the old movies because he's actually done something other then cracked a few words of wisdom and raise a small spaceship.

He had scared the be jaesus out of the emperor along with schooling dooku who made a run for it during their duel.

I understand the hate but don't think the prequels are that bad.

I'm also looking forward to the new movies. I've only scratched the surface of the Star Wars universe and there is so many more stories that could be told. Thought it would of been cool to go to the very start of the force (some superb stories thousands of years before the movies were set) but I trust JJ to throw something entertaining together.

Revenge of the Sith is a terrible movie. It is only good relative to how appalling Episodes 1&2 are.

Read this, an accurate and humorous list of all that is wrong with Episode 3 -

http://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep3_41-50.php

Adamantium

Any word on them releasing the original unaltered trilogy (I know that Fox have the rights to the first until 2020) and Lucasfilm have the other two.
I've never minded the changes but I know I say that, given I've never seen the originals at all.

I remember watching the 1997 special Edition with Sebastian Shaw at the end of ROTJ on RTE in the late 90's, that's as old as I got.

I wish they (Lucasfilm/Disney) officially confirm or deny, **** or get off the pot regarding this long running question. Its getting tiresome


Edit: Oh look I found a recent link rumour

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/139125-Disney-Star-Wars-Original-Unaltered-Theatrical-Release-Blu-ray

Tony EH

Drumpot wrote: »

I thought revenge of the sith was superb as an action sci fi movie. The fights at the end were brilliantly executed.

It looked and felt like a computer game.

Drumpot wrote: »

For all the yoda cgi bashing, it would seem ridiculous to have the most powerful Jedi not fight once in 6 movies. How it could work with puppets is beyond me. I think it actually gives yoda more credibility when he is introduced to Luke in the old movies because he's actually done something other then cracked a few words of wisdom and raise a small spaceship.

Having Yoda in a scrap or two would have been OK. But, it absolutely didn't have to involve a light sabre fight. Not every Jedi has to be an expert with a...um..."blade".

Yoda's strength's could have been his complete mastery of the force and his ability to use it to manipulate the objects and energy around him to offset his lack of physicality. That would have made for a far more interesting and, frankly, less laughable fight.

As it is, it's just ridiculous.

A powerful Jedi master doesn't also have to Errol Flynn with a sabre. His mastery of the force can manifest itself in a number of different ways.

We don't really see that in the Star Wars universe too much, because Lucas is a pretty terrible writer, although he is a fantastic ideas man.

Drumpot

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Revenge of the Sith is a terrible movie in my opinion. I think It is only good relative to how appalling Episodes 1&2 are.

Read this, an accurate and humorous list of all that is wrong with Episode 3 -

http://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep3_41-50.php

Just made a few corrections for you . .

Thanks for the link, but I am comfortable with enjoying the movie personally. . The best parody stuff of star wars are the ones that don't take themselves too seriously . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byMClFz6w-w

Adamantium

This and its sequels are literally better than the prequel trilogy storyline.

Obi Wan as a drug user and having to eventually rehab in Ep3 is genius in particular

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSCm8yAxBr8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI8aSJBC9u0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itkl7cHcX_E

Drumpot

Adamantium wrote: »

This and its sequels are literally better than the prequel trilogy storyline

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSCm8yAxBr8

That was hilarious . .

Iranoutofideas

Drumpot wrote: »

Just made a few corrections for you . .

Thanks for the link, but I am comfortable with enjoying the movie personally. . The best parody stuff of star wars are the ones that don't take themselves too seriously . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byMClFz6w-w

Make all the corrections you like, it still won't change the fact that the prequels have been universally panned and rightly so.

Beefy78

Episode One is the only watchable film in the PT, IMO. It is obviously massively flawed but it is the tightest,most coherent story and is definitely the peak of the acting. Plus the final act is pretty decent,

Holsten

Have you seen Episode 3?

Clearly the best of the bad bunch!

happysunnydays

:mad:.....them new SW films are god damn awful sh*te!
.....I like them, haven't you seen revenge siths?
:eek:

shruikan2553

The problem I had with the prequels was that most of it made little sense. The clone wars series did a better job of explaining that time period and gave Anakin a personality.

Auralnauts is the next best thing.

After 1-3 I cant be anymore disappointed so 7-9 can only improve things or make no difference to my already low expectations.

thegreengoblin

I know some people just dip in and out of this thread so they're not going to be aware of everything that has been discussed in the past but...am I the only one getting tired of seeing another debate on the prequels in a thread that's meant to be about the next film in the series?

Every few weeks it seems that someone will make an off the cuff remark about one of the films and then it snowballs into a debate along the lines of 'well Phantom Menace wasn't actually that bad, at least it didn't use as much CGI' or 'Revenge of the Sith was the best cos it was the darkest' ...etc, etc.

I'm not being a dick about it, and I'm sure if I looked back I probably joined in myself at some stage! I like a good discussion on the prequels (and the original trilogy) as much as any Star Wars fan but I just don't think this is the thread for it. There's plenty of room in the dedicated Star Wars thread in Sci-Fi and Fantasy for the other films.

I'm not trying to backseat mod here, it's just a suggestion.

happysunnydays

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I know some people just dip in and out of this thread so they're not going to be aware of everything that has been discussed in the past but...am I the only one getting tired of seeing another debate on the prequels in a thread that's meant to be about the next film in the series?
.

Tell you what, i'll start a new thread that will get some real original discussion going, how about....the best Bond actor of all time! That's never been discussed like a billion million thousand times!
....or we could talk about Kingdom of Crystal Skulls again?....or maybe not!

Gbear

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I know some people just dip in and out of this thread so they're not going to be aware of everything that has been discussed in the past but...am I the only one getting tired of seeing another debate on the prequels in a thread that's meant to be about the next film in the series?

Every few weeks it seems that someone will make an off the cuff remark about one of the films and then it snowballs into a debate along the lines of 'well Phantom Menace wasn't actually that bad, at least it didn't use as much CGI' or 'Revenge of the Sith was the best cos it was the darkest' ...etc, etc.

I'm not being a dick about it, and I'm sure if I looked back I probably joined in myself at some stage! I like a good discussion on the prequels (and the original trilogy) as much as any Star Wars fan but I just don't think this is the thread for it. There's plenty of room in the dedicated Star Wars thread in Sci-Fi and Fantasy for the other films.

I'm not trying to backseat mod here, it's just a suggestion.

A separate thread to dump prequel trilogy waffle wouldn't go astray.

Wouldn't want to create more work than is necessary for the mods though.

It'll be more important when we get closer to the film's release and there's actually something to talk about.

There's been relatively little of substance since the trailer and that's to be expected when the film's 10 months away.

faceman

thegreengoblin wrote: »

I know some people just dip in and out of this thread so they're not going to be aware of everything that has been discussed in the past but...am I the only one getting tired of seeing another debate on the prequels in a thread that's meant to be about the next film in the series?

Every few weeks it seems that someone will make an off the cuff remark about one of the films and then it snowballs into a debate along the lines of 'well Phantom Menace wasn't actually that bad, at least it didn't use as much CGI' or 'Revenge of the Sith was the best cos it was the darkest' ...etc, etc.

I'm not being a dick about it, and I'm sure if I looked back I probably joined in myself at some stage! I like a good discussion on the prequels (and the original trilogy) as much as any Star Wars fan but I just don't think this is the thread for it. There's plenty of room in the dedicated Star Wars thread in Sci-Fi and Fantasy for the other films.

I'm not trying to backseat mod here, it's just a suggestion.

I'm conscious of this but we'll keep going the thread as is for the moment as the discussion is relevant.

Wedwood

Getting back to Episode 7, I've tried to avoid spoilers, but EDIT: Apols folks,i've deleted the spoiler, thought it was common knowledge, its 'spoilered' in one of the replies below.

PS: How do you 'spoiler' a comment so the text is blacked out ?