Star Wars: The Force Awakens [** SPOILERS FROM POST 4472 ONWARD **]

Tony EH

I never got the impression that Luke was that close to his aunt and uncle.

As far as the acting is concerned, while it isn't Robert DeNiro caliber in 'Star Wars', it's a million miles away from the nonsense in the prequels.

That's just painful to watch, regardless of script.

Synode

I've said it many times. The prequels get far more hate than they deserve. The originals were just as hammy at times. I love them all and can't wait for the new one

Zubeneschamali

tok9 wrote: »

Harrison Ford was very good though. His comic timing is excellent throughout.

Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing are both professionals, and did fine.

Hamill and Fisher didn't know what the hell they were doing.

If you want a laugh, look up Vader in Prowse's real voice on youtube, it is hilarious.

"Oi want those plans, so I do, arr."

Gbear

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Alec Guinness and Peter Cushing are both professionals, and did fine.

Hamill and Fisher didn't know what the hell they were doing.

If you want a laugh, look up Vader in Prowse's real voice on youtube, it is hilarious.

"Oi want those plans, so I do, arr."

That's hilarious. It gives the whole thing a very amateurish feel. It really takes you out of the scene and you're aware of a big gob****e standing around in ludicrously melodramatic armour rather than it being DARTH VADER in giant capital letters 10 feet high.

I think Hamill and Fisher were grand really. They felt more 70's than incompetent.

Having solid performances from the likes of Guiness, Cushing, and the rest of the flag officers on the death star, the menace of James Earl Jones and the sort of irreverence of Solo meant that Hamill's earnestness wasn't too cringey and Leia had fairly appropriate levels of sass.
I don't feel like it's nostalgia making up the shortfall - I do find quite a few bits of RotJ to be pretty cringey and miss the mark.

pixelburp

Synode wrote: »

Do you all think the acting was good in the orginals?

Hamill's performance was whiny and grating, but the one thing the original films had in their scripts was some wit and sparkle, and that came out in the performances. It was cheesy as hell in places, but not necessarily bad. Look at scenes such as Han's attempts to fake a response over the comms in the prison: daft yeah, but lots of wit & brio from Ford himself. The material in the prequels was dead on the page before it flopped out of the actor's mouths.

thegreengoblin

pixelburp wrote: »

Hamill's performance was whiny and grating, but the one thing the original films had in their scripts was some wit and sparkle, and that came out in the performances. It was cheesy as hell in places, but not necessarily bad. Look at scenes such as Han's attempts to fake a response over the comms in the prison: daft yeah, but lots of wit & brio from Ford himself. The material in the prequels was dead on the page before it flopped out of the actor's mouths.

Spot on. In Empire the chemistry between Ford and Fisher was as good as it gets. Some of the exchanges were fantastic. 'Would it help if I got out and pushed?'...(throws a sharp look at her)... 'It might!'

Same with Threepio. The scene where he's frantically trying to tell Han that the Falcon's hyperdrive is damaged is hilarious. 'Captain Solo, Captain Solo...(menacing stare from Han)...'it can wait.' Followed by Han's classic line as Threepio persists: 'Either shut him up or shut him down!'. Brilliant stuff.

There was nothing in the prequels which came close to that.

Admittedly though, by ROTJ they were phoning it in!

eviltimeban

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Admittedly though, by ROTJ they were phoning it in!

I dunno, the "fly casual" bit in ROTJ is one of my favourite lines.

Tony EH

Chewie's response is better.

eviltimeban

The problem with Ewan McGregor in the prequels is that he was trying to hard (or was made) to sound, and act, like Alec Guinness. He should've just done it his own way, after all, people change over the years so beyond the voice he could be a different person. The worst bit of acting was his little chuckle when they are in the lift at the start of ROTS; it sounds so forced and fake.

Liam Neeson was the only one with any kind of naturalness to him. McDiarmuid chewed the hell out of the scenery but he was pretty good in the first one.

Adamantium

eviltimeban wrote: »

The problem with Ewan McGregor in the prequels is that he was trying to hard (or was made) to sound, and act, like Alec Guinness. He should've just done it his own way, after all, people change over the years so beyond the voice he could be a different person. The worst bit of acting was his little chuckle when they are in the lift at the start of ROTS; it sounds so forced and fake.

Liam Neeson was the only one with any kind of naturalness to him. McDiarmuid chewed the hell out of the scenery but he was pretty good in the first one.

I swear if the actors had directed themselves (and had been left alone), the performances would have been more energetic, because the behind the scenes vibe has the trio of Hayden, Natalie and Ewan all getting along, laughing way. The whole knight and royalty speak didn't have to be well....royal. Princess Leia was a princess, but she didn't certainly speak like one (although she could when necessary)

Occasionally you get this and think WOW what would could have been, "let the actors off the leash" especially the inexperienced ones who wouldn't question Lucas. I swear this is more McGregor than Lucas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_YozYt8l-g

grames_bond

^^ watching that clip just makes me realise just how much i hate hayden christensen in these movies - truely awful!

eviltimeban

grames_bond wrote: »

^^ watching that clip just makes me realise just how much i hate hayden christensen in these movies - truely awful!

Him shouting out "I hate you!" at that moment completely ruined the whole thing. He sounded like a teenager storming off after a row with his parents about going out with his friends.

Simon Pegg wrote a very good alternate scene for the "making of" Darth Vader, it's in his book but not sure if it's online.

Brief_Lives

eviltimeban wrote: »

Him shouting out "I hate you!" at that moment completely ruined the whole thing. He sounded like a teenager storming off after a row with his parents about going out with his friends.

Simon Pegg wrote a very good alternate scene for the "making of" Darth Vader, it's in his book but not sure if it's online.

How does it go...?:D

eviltimeban

Brief_Lives wrote: »

How does it go...?:D

Well it ignores the whole "where is Padme" bit, and actually has him screaming in pain / fear as the mask comes down, and as it goes on his face it muffles his screams to silence... his last human sound... and then the Vader breathing starts.

J Mysterio

eviltimeban wrote: »

Well it ignores the whole "where is Padme" bit, and actually has him screaming in pain / fear as the mask comes down, and as it goes on his face it muffles his screams to silence... his last human sound... and then the Vader breathing starts.

Wow, how samey?

Realt Dearg Sec

eviltimeban wrote: »

Him shouting out "I hate you!" at that moment completely ruined the whole thing. He sounded like a teenager storming off after a row with his parents about going out with his friends.

That was the problem with his character all the way through. We're supposed to see his descent from honourable Jedi into darkness. Instead we see his descent into whiny, annoying, gullible and impressionable pain in the hole teen. Followed by being Darth Vader moaning "NOOOOOOO!!!" and then just being the Emporer's sidekick even though at this point, unless he's the stupidest clown in galactic history, he should be able to see that Palpatine has been stringing him along with a feed of bull****. Given how calculating he is in the originals, it's kind of annoying how dimwitted, gullible, and most of all whiny, he is in the prequels.

No actor could have saved the script that had him whinging like a grounded teen about how Obi Wan won't let him do whatever he wants. Or his cringeworthy discussions of democracy and dictatorship with Padme. It was a wasted opportunity to tell a potentially really cool story.

J Mysterio

Good point well made.

Pawwed Rig

Give it 20 years and we will see a reboot of the whole story (if they remain succesful) similar to Batman and Start Trek

david75

I would support a reboot of the prequels...not sure the originals should ever be remade though..its a once in a lifetime lightning in a bottle magic SW has..you couldnt replicate that

eviltimeban

J Mysterio wrote: »

Wow, how samey?

There was more to it than that, but overall it was better.

FunLover18

The other probeln with Anakin in the prequels doesn't match up character wise with Vader in the originals

J Mysterio

FunLover18 wrote: »

The other probeln with Anakin in the prequels doesn't match up character wise with Vader in the originals

Wah?

Oafley Jones

Have we seen anything to suggest that they're referencing the prequels in any form in these movies. Or are they just going to actively ignore them?

J Mysterio

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Have we seen anything to suggest that they're referencing the prequels in any form in these movies. Or are they just going to actively ignore them?

It's all a continuum. The history of what happened in the prequels is relevant to the sequels.

Zubeneschamali

J Mysterio wrote: »

Wah?

In the OT, Vader is evil, sure, but he is calm. He is menacing, but always in control. He kills people, but he seldom raises his voice. Even in the fight sequences he remains in control of himself, and up to the end, of his opponent.

When the Falcon blasts out of the Hoth cave just as Vader arrives, does he yell NOOOOOO?

When he sees them escape again with their engines fixed, the Admiral is obviously planking, but Vader doesn't shake his fists in the air and yell, or crush boxes and robots in rage.

It isn't the same character.

eviltimeban

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

In the OT, Vader is evil, sure, but he is calm. He is menacing, but always in control. He kills people, but he seldom raises his voice. Even in the fight sequences he remains in control of himself, and up to the end, of his opponent.

When the Falcon blasts out of the Hoth cave just as Vader arrives, does he yell NOOOOOO?

When he sees them escape again with their engines fixed, the Admiral is obviously planking, but Vader doesn't shake his fists in the air and yell, or crush boxes and robots in rage.

It isn't the same character.

It's the same character, just 20 years (or whatever it is) older. He could have "matured" in that time.

But how about this:

In a surprise casting move, Hayden Christiansen will reprise his role as Anakin Skywalker in the new Star Wars: The Force Awakens movie.

Could you imagine the uproar?! Or would it be a chance for him to redeem himself? He'd appear as the Force version of himself, to guide Luke and Leia at their most vulnerable moments.

Actually it would be interesting to see a Darth / Anakin interaction with Leia, as we didn't see anything other than them as enemies (and Vader gave no indication he knew she was his daughter).

J Mysterio

It's the same character, but older.

Christiansen probably was a little too squealy in the prequels but the point he was trying to convey was he was suffering internal turmoil as he was finely balanced between the light and the dark sides of the force. The Vader we see in the original trilogy is set on his path, is more mature and has accepted his lot.

Kiith

Do people really hate Christiansen for Anakin in the prequels? He wasn't great, i'll give you that. But it's not his fault they wrote him like a total moron. He can only work with the script he was given. I didn't like his character, but i don't blame the actor.

Gbear

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

No actor could have saved the script that had him whinging like a grounded teen about how Obi Wan won't let him do whatever he wants. Or his cringeworthy discussions of democracy and dictatorship with Padme. It was a wasted opportunity to tell a potentially really cool story.

Matt Lanter and the writers for the Clone Wars TV show did a farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr better job at it.

Instead of him being whiny, petty, by turns gullible and ludicrously paranoid and then randomly murdering a load of children, you instead get the impression of this stern, utilitarian man (not brat) who has a modicum of dignity but has a strong rebellious streak and is often quick to anger (real anger - choking people and stuff; not just whining like a bitch) but is fundamentally brilliant, generous, and good. You see genuine and justifiable estrangement from the Jedi order as the war takes it's toll on their moral foundations and you begin to see how "from my point of view the jedi are evil" could actually start to make sense, with some further development.

Having that Anakin become Vader makes way more sense.

I think what was missing was a proper motivation and the lack of guilt driving his decisions that actually pushed beyond the point of no return - the attack on the Jedi temple, murdering Padme and trying to kill Obi-Wan.

Having Palpatine engineer him killing Padme or some kiddies and making it look like the Jedi's fault and then not having him go full monster-mode until after he'd fallen a bit, lost the fight on Mustafar and got mutilated would've made more sense.

It went - egotist -> asshole -> genuine dyed in the wool lunatic in the space of about 10 minutes.

It should've set the whole fall up over the course of the entire movie and gone for a far more tragic arc then "actually, he's just psychopath".

Realt Dearg Sec

Great call, loved that show.