BIM Deep Sea Salmon Farm Aquaculture and Foreshore Licence Applications (T9/489A & B)

mp22

If I may point out that the location of the blooms in Bantry Bay and dunmannus bays are on top of the mussel farms,as much as the salmon farms.

downwiththatsor

I am unaware of negative water quality impacts if mussel farming, mussels are filter feeders and phytoplankton are part of their diet hence the negative affect of these blooms on their subsequent edibility.
There are extensive mussel farms in Castlemaine Harbour with no recorded blooms.

Regards

Zzippy

I don't think there is a causative link between salmon farms and the Karenia bloom from last year, much as it would strengthen the case against them and that would make me happy. These blooms have occurred periodically in the past, and are far too large both in terms of geographic spread, and impact, to be caused by local inputs of nutrients. The algal bloom tends to start offshore, and then drift into inshore areas - as such it is more of an oceanic event. That said, large local inputs of nutrients may increase algal growth and artifically extend the impact of the blooms on a local scale. There are no salmon farms in Galway Bay (yet) but it was badly hit last year by the bloom. Similarly, north Donegal was not badly hit, yet has quite a number of salmon farms.

On another note, An Tasice have now come out and issued a statement that BIM should withdraw the application, citing the bias of the minister. Taken from the Irish Angler fb page (probably copied from a press source but it wasn't cited, so I've copied direct from fb):

To maintain fish farm proposal would waste taxpayers' money

An Taisce - the National Trust for Ireland, has said that a failure by BIM to withdraw its proposal for a 456-hectare fish farm proposal between the Aran Islands and the Co Clare coast would waste taxpayers' money.
An Taisce said “It was now clear that Minister Coveney, the relevant decision-maker, was biased in favour of the proposal. Therefore any decision by him to approve the plan would be fundamentally flawed."
An Taisce referred to statements made by Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív at the weekend, in which the FF deputy outlined the circumstances in which Minister Coveney conveyed his support for the proposal to Mr Ó Cuív.
"BIM has no option now but to withdraw its application", observed James Nix, An Taisce's Policy Director, adding that to "continue to plough public money into promoting this proposal would be a gross misuse of taxpayers' funds".
Mr Nix added that the proposal had now been completely compromised from a procedural standpoint, as well as the substantive points weighing against it.
"While it is not the intention, the reality is that such fish farms become giant incubation centres for sea lice, not only to the detriment of fish inside the sub-surface cages, but also wild salmon passing in nearby waters.
Jeopardising wild salmon in Ireland, together with the associated tourism sector, for the sake of caged fish proposals which carry no tourism spin-off never added up", he observed. "Norway has stopped promoting the type of fish farm proposed by BIM", he added.

danbrosnan

Zzippy wrote: »

I don't think there is a causative link between salmon farms and the Karenia bloom from last year, much as it would strengthen the case against them and that would make me happy. These blooms have occurred periodically in the past, and are far too large both in terms of geographic spread, and impact, to be caused by local inputs of nutrients. The algal bloom tends to start offshore, and then drift into inshore areas - as such it is more of an oceanic event. That said, large local inputs of nutrients may increase algal growth and artifically extend the impact of the blooms on a local scale. There are no salmon farms in Galway Bay (yet) but it was badly hit last year by the bloom. Similarly, north Donegal was not badly hit, yet has quite a number of salmon farms.

On another note, An Tasice have now come out and issued a statement that BIM should withdraw the application, citing the bias of the minister. Taken from the Irish Angler fb page (probably copied from a press source but it wasn't cited, so I've copied direct from fb):

Take for example cromane with a huge mussel industry, as far as the map shows there was no bloom... like i am studying this subject at the moment but i still don't know much about it, but from a logical point of view, the map shows blooms in areas where fish farms are... its that simple, and how the marine harvest pr people will turn peoples minds is by over analysing it and stating loads of different points which really have no relevance.

Look i have said this before they wouldn't put a fish farm in the moy estuary or in Waterville...

It should be the same all over this country... We have native salmon, fresh water, why not stock hundreds of rivers along the west coast, repopulate them and have a commercial netting when they return..

Real wild salmon... That would be the right thing to do...:mad:

danbrosnan

Will somebody correct me, i don't got a list of every fish farm in the country, but i know there is some in kenmare bay and various other places around the country, now it does look like to me by going with the map, that where the map states there was blooms they are in the area of fish farms??!!!

Is this correct i don't know!?

Auldloon

danbrosnan wrote: »

Take for example cromane with a huge mussel industry, as far as the map shows there was no bloom... like i am studying this subject at the moment but i still don't know much about it, but from a logical point of view, the map shows blooms in areas where fish farms are... its that simple, and how the marine harvest pr people will turn peoples minds is by over analysing it and stating loads of different points which really have no relevance.

Look i have said this before they wouldn't put a fish farm in the moy estuary or in Waterville...

It should be the same all over this country... We have native salmon, fresh water, why not stock hundreds of rivers along the west coast, repopulate them and have a commercial netting when they return..

Real wild salmon... That would be the right thing to do...:mad:

Where do you propose to get these salmon to stock rivers? What size do you stock at and what returns do you expect?

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Take for example cromane with a huge mussel industry, as far as the map shows there was no bloom... like i am studying this subject at the moment but i still don't know much about it, but from a logical point of view, the map shows blooms in areas where fish farms are... its that simple, and how the marine harvest pr people will turn peoples minds is by over analysing it and stating loads of different points which really have no relevance.

Look i have said this before they wouldn't put a fish farm in the moy estuary or in Waterville...

It should be the same all over this country... We have native salmon, fresh water, why not stock hundreds of rivers along the west coast, repopulate them and have a commercial netting when they return..

Real wild salmon... That would be the right thing to do...:mad:

Dan, I know the bloom on the map does coincide with a lot of salmon farming areas, but if you're studying science you will learn that correlation does not always equal causation. The algal bloom started offshore and drifted into the west coast, which happens to contain all the salmon farms. Nutrient inputs from farms may exacerbate blooms in local bays, but there is no way they could cause a bloom that size that extended for hundreds of miles.

As for Waterville, there is a salmon farm just a few miles round the corner at Deenish Island. They got permission last year to increase production capacity.

Salmon stocks are at a low enough ebb at the moment. Sea survival is the issue. Stocking rivers will have very little effect on boosting stocks, since the problem is at sea, and most rivers have a certain carrying capacity - they can only produce so many smolts. There is already a commercial fishery (draft netting) on river estuaries where the scientists deem the stock level is high enough for a surplus to be harvested.

danbrosnan

Zzippy wrote: »

Dan, I know the bloom on the map does coincide with a lot of salmon farming areas, but if you're studying science you will learn that correlation does not always equal causation. The algal bloom started offshore and drifted into the west coast, which happens to contain all the salmon farms. Nutrient inputs from farms may exacerbate blooms in local bays, but there is no way they could cause a bloom that size that extended for hundreds of miles.

As for Waterville, there is a salmon farm just a few miles round the corner at Deenish Island. They got permission last year to increase production capacity.

Salmon stocks are at a low enough ebb at the moment. Sea survival is the issue. Stocking rivers will have very little effect on boosting stocks, since the problem is at sea, and most rivers have a certain carrying capacity - they can only produce so many smolts. There is already a commercial fishery (draft netting) on river estuaries where the scientists deem the stock level is high enough for a surplus to be harvested.

I completely disagree with you, and here is my reason, lets take what i know, you say that certain rivers, take a certain capacity and thats very true, and that stocking spate rivers on the dingle peninsula would not produce results, i believe it would, all we can do on this island, is worry about how we protect our salmon in our waters, hundreds apon hundreds of spate rivers along our west coast have no protection, no hatcheries, no future...

You say that they already give commercial licences for salmon in estuaries where there is significant numbers of salmon running, what about the river Feale in north kerry... 1000 SALMON RETURNING LAST YEAR IN JUNE COUNTED ON THE FISH COUNTER, the river was granted, catch and release for the anglers and then as far as i know there was licenses granted to commercially fish for wild atlantic salmon entering the Feale through the Cashen...

You said there was a license granted for extra capacity for a fish farm at dinnish, i would think this would have no effect on the waterville system, as it is a allot more then a few miles from it, i cycle the ring of kerry every year and trust me its a good distance, the fish farm is not in direct obstruction of the waterville system, but take the kerry backwater...

The kerry blackwater river is closed this year, i can never remember that river ever been closed before, obviously the stocks in the river are a way down on previous years... a magnificent river years ago... guess what, the fish farm is in direct obstruction to that river...

Our problem ere in Ireland is that we forget about what we have, and completely ignore our beautiful small rivers and lakes... the rivers like the Lee in Cork, Cork Blackwater, the Slaney, the Laune, the Moy, get all the investment and protection...

Here are rivers on the dingle peninsula that do hold salmon and if protected the whole peninsula could be a salmon conservation area for the world to admire...

Fhenonagh,
Owenmore,
Anascual,
Lispole river,
Aughcashla,
Scorid,
Miltown,
Emlagh,
Glenahoo.

There is also countless lochs that hold sea trout and salmon, loch slat is a prime example, loch caum above it is stocked with rainbows, when the lake below has salmon and sea trout running it. Last year i counted three salmon on the bank caught by a local angler, fresh fish... The Aughcasla river and loch slat has no protection or management.

All these rivers are completely forgotten about....

I am hopefully only starting to study this concept and if all goes well this year will be studying it full time next year untill 2016...

_Puma_

Listening to Minister's question today and Deputy O Cuiv raised the issue of the minster acting as judge and jury in his own court with regard to the application. He refuted this and infromed the deputy O Cuiv that there is an appeal authority in place.

When deputy O Cuiv raised the Moratorium in the National Development the minister exclaimed "there is no moratorium" and refused to answer any further questions.

Now this is really worrying. The minster is either unaware of the issues surrounding open pen Salmon farms or is being fed wrong information from his advisors, who include of course BIM. This or he is just pushing the application through without even properly considering the application.

Does anyone know who this Appeal authority is in regard to aquaculture applications?

Zzippy

_Puma_ wrote: »

Listening to Minister's question today and Deputy O Cuiv raised the issue of the minster acting as judge and jury in his own court with regard to the application. He refuted this and infromed the deputy O Cuiv that there is an appeal authority in place.

When deputy O Cuiv raised the Moratorium in the National Development the minister exclaimed "there is no moratorium" and refused to answer any further questions.

Now this is really worrying. The minster is either unaware of the issues surrounding open pen Salmon farms or is being fed wrong information from his advisors, who include of course BIM. This or he is just pushing the application through without even properly considering the application.

Does anyone know who this Appeal authority is in regard to aquaculture applications?

The appeal authority is the Aquaculture License Appeals Board (www.alab.ie), most of whom are involved in some way in the aquaculture industry, and all of whom are appointed by the Minister. Independent, huh!

_Puma_

Quiet amazing how applications like this are handled in this country. Look at the UK where an Independent body is brought in to look at these kind of things.

O Cuiv really cornered the Minster on the issue and his impartiability when he said that in the Autumn he publicly gave his support to these application's from BIM at a Farming convention in Claremorris. Of course minster Coveny wouldn't respond to this.

All and all it did not sound like the minister is going to make a decision on the issue in the next few weeks... or is this another ploy from the minister to let the uproar die down and then push it through.

I cannot see how they are going to get this through though with the Moratorium on salmon farms in place from the Irish Seafood National Program 2007-2013.

danbrosnan

Read on facebook there that a statement released by an taisce has stated that it believes that the minister is biased towards favour for the fish farm and if the application by bim was to go ahead it would be fundamentally flawed and a gross waste of tax payers money...


Whoooooo hhhhooooooo.....

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Read on facebook there that a statement released by an taisce has stated that it believes that the minister is biased towards favour for the fish farm and if the application by bim was to go ahead it would be fundamentally flawed and a gross waste of tax payers money...


Whoooooo hhhhooooooo.....

Don't celebrate just yet. The dogs in the street have known that for months, but it doesn't seem to bother Coveney a bit. He was questioned by Eamon O'Cuiv in the Dail yesterday and all he could say was "there is an appeals body". Basically, shut up, if you don't like my decision feel free to appeal it...

Edit: Here's the text of the Dail debate. Its a bit long...

Aquaculture Licences

104. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine Information on Simon Coveney Zoom on Simon Coveney if he considers it appropriate for him to be the decision maker in relation to an aquaculture licence application received from a State agency, Bord Iascaigh Mhara, that operates under the aegis of his Department and which is obligated to operate within the framework of his policy, and in the circumstances in which he has stated his support for the project; if he intends asking Bord Iascaigh Mhara to withdraw the application pending a change in the law to ensure modern practice in relation to the issuing of aquaculture licences; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15063/13]

Deputy Simon Coveney: An application by Bord Iascaigh Mhara for an aquaculture licence for the cultivation of finfish near Inis Oírr in Galway Bay was received by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine last year. The application and its accompanying environmental impact statement are being considered under the provisions of the Fisheries (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Foreshore Act 1933. The role of the Minister as the decision maker with regard to aquaculture licensing is clearly set out in the legislation. I am entirely satisfied that my role in that regard is not compromised in any way. In my statutory role as decision maker, it would not be appropriate for me to comment further on this application, which is under assessment by the Department in accordance with the statutory process.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: This question relates to the suitability of the process, rather than to the adjudication on the application. Can the Minister confirm the date on which the application was received from Bord Iascaigh Mhara?

Would the Minister agree that, both privately and at a very large public meeting of farmers held in Claremorris late last autumn, he clearly indicated his support for this project?

Deputy Simon Coveney: No.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Will the Minister clarify whether it is the policy of his Department to encourage the type of development now engaged in by Bord Iascaigh Mhara, BIM? Would he not agree this clearly compromises the Department's ability to make an objective decision on this application? Would he not also agree it is BIM's obligation to carry out Government policy and, as I have said, ensure that the Government policy is clearly in favour of the project?

Deputy Simon Coveney: I have been a bit surprised by the Deputy's commentary on this issue. I have made it clear on many occasions, long before this application was made to my Department and since, that the issue of deep water aquaculture does provide an exciting potential for stimulus, growth and job creation for our seafood sector, particularly along the west coast. However, I have been very careful, both before and since this application was made, not to specifically support any one project or any one location for an application, because it would not be appropriate to do so. I have received strong advice on that and have adhered to that advice. However, this does not mean that I, as a Minister who is responsible for finding ways to create jobs, particularly in isolated parts of Ireland that do not have many other options or choices, would not look at ways in which we can get more out of our natural resources in a sustainable way. That is entirely different from making an assessment on an individual application, which I have a legal obligation to do in an independent and balanced way, and which I will do on the basis of scientific advice and of looking at the responses that have come from the public during the public consultation process.

It is my job to then weigh up the concerns that have been expressed, the support that has been given and the scientific advice from scientists in the Marine Institute and elsewhere, and to then make a balanced decision. If that decision is being challenged, it then goes to an appeals process through the Aquaculture Licences Appeals Board system, which has been in place for many years. When the Deputy was a Minister, he would have understood how it worked. He should also understand that when an application is under consideration by the Department, it is not appropriate for the Minister to talk about the specifics of the application concerned.

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: That is why I was surprised to hear the Minister made specific comment on aquaculture in Galway Bay at a large meeting of farmers in Claremorris held late last autumn. Would he not agree that if he grants the licence now, in view of the circumstances that have arisen, it is likely to be subject to legal challenge? Would he not agree that it would be much more satisfactory for BIM to withdraw the application and for the law to be changed to put the issue of licences at arm's length from the Minister, which now happens in most cases? For example, with regard to oil permits and the like, which used to be subject to ministerial consents, during the term of the previous Government they were all moved to an arm's length position from the Minister, so the Minister did not become a judge in his own court in regard to applications. Would he not consider this a much more satisfactory process that would engender much more public confidence?

The Minister must note, for example, that Galway County Council last night passed a resolution opposing the proposal as it stands, and, therefore, we need public confidence in the process. Would he not agree it would be much better to introduce legislation transferring this function of granting or not granting the licence to either the EPA or An Bord Pleanála, so the Minister could be actively involved in policy formulation and policy promotion, and where somebody independent would look at the specific proposals and give an independent judgment on that?

Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív: Would the Minister agree that unless he does that, this will all be open to a legal challenge that would be likely to succeed?

Deputy Simon Coveney: No, I do not agree with the Deputy. He seems to be the one trying to stoke this up in terms of challenging its appropriateness. He was the first person to raise this matter. Nobody else raised it with me. It is not the case that everybody else has been calling for this and the Deputy is speaking for them. He seems to be the one trying to make a political football out of this. That is a decision for the Deputy to make.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: I ask the Minister to conclude.

Deputy Simon Coveney: My job is to get on with what I am legally obliged to do which is to give due consideration in a robust but fair way to an application for a significant piece of infrastructure in water and I will do that. I will accept all of the advice I am supposed to get in that process and then make an independent and informed decision using my judgment as best I can. That is my responsibility. If people do not agree with that procedure or decision, they will have an opportunity to appeal it to the Aquaculture Licences Appeals Board, ALAB, which is just as independent as An Bord Pleanála. Deputy Ó Cuív seems to be suggesting that we should hand this over to An Bord Pleanála. ALAB is the equivalent of An Bord Pleanála for licensing of aquaculture projects so I am not sure what the Deputy is getting at.

danbrosnan

I cant stand these people!

_Puma_

After coming across this video from Prime Time in 2003. Very revealing Documentary on the the practices in Salmon farming in Ireland and our regulation of the industry.

As far as I can see very little has changed in terms of regulation, with Sea lice infestations increasing on farms around the country up to the latest figures published in 2011. On top of this there is now solid scientific evidence that sea lice infestations emanating from salmon farms effect wild fish. The only bit of regulation that occurred was a moratorium of new farms in 2007 due to infestations. The Minister now looks set to ignore this moratorium.

Now to bring this all into perspective, the farm in Galway Bay will be 30 times the size of the current farms off the West Coast.

downwiththatsor

_Puma_ wrote: »

After coming across this video from Prime Time in 2003. Very revealing Documentary on the the practices in Salmon farming in Ireland and our regulation of the industry.

As far as I can see very little has changed in terms of regulation, with Sea lice infestations increasing on farms around the country up to the latest figures published in 2011. On top of this there is now solid scientific evidence that sea lice infestations emanating from salmon farms effect wild fish. The only bit of regulation that occurred was a moratorium of new farms in 2007 due to infestations. The Minister now looks set to ignore this moratorium.

Now to bring this all into perspective, the farm in Galway Bay will be 30 times the size of the current farms off the West Coast.

Excellent doccumentary, thanks for sharing. One would think that Dr Paddy Gargans findings on high sea lice levels on sea trout only being found on irish rivers where salmon farms operate would be damning.

_Puma_

Anyone see the piece on Prime Time last night? After watching it I thought that the guy from the IFA in the audience looked very familiar. In fact he is the same guy that was implicated in the documentary from 2003.

Zzippy

_Puma_ wrote: »

Anyone see the piece on Prime Time last night? After watching it I thought that the guy from the IFA in the audience looked very familiar. In fact he is the same guy that was implicated in the documentary from 2003.

That's Richie Flynn, IFA aquaculture rep. On prime Time in 2003 he was caught out over illegal dumping of dead salmon in a bog, which he tried to defend.
Worth a watch, the same issues with sea lice still apply. http://vimeo.com/51718073