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So the final verdict: to windows 8 or not to windows 8, that is the question

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    #62
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    Thanks for that, I will give it a go. I will try the Nvidia beta drivers and try to eradicate the last traces of norton crapware.

    I think that it also shows that W8 was not really ready for release, the amount of effort required to approach parity of performance on a pure O/S /GUI level does not bode well for its future acceptance by people who may actually have to use W8 to get work done.

    So my answer to the OP is that even with newer hardware W8 is not an upgrade compared to a Win7 system.


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    #63
    Allyall
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    I came to this forum to write an essay, about why i'm getting rid of Windows 8. I saw this thread, and i just couldn't be bothered.
    I'm getting rid of it. It is as frustrating as windows vista was at the beginning.
    I'm in the middle of tearing my hair out.. There's not an emoticon to show how F*****G annoyed i am with it.
    I can't roll back programs. If a program runs with an error, you don't get that error again, and the program just won't run!!
    Uninstall as much as you like, use Revo, remove every last file/reg key. Makes no difference. Have to go back in to system, dismiss the warnings, remove the reg key, reinstall.

    Portable programs don't run. If they do once, they won't twice.
    Rendering a USB key with a load on it, useless.

    iTunes.. GAAAHHH. Removed latest version, installed 10.0.1.22 error. Compatability mode isn't worth anything when the main OS is still dictating whether or not to let it run..

    Goodbye Windows 8.... i F***ing hate you.

    HAYTE!


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    #64
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,386 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I've been running it on the tablet for ages now but this weekend I'll be buying it for the main PC, so hopefully (you heard me) I will run into some of these problems and figure out how to iron them out. For science.

    Got a black friday deal on 8 Pro: $55. Not gonna find it lower. Set myself aside a copy at the till I'll be handcuffed to in a few hours :)


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    #65
    Allyall
    Registered Users Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Allyall


    Overheal wrote: »
    I've been running it on the tablet for ages now but this weekend I'll be buying it for the main PC, so hopefully (you heard me) I will run into some of these problems and figure out how to iron them out. For science.

    Got a black friday deal on 8 Pro: $55. Not gonna find it lower. Set myself aside a copy at the till I'll be handcuffed to in a few hours :)

    It's been a long time since i have been this frustrated with a PC.. honestly..

    I feel nauseous. The most frustrating for me so far, has to be, if you missed an error, you will never see it again, the Program just won't run, and uninstalling it and reinstalling it does nothing.. :mad::mad:


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    #66
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    fenris wrote: »
    Thanks for that, I will give it a go. I will try the Nvidia beta drivers and try to eradicate the last traces of norton crapware.

    I think that it also shows that W8 was not really ready for release, the amount of effort required to approach parity of performance on a pure O/S /GUI level does not bode well for its future acceptance by people who may actually have to use W8 to get work done.

    So my answer to the OP is that even with newer hardware W8 is not an upgrade compared to a Win7 system.
    Allyall wrote: »
    I came to this forum to write an essay, about why i'm getting rid of Windows 8. I saw this thread, and i just couldn't be bothered.
    I'm getting rid of it. It is as frustrating as windows vista was at the beginning.
    I'm in the middle of tearing my hair out.. There's not an emoticon to show how F*****G annoyed i am with it.
    I can't roll back programs. If a program runs with an error, you don't get that error again, and the program just won't run!!
    Uninstall as much as you like, use Revo, remove every last file/reg key. Makes no difference. Have to go back in to system, dismiss the warnings, remove the reg key, reinstall.

    Portable programs don't run. If they do once, they won't twice.
    Rendering a USB key with a load on it, useless.

    iTunes.. GAAAHHH. Removed latest version, installed 10.0.1.22 error. Compatability mode isn't worth anything when the main OS is still dictating whether or not to let it run..

    Goodbye Windows 8.... i F***ing hate you.

    HAYTE!

    While I do appreciate that it's immensely frustrating to hit this kind of problem with a product for which you've paid good money...

    We're talking about a brand-new version of Windows that's barely a month old. It is a very sad reality of the market that this sort of nonsense goes with the territory, and the only way to be sure you'll avoid most of it is to wait about 6-12 months and then install it only if your hardware vendor explicitly supports it.

    (The same sorts of problem have been reported by some folks with 7, Vista and XP before them, and probably all the versions before that as well. And before anyone gets on the "bloody microsoft, nobody else does this half-assed crap", it's worth noting that similar issues come up with OS X when new versions come out as well....)


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    #67
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    The problem is not that people do not appreciate that there can be issues with new products, the problem is that this is a product that has been prematurely released to the market either without sufficient testing (unlikely) or released before the issues were resolved due to marketing pressure to meet timeline commitments.

    The sad fact is that it is viewed as not only acceptable but expected by some people to effectively act as unpaid software testers / PR representatives/apologists for a half arsed product UPDATE rushed to market.

    W8 is not a new revolutionary product that has never been seen before and therefore could be expected to have a bit of a learning curve / fine tuning process. W8 is an evolution of an existing product with an existing user base who depend on that product as part of their business process.

    This is not hobbist bedroom tinkering on the edges of the digital frontier to bring a raw concept to mainstream reality anymore.

    We are now in a situation where a functional product has been withdrawn and replaced with a less functional product in a cynical manner to drive the needs of a business/marketing model to the detriment of the customer.

    The main lesson learned from Vista seems not to have been to fix the problems before release, rather the lesson learned seems to be to get teh previous version out of circulation as quick as possible to drive the so called upgrade.


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    #68
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Fenris - I don't disagree at all that it shouldn't be acceptable to release something which doesn't work.

    What I am saying is that this is the norm. I'm pretty sure Windows 98 had similar issues ("So good they released it a second time!"). I'd imagine Windows 2000 did too (you don't get to four service packs if there weren't at least a few bugs to begin with). Windows XP I know from personal experience had them, and arguably Windows Me never got past them. We all know Vista had them, and while they were less glaring they also cropped up for Windows 7.

    Whether or not you're dealing with a complete kernel overhaul or merely a spit 'n' polish is, based on this trend, irrelevant - at best it might give you an indication of how severe the issues might be, but issues there will be whether it's an upgrade or a Revolutionary New Product.

    This also applies to OS X. You only need to go looking in the OS X forum to find the threads where people discuss all the problems they have when they upgrade to a new version OS X within weeks of its release.

    It's really rather sad, but the only way to avoid this kind of thing is to hold off your upgrade for at least six months and wait for confirmation from your hardware vendor that the new OS is explicitly supported. This has been the case for quite some time, despite the ongoing pretense by Those Bastards In Marketing that this problem has never happened because The Shiny Thing They Sell Is Just Amazing.


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    #69
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Fysh wrote: »
    It's really rather sad, but the only way to avoid this kind of thing is to hold off your upgrade for at least six months and wait for confirmation from your hardware vendor that the new OS is explicitly supported. This has been the case for quite some time, despite the ongoing pretense by Those Bastards In Marketing that this problem has never happened because The Shiny Thing They Sell Is Just Amazing.
    +1

    In the Debian world people run the 'testing' version because it is good enough. If you want really stable you have to go for a really old version.

    This also applies to BIOS updates and firmware updates for things like routers and satellite receivers and mobile phones.

    The general principle is that unless you have a problem that the update fixes or it provides new functionality that you need it's best to let the early adopters find all the gotchas.


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    #70
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭nc6000


    So just upgraded my Windows 7 PC to Windows 8 and everything seemed to go OK except now my Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer for Bluetooth doesn't seem to work. The Upgrade Advisor didn't flag this as an issue.

    Windows picks up the Microsoft Wireless Transceiver and it shows up OK in Device Manager but when I go to Add Devices it doesn't detect it.

    Anyone got any ideas?


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    #71
    WhatNowForUs?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭WhatNowForUs?


    Hi. Maybe somebody could tell me this. Would windows 8 prevent a new dell laptop from opening up. New laptop, worked on it on Thursday night, and now all that comes up is the Dell laptop logo. Is it the computer or the W8 program.


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    #72
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    The difference this time from the "MS and apple norm" is that the supply of Win7 has been cleared out to ensure a push onto W8 so that it is much more difficult to hold position on a stable release. This is probably due to the managerial embarassment caused by the the massive XP holdout when Vista was released.

    I work in telecommunications and am very au-fait with software and hardware release cycles and for that reason I know that it can be done right and that all that is needed is the corporate will to do so.

    My main point relative to the question from the OP in the thread title is that W8 is not an upgrade in anything but name and is not fit for purpose at present. Also if you wait any length of time you may find that you are stuck with W8 in its current dodgy form as Win7 is becoming increasingly difficult to source, threfore the best option if you have to rollout new machines in the near future would be to source your Win7 licenses now and but your hardware when ready.

    So W8 = no but grab a Win7 license just in case.


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    #73
    Patsy fyre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭Patsy fyre


    Hi,

    I've a Old Dell XPS running Windows Vista. Computer is 5 years old.

    Will I be able to upgrade to Windows 8 and will it work properly ?


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    #74
    200motels
    Registered Users Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭200motels


    Patsy fyre wrote: »
    Hi,

    I've a Old Dell XPS running Windows Vista. Computer is 5 years old.

    Will I be able to upgrade to Windows 8 and will it work properly ?
    It should work but why not go with 7 but if your heart is set on 8 go the their website and download the download assistant http://windows.microsoft.com/en-IE/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8


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    #75
    Patsy fyre
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,184 ✭✭✭Patsy fyre


    200motels wrote: »
    It should work but why not go with 7 but if your heart is set on 8 go the their website and download the download assistant http://windows.microsoft.com/en-IE/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8

    Cheers, downloading now, got it for 15 euro :eek:


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    #76
    200motels
    Registered Users Posts: 2,603 ✭✭✭200motels


    Patsy fyre wrote: »
    Cheers, downloading now, got it for 15 euro :eek:
    That's a great price, let me know how you get on with it.


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    #77
    nc6000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭nc6000


    nc6000 wrote: »
    So just upgraded my Windows 7 PC to Windows 8 and everything seemed to go OK except now my Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer for Bluetooth doesn't seem to work. The Upgrade Advisor didn't flag this as an issue.

    Windows picks up the Microsoft Wireless Transceiver and it shows up OK in Device Manager but when I go to Add Devices it doesn't detect it.

    Anyone got any ideas?

    I solved this by rolling back the Bluetooth driver. :)


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    #78
    BenEadir
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭BenEadir


    Guy's can anyone remind me how to set the screen picture which is presented on waking up the device? You know the one which you click on to bring up your password entry logon box?

    I've searched all the desktop settings and whilst I can find themes and desktop wallpapers as well as screen saver options I can't for the life of me find where to change the picture I originally selected to use as my wake up screen and I need to change it as it was only a temporary choice!!

    Cheers,

    Ben


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    #79
    GreenWolfe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭GreenWolfe


    BenThere wrote: »
    Guy's can anyone remind me how to set the screen picture which is presented on waking up the device? You know the one which you click on to bring up your password entry logon box?

    I've searched all the desktop settings and whilst I can find themes and desktop wallpapers as well as screen saver options I can't for the life of me find where to change the picture I originally selected to use as my wake up screen and I need to change it as it was only a temporary choice!!

    Cheers,

    Ben

    Win + C --> Settings --> Change PC Settings --> Personalise


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    #80
    BenEadir
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭BenEadir


    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    Win + C --> Settings --> Change PC Settings --> Personalise

    Cheers, that put me out of my misery!!


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    #81
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,945 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Allright gonna be putting in my order for a my new pc in a few days time and im slightly apprehensive about windows 8, ive been on vista(please dont laugh) for the past 4 years.
    Ive read all about start8 and everything but still am unsure if i should not just go for 7 as the safe bet, any advice?


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    #82
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    Patsy fyre wrote: »
    Cheers, downloading now, got it for 15 euro :eek:


    Linux is for free, and if you move from XP to Win8 there will be not big difference if you move to linux.


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    #83
    Adyx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,997 ✭✭✭Adyx


    zom wrote: »
    Linux is for free, and if you move from XP to Win8 there will be not big difference if you move to linux.
    Unless you're a gamer or musician/producer etc. I think it's safe to say Win8 is worth the €15 or even €30 upgrade fee.


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    #84
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Allright gonna be putting in my order for a my new pc in a few days time and im slightly apprehensive about windows 8, ive been on vista(please dont laugh) for the past 4 years.
    Ive read all about start8 and everything but still am unsure if i should not just go for 7 as the safe bet, any advice?

    Go for windows 8 if you can get it for the upgrade price (€30). I'm using it with start8 so, I don't even need to deal or see metro. I've had no hassles with 8.


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    #85
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,945 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Go for windows 8 if you can get it for the upgrade price (€30). I'm using it with start8 so, I don't even need to deal or see metro. I've had no hassles with 8.

    Im starting from scratch on a new rig and putting a brand new os on an ssd so the price isnt an issue as the site im buying from the difference is 1 euro between the 2 versions


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    #86
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,386 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Allright gonna be putting in my order for a my new pc in a few days time and im slightly apprehensive about windows 8
    Frankly this has been my experience with customers and windows 8.

    "Dont you have ANYTHING with 7 on it? I've been here playing with this thing for HALF AN HOUR [really: 8 minutes] and I ABSOLUTELY HATE IT."

    /me goes over, clicks Desktop button

    "*Ghasp* Oh thank goodness! Thank goodness. OK I'll take one."

    (actual incident)


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    #87
    uncle_sam_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭uncle_sam_ie


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Im starting from scratch on a new rig and putting a brand new os on an ssd so the price isnt an issue as the site im buying from the difference is 1 euro between the 2 versions

    Just upgrade from vista and use the key.


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    #88
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    zom wrote: »
    Linux is for free, and if you move from XP to Win8 there will be not big difference if you move to linux.
    *puts on mod hat*

    Please read the charter about off topic advocacy.


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    #89
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,945 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    uncle_sam_ie wrote: »
    Just upgrade from vista and use the key.

    Not a chance im doing that my winsxs file is about 29gigs, god knows what will happen if i upgrade on top of this heap of junk


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    #90
    GreenWolfe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭GreenWolfe


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Not a chance im doing that my winsxs file is about 29gigs, god knows what will happen if i upgrade on top of this heap of junk

    You can't do an in-place upgrade from Vista or XP anyway, it's only allowed with 7. You're better off backing up everything and installing from scratch.

    It wouldn't hurt to google around and check that drivers are available for your hardware.


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    #91
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,945 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    You can't do an in-place upgrade from Vista or XP anyway, it's only allowed with 7. You're better off backing up everything and installing from scratch.

    It wouldn't hurt to google around and check that drivers are available for your hardware.

    Im backing up everything i can to an external, all the hardware is gonna be new except my 1 year old graphics card so no issues with drivers, all i want to know is if windows 8 is as awful to use for games and such as everyone says and should i just get windows 7?


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