Best secondary captain in TNG and others for lower ranked officers

nyarlothothep

To be more precise in any trek show can this question be asked. Effectively I limit myself to TNG and TOS because I know little about DS9 but I leave that open for others. Imo Data would make an excellent captain. He is miles ahead of anyone in terms of strategy and intelligence, he ran circles around the Romulans in that episode and was way ahead of even Picard in that tactical manouvre, he also outsmarted the whole bridge crew when he visited Noonien Soong. Basically Data would make a badass military captain, he would be 10 steps ahead of everyone else. Worf was good at acting authoritatively, ditto for Riker who had more diplomacy but I have to admire Data's ruthless efficiency and genius.

Kirby

If all it takes is military precision and intelligence, than why man the ships at all? Why not just let the computer do it's thing? Intuition and inter-personal skills are important and Data had none. He would also rub people up the wrong way very easily, as was evidenced in that episode.

Frankly, I think pre-emotion chip Data would make a poor captain.

Of all the characters, I think Kira made a great leader. Especially in the later seasons when she mellowed a little. I also think that T'pol post tellium D would have made a good captain. Logic fuelled yes, but also had emotional understanding.

Kurn

But, Data seemed to more and more recognise when he rubbed people the wrong way as time went on, he was also able to stand up for himself in that epsiode with some officer not taking him seriously. A spot as first officer for a while, and he'd be well able - if he was still alive (B4 was such a pile of bull cra#)

Kira, I agree towards the end, at the start she was a bit crazy and seemed to love to hate, but I really liked her character, plus she's great at reporting on the weather

nyarlothothep

The problem with Data rubbing people the wrong way was 90% to do with their prejudice against him as an android and for being a bit different. Sure he wouldn't exactly be as socially flatulent as Riker but that could also be a good thing. Data did exhibit intuition though, to the point that Picard said 'nicely played.' A computer wouldn't be able to replicate that.

Kiith

If Riker stopped banging anything with legs, he'd probably be my choice (though then he wouldn't really be Riker :P). He showed a few times that he had what it took and was a likable officer. Data would be good, especially later in the series.

IvySlayer

Worf was pretty decent in DS9 in command of the Defiant.

Pride Fighter

Lt. Sulu from TOS.

A softly spoken lieutenant who occasionally prances around while fencing.

Goes to a complete bad ass as Captain of the Excelsior.

Love the scene with the structural integrity of the Excelsior is at maximum and the ship is shaking its going so fast. Sulu says increase speed. His helmsman says we're exceeding maximum warp any faster and the ship will fly apart. Sulu says FLY HER APART.

Love that scene, portrays Sulu brilliantly. You go away thinking so what if Kirk is retiring and the Enterprise-A is being decommissioned. The federation is safe as long as Sulu is Captain.

Indricotherium

Chakotay and his spirit animals.

He's great in any of the myriad of situations that involve going asleep for a while.

He'd be a great captain.

Myrddin

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Love that scene, portrays Sulu brilliantly. You go away thinking so what if Kirk is retiring and the Enterprise-A is being decommissioned. The federation is safe as long as Sulu is Captain.

He had a badass, old school legend of a teacher

downwithpeace

Miles O'Brien, good character with lots of experience in different roles and he's both liked and respected by those above and below him in rank.

Only issue I can think of is he wouldn't want it.

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

Chakotay and his spirit animals.

He's great in any of the myriad of situations that involve going asleep for a while.

He'd be a great captain.

In fairness he's a skilled diplomat, a strong leader, & has a good sense of ethics. His only downfall would be he can be overly passionate at times.

Data would make an excellent Captain, & its not a case of why not do away with man & let computers do it all, Data has been proven to be alive, a sentient being, & does indeed have a gut instinct as he well demonstrated against the Romulan fleet that time {Redemption}.

Riker too would be a strong candidate, as would Cnl Keira.

Indricotherium

The M-5 Multitronic system

helimachoptor

Have to say as commander of the defiant Worf was never as gung ho as I wanted him to be

Myrddin

helimachoptor wrote: »

Have to say as commander of the defiant Worf was never as gung ho as I wanted him to be

Probably why he'd make a fine Captain. He was ale to put his warrior instincts aside & focus on his duty...no easy feat for a klingon

downwithpeace

helimachoptor wrote: »

Have to say as commander of the defiant Worf was never as gung ho as I wanted him to be

EnterNow wrote: »

Probably why he'd make a fine Captain. He was ale to put his warrior instincts aside & focus on his duty...no easy feat for a klingon

Part of the reason I picked O'Brien was due to what he said to Worf in DS9, Worf wanted the engineers to hurry up and fix the Defiant and was fairly gung ho Worf about it so O'Brien pulled him a side and passed on some tips for getting the most out of your crew while still showing your in command.

They would have made an interesting Captain and second officer.

Myrddin

Aye at that stage, Worf was still fairly new to Command & O'Brien with his experience was able to pass on some knowledge to Worf. Nice little moment in the episode 'Starship Down' that was

Indricotherium

EnterNow wrote: »

Probably why he'd make a fine Captain. He was ale to put his warrior instincts aside & focus on his duty...no easy feat for a klingon

Are you joking??

He went off to save his bird instead of completing a mission.

Defo not meant for command.

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

Are you joking??

He went off to save his bird instead of completing a mission.

Defo not meant for command.

Are we listing mistakes that characters made now? Because by that logic, I could rule out every captain we've seen.

nyarlothothep

In fairness Worf had a lot of mental episodes, for example when he went into a religious fervour about Kahless. However it's interesting that if you recall the histories of all these characters across the shows, they're involved in derelictions of duty all the time. Data for example was incredibly unpredictable, as an android he could be fundamentally influenced/altered and when he went into evil mode, combined with a lack of emotions, he was the most dangerous person onboard the enterprise. It would be cool to compare characters across the series to see which one would be the most stable/reliable. My vote would probably go to Troi, useless as she was she didn't have too many psychotic episodes which endangered the entire crew. Or O' Brien. The crew of TOS were meant to have been insane.

Indricotherium

EnterNow wrote: »

Are we listing mistakes that characters made now? Because by that logic, I could rule out every captain we've seen.

That episode closes with Sisko telling him that he will probably never get a command becasue of the incident.

helimachoptor

Indricotherium wrote: »

Are you joking??

He went off to save his bird instead of completing a mission.

Defo not meant for command.

Always bugged me that he was marked as "not captain material" after that.

Worf's sense of loyalty was second to none to the people he was friends with.

If that was the Chief, Bashir, Odo etc etc (anyone except from Munez!)
He would have aborted the mission, fought through a battalion of Jem Ha'dar to get them home.

Sometimes they mission is secondary to the people on the mission.

knucklehead6

helimachoptor wrote: »

Sometimes they mission is secondary to the people on the mission.

Not according to Riker

Mission
Ship
Crew

helimachoptor

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Not according to Riker

Mission
Ship
Crew

Nah.. sure what if your mission is to deliver a batch of self sealing stem bolts?

And your faced with de pressurising the cargo bay to put out a fire to save a crew member..

Personally I think the only way i would do something like the doc did in VOY like close a hatch on someone would be if i didnt then a lot more people would die.

Slightly OT, but when i was younger I seen a guy die pretty much in front of me after being hit by a car, he survived for a few mins. Watching that happen to a stranger is tough, however watching it happen to a friend/wife or whatever would be next to impossible no matter what the mission is.


Now in saying that.. if the option was to save Dax and potentially put 20 people in immediate danger.. then i'd chose the 20 people.

Sorry i'm rambling :pac::pac:

Myrddin

Indricotherium wrote: »

That episode closes with Sisko telling him that he will probably never get a command becasue of the incident.

Yeah I'm aware of that. Do you want examples of actions every other Captain took which would rule them out for command too?

Worf captained the Defiant many times, he has huge experience, made mistakes, learned from them, & has the respect from everyone who served under him.

Picard
Riker
Sisko
Keira
Janeway
Chakotay
O'Brien...in fact every single character on this thread has made mistakes, or put themselves ahead of the mission at one time or another. Quoting one mistake made by Worf & saying he's unfit for command is ludicrous. In fact, some might say the blame lies with Sisko in that example, a couple in fact should have never been sent on a solo mission like that

helimachoptor

Enter.. you need to take into account a lot of those are captains already, not in starfleet or enlisted :pac:

Worf was singled out by Sisko as Starfleet had said in their comment on his report it was very unlikely Worf would be getting a command of his own.

This is what irks a lot of people!

Kiith

nyarlothothep wrote: »

My vote would probably go to Troi, useless as she was she didn't have too many psychotic episodes which endangered the entire crew.

I dunno, when she lost her telepathic abilities she turned into a bit of a moody bitch.

So normal for a female captain then! :pac: (i kid, i kid!)

Myrddin

helimachoptor wrote: »

Enter.. you need to take into account a lot of those are captains already, not in starfleet or enlisted :pac

Being a Captain already though doesn't mean you can throw duty out the window, as is being used in the argument here against Worf. And despite some of them not being enlisted, it doesn't mean they're not in Command situations. Rank is superfluous here, if someone is being ruled out for Command based on a past mistake, it should rule them all out because they've all had personal moments/disobeyed orders/put themselves ahead of a mission or shown disregard at one point or another

Kirby

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Not according to Riker

Mission
Ship
Crew

I always thought this was an odd sentiment. The ship is an inanimate object. It is not worth the life of a single person.

Now, he might argue that by "ship" he means the crew aboard it....but surely that just underlines the point that the crew is the important component here?

My list would be

Crew
Mission
Ship.

A ship can be rebuilt. A person cannot. To get serious for a second ,a true leader puts the lives of those under his command ahead of an order from somebody sitting in a chair far, far away. He may not end up the decorated leader, or the promoted leader.....but he is the better leader.

Merch

Kirby wrote: »

I always thought this was an odd sentiment. The ship is an inanimate object. It is not worth the life of a single person.

Now, he might argue that by "ship" he means the crew aboard it....but surely that just underlines the point that the crew is the important component here?

My list would be

Crew
Mission
Ship.

A ship can be rebuilt. A person cannot. To get serious for a second ,a true leader puts the lives of those under his command ahead of an order from somebody sitting in a chair far, far away. He may not end up the decorated leader, or the promoted leader.....but he is the better leader.

even that order cant be right
mission cant be ahead of ship, it means the ship could be jepordised by the mission, then the crew would be jepordised.

Not easy to replace crew or ship, mission cant be done without either

Unless its a suicide mission
so
crew
ship
mission

Kirby

Merch wrote: »

even that order cant be right
mission cant be ahead of ship, it means the ship could be jepordised by the mission, then the crew would be jepordised.

Not easy to replace crew or ship, mission cant be done without either

Unless its a suicide mission
so
crew
ship
mission

You took that too literally. As in if you have to sacrifice the ship for the mission, you do it. The ship can be replaced and the mission could be important. Obviously because the crew is the most important aspect, you beam them off first.

Myrddin

The ship needs to be protected at all costs, the technology & information aboard it could be used to cost the lives of many many people, should any of it fall into enemy hands.

All that technical information, security information, & tactical information if lost to an enemy could be very costly. Look what Soran was able to do with one little piece of technical information