Suspension for gross mis-conduct at work

Kaipa

Hi guys,

I work in a call centre for a big retail store, recently (Tues 30th Oct) I was pulled up by manager and was taken into a meeting room regarding abandoning calls. They have been monitoring my performance for quite some time now and have found out I've been cutting calls or putting customers on mute for long periods of time in order to hit my stats. When being questioned about this my responses were based on me lying out of panic, saying I was having technical issues with my phone (I think it's quite clear to them also that I was lying).

I have been suffering from depression for quite some time now and this has definitely affected my performance at work - however I've felt uncomfortable to disclose this information with anyone there. I'm already on a final warning from work as I was caught with my mobile phone in the office (my reason then was that I had issues at home - due to this it clouded my better judgement).

Now I'm currently at home awaiting for them to invite me back in next week after further investigations for a meeting. Most people who have ever come back for a meeting after suspension have got fired so I'm not very confident - however I'm not sure whether being honest with them now at this stage will help my case or if anything make it worse as that would show I'd lied. I could get a doctors note etc if need be, I know I've made a terrible mistake but is there any way of salvaging this?

Cheers

John

Starokan

Look it cant do any harm to be honest, whether it will affect the outcome or not is yet to be determined. If you were on a final warning already it does not look to good obviously.

Large companies adhere very very strictly to legal hr guidelines, I would suggest contacting someone in HR , making your case and then see what comes of it. Good luck , I hope you get another chance.

Taltos

Moved from PI.
Please note that the Work Problems charter now applies.

Thanks
Taltos

Eoin

A lot of people here have said that they would not disclose details of their depression to their boss, and they probably have good reason.

On the flip side, employers must make allowances for people with depression. It's treated as a disability in Ireland, which means that they must make reasonable allowances to help you. If you were to disclose this to them, it would obviously help if you could tell them what they need to do to try and accommodate you.

Kaipa

Surely if I told my manager it would be strictly confidential? The fact of the matter is though there must be numerous managers who are aware of my suspension so if I disclosed it at this stage they'd all find out.

I just want to know if I'm wasting my time at this stage admitting that I lied to them and that the reasons I've not been performing properly is because of my depression AFTER I've committed the deeds. I know I should of spoke to someone about it way before this but I'm not the kind of person who wants to discuss personal matters like this at work. I'm my own worst enemy in many respects...

MarkR

Difficult one for the employer. Could you guarantee it won't happen again if you are reinstated? To be blunt, if you're not taking calls, and taking calls is your job, you're a liability to the company.

I've worked in call centres before, and monitored calls for just such a reason. I think that as you are on a final warning you may run into trouble. Does your previous warning have any expiry, or limitation to what it covers? A similar issue to your earlier warning for example would result in dismissal, whereas a separate issue might be treated on it's own?

Eoin

Kaipa wrote: »

Surely if I told my manager it would be strictly confidential? The fact of the matter is though there must be numerous managers who are aware of my suspension so if I disclosed it at this stage they'd all find out.

You'd hope it's all strictly confidential and that only the people who need to know will know. People have posted here saying that they would not disclose it, but other people probably would/

Kaipa wrote: »

I just want to know if I'm wasting my time at this stage admitting that I lied to them and that the reasons I've not been performing properly is because of my depression AFTER I've committed the deeds. I know I should of spoke to someone about it way before this but I'm not the kind of person who wants to discuss personal matters like this at work. I'm my own worst enemy in many respects...

Not taking it into account, even after the misconduct has occurred, could be a risk from a HR / legal point of view. Can't really say much more than that here as you'd need to get legal advice. But I'd be surprised if you were the first person to disclose that you've depression after something went wrong at work.

More importantly than your job though - are you getting help from the right medical people?

Kaipa

The previous final warning that was given to me was because I had my mobile phone in my jacket pocket in the call handling section of the contact centre less than 2 months ago. Obviously this is a security breech so it's deemed as gross misconduct. Usually warnings of this nature will last for 12 months as far as I know.

The issue now is the fact I've been avoiding calls because my heads not straight at the moment, I find it hard to be able to take the amount of calls required on a daily basis as I'm feeling incredibly low. I completely understand why they have had to remove me from the business right now, and I feel if they were to give me 1 last chance it would be only fair not only for the company but myself for me to have some time off to get better.

I would do anything in order to secure my job, honestly without that I'm pretty sure my depressions just going to get even worse since I'd have to move back with my parents and start all over again

Kaipa

I'm going to see my local GP today, I've already spoke to them over 1 year ago now regarding depression and they sent me to CBT which I did for a while. Since then I haven't done much in terms of helping myself with it as it seemed to get better... but things in my life have taken a downfall in terms of relationships etc and that's why it's really been effecting my work. I am thinking to possibly get a note from the doctor today and call my manager tomorrow to discuss either on the phone, or possibly ask if I can talk to them face to face. I know they said they will call me next week to let me know the outcome but the waiting is unbearable and I feel I'm not doing myself justice by lying to try and escape the reality of the situation

Procrastastudy

OP - realistically you need to weigh the options here. I would highly recommend getting some proper legal advice. A FLAC centre would be ideal but it sounds as if you won't get an appointment in time - I'd try it anyway.

It might be an idea (once you have discussed this with someone trained) to offer your resignation in return for a good reference. Speak to your GP in regards to the depression and don't be opposed to being put on something short term.

I went through something that bears some similarities to your situation. I had about 18 months where I was useless to anyone - living on benefits, couldnt get out od bed etc. I've come through that and I can honestly, hand on heart, say I've never been happier. I was concerned that I'd never be able to work under pressure again - that I was weak. I can also tell you I've never been busier with about 15 different projects all going at once.

TL;DR - Nothing is more important than your health OP - look after it.

Mrs OBumble

Kaipa wrote: »

Surely if I told my manager it would be strictly confidential?

Unless your manager is also your priest, lawyer or accountant, then absolutely not.

For a manager to "keep secrets" for you would be incredibly dangerous and stupid - for them, for the company - and potentially for you too, because your average manager does not have the knowledge and skills to make judgements about the workplace-management of health issues (mental health or otherwise).

They will certainly be telling HR, to assist in the decision-making process regarding what to do about your case.

And if you don't lose your job, they may also need to tell any other manager who could have dealings with you - as Eoin said, the employer has to make reasonable accommodation (eg allowing you some unpaid leave to sort your head, possibly modifying your targets for a period to allow you to recover, allowing you to work part time) and they cannot do this without knowledge.

The level of detail that is provided may vary, of course, but when other managers are told "Fred's targets are temporarily reduced due to a health isue", the then the smart ones will work it out anyway.

Kaipa

Thanks for all the responses, I really so appreciate it.

Many biggest worry is yes, ok so I have depression - but because I'm telling them now AFTER I've been told I will possibly be fired I'm worried it's too late. If they were told before they could of made adjustments for me etc but because they didn't know I couldn't argue that they didn't assist or help as they were never informed....

I have spoke to a FLAC but they've pretty much said the same things as on here, and that gross misconduct will vary between different employers. Also because I hadn't told them about my personal issues they wouldn't be liable for unfair dismissal etc

Nody

I'll be blunt but I'd start looking for a new job, you're not answering enough calls, the calls you answer you put on hold for to long or hang up, you lied to them when confronted about it AND you're already on a final warning due to security breach. Does that sound like someone an company would like to keep employed in a call center? Even if you get through this one short of being a triple star employee for a year you're unlikely to be around much longer.

krd

Kaipa wrote: »

Now I'm currently at home awaiting for them to invite me back in next week after further investigations for a meeting. Most people who have ever come back for a meeting after suspension have got fired so I'm not very confident -

I would say you're nearly definitely going to be fired. Cutting calls is a 'sacking on the spot' offense in most call centres.

The best thing you can do, is go to your doctor, get certs for your depression, if it's a paid suspension, then try to stretch it out. But you will most likely get fired. The meeting will most likely be to have you fired - I know people who managed to stretch their suspension out for a few months on the grounds of depression - they wouldn't attend the sacking meeting.

Working in a call centre is probably the worst place in the world for someone with depression.

petersburg2002

No doubt working there probably contributed to your depression. It's a very tough job and doesn't suit everyone. I worked in an Amazon call centre once. I lasted a few months before telling a rather nasty customer where to go. Didn't have the patience for it.

krd

Eoin wrote: »

On the flip side, employers must make allowances for people with depression. It's treated as a disability in Ireland, which means that they must make reasonable allowances to help you. If you were to disclose this to them, it would obviously help if you could tell them what they need to do to try and accommodate you.

Employing someone with a history of depression to work in a call centre, is the equivalent of taking someone with a bad leg, and putting them in a room with a laughing dwarf, who relentlessly slaps their leg with a small hammer for months on end.

But some people with depression can cope. I have a friend, and they have serious depression. But they were able to work in one call centre, a very busy one, for years without a problem. It's only when they got a job in different centre, where there was constant bullying by management, they ended up having a serious relapse and were hospitalised.

But the kind of carry-on that goes on in some call centres is precisely the kind of thing that would cause depression. There's a style of "management" that would not want to accommodate someone with depression, they actually want everyone to be depressed all the time - but not too depressed that they can't perform.

LegacyUser

I can understand how you feel at he moment.
I don't this company will keep you on. When you meet them ask them could you resign so they can give you a reference in the future. I would also tell them that you have been suffering from depression
Perhaps moving home and concentrating on getting you health back could be the best move for you now. If you spent some time on medication and did cbt for 2 or 3 months you would be feeling better by then.
At at stage you could then start to look for work again.
If you leave your job I would get a letter from your doctor stating that you are suffering from depression to bring to the social welfare office. You may be able to claim under sickness benefit with this. You will need to get a sick cert each week for this payment but the department of social welfare won't be doing interviews with you in why you left your job, what jobs are you looking for ect.

Kaipa

I have a meeting with my line manager in a couple of hours, the main manager who handed me the letter and told me I'm suspended is now on holiday for 2 weeks conveniently. I went to the doctors yesterday who have recommended I go to some counselling sessions which I will definitely do. I have to admit I'm very nervous about talking about this all with my manager, especially since she is the one I lied to in the meeting regarding my gross misconduct. I don't want to come across as if I'm just desperately trying to make excuses at this stage..

Kaipa

Ok so I had my meeting... I was totally honest with my manager about my situation. I actually burst into tears before being able to actually speak properly. Anyway, she was very understanding and told me herself how she takes medication and I'd be surprised how many managers do in this place. Said she wished I had told someone before - that they have avenues with OH to go down for people with these issues. She also said it has changed the situation and they will have to take this into account in the investigation. I will have another meeting with her next week as planned originally where she will "formally" take note of what we discussed today.

I have basically said I am willing to do anything to get my mental state back on track and keep my job, whatever they ask me to do I will do. Now all I can do is hope for the best...

DM addict

Good luck Kaipa.

I suffer from depression myself and I've always found honesty to be the best policy - I know others will disagree. From my experience (in retail and in childcare) disclosing my condition and asking to be treated with reasonable leniency has really helped. Obviously I've been lucky with decent managers, but it sounds like your mananger might be one of those too.

Hope things turn out ok, did you get to your GP in the end?

uck51js9zml2yt

If you've not gotten a letter from you GP saying you suffer from depression, you should get one.
Having medical evidence will formalise your state of health.

Mrs OBumble

krd wrote: »

Employing someone with a history of depression to work in a call centre, is the equivalent of taking someone with a bad leg, and putting them in a room with a laughing dwarf, who relentlessly slaps their leg with a small hammer for months on end.

I'm sorry, but that is just a load of codswallop.

Yes, the work environment in some call centres can be destructive for some people who live with mental illnesses.

On the other hand:

- It's clean, indoor work. You don't get cold, have to deal with adverse weather, cope with on-site traffic or other safety risks. Generally you don't deal with customers face to face, and the worst occupational injury you are likely to suffer from is paper cuts.

- There are usually clear structures and procedures, with not too much discretion for the call-taker, which reduces the difficulty that some people have in making decisions.

- In a well-run CC, there are procedures in place to give people a way to take time-out from the phones when they need it. (Totally not possible in a small general purpose office).

- There are procedures for escalating problem calls to your supervisor.

- At the end of each shift, you go home. You don't take "cases" with you in your mind, because probably they won't even get you the next time they call. You don't need to worry about tomorrow's calls - because no matter how you worry, you cannot predict what they will be

- With a few exceptions, no one dies if you get it wrong. Sure someone might get the wrong idea about when their power bill is due or how to sort out their credit card problem ... but they don't die of that. Keeping this in mind is often handy for keeping things in perspective.

All in all, this kind of stability, structure and support can be incredibly helpful for someone who is trying to manage a challenging illness while working.

Yes, there can be a**hole customers. But that's what the procedures manual is for. Follow the rules, give them the same opportunities as everyone else gets.

And yes, there can be bad managers and nasty colleagues. But they are by no means confined to call centre - and they can be even more damaging in certain other environments.

dd972

Get out of the call centre and get a proper job, they're 21st century battery hen sweat shops and you're being lorded over by jumped up jerks who are on €3 a hour more than you are.

NR04

Kaipa; I'm just wondering how you are getting on at work? I'm dealing with a very similar situation, so i'm really glad i came across this thread. I was demoted from a management position in retail and I have been really suffering with my depression since. As a result I am performing poorly at work and I'm now been threatened with demotion yet again. After reading this I have decided to visit my GP for help. Thank-you!

Procrastastudy

NR04 wrote: »

Kaipa; I'm just wondering how you are getting on at work? I'm dealing with a very similar situation, so i'm really glad i came across this thread. I was demoted from a management position in retail and I have been really suffering with my depression since. As a result I am performing poorly at work and I'm now been threatened with demotion yet again. After reading this I have decided to visit my GP for help. Thank-you!

You should NEVER go into a work disciplinary meeting without having taken advice. Be it from FLAC, the union or a solicitor.

LegacyUser

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that is just a load of codswallop.

Yes, the work environment in some call centres can be destructive for some people who live with mental illnesses.

On the other hand:

- It's clean, indoor work. You don't get cold, have to deal with adverse weather, cope with on-site traffic or other safety risks. Generally you don't deal with customers face to face, and the worst occupational injury you are likely to suffer from is paper cuts.

- There are usually clear structures and procedures, with not too much discretion for the call-taker, which reduces the difficulty that some people have in making decisions.

- In a well-run CC, there are procedures in place to give people a way to take time-out from the phones when they need it. (Totally not possible in a small general purpose office).

- There are procedures for escalating problem calls to your supervisor.

- At the end of each shift, you go home. You don't take "cases" with you in your mind, because probably they won't even get you the next time they call. You don't need to worry about tomorrow's calls - because no matter how you worry, you cannot predict what they will be

- With a few exceptions, no one dies if you get it wrong. Sure someone might get the wrong idea about when their power bill is due or how to sort out their credit card problem ... but they don't die of that. Keeping this in mind is often handy for keeping things in perspective.

All in all, this kind of stability, structure and support can be incredibly helpful for someone who is trying to manage a challenging illness while working.

Yes, there can be a**hole customers. But that's what the procedures manual is for. Follow the rules, give them the same opportunities as everyone else gets.

And yes, there can be bad managers and nasty colleagues. But they are by no means confined to call centre - and they can be even more damaging in certain other environments.

I don't know, working in a call centre was the worst job I ever had. I'll never forget it, and I was only there three months, when I left because I couldnt take it anymore.
It's an inhumane way of working.
We were selling mobile phone insurance with a sytem where the second you hung up, the automatic dialler would go onto the next call. Being marked on how long you stay on the phone when customers wanted to get you off as quickly as possible, not being allowed to get off the automatic dialler for a second, being timed on your very shrot toilet breaks. It was an atmosphere that would drive anyone mad. They also had a thing written into your contract that you had to pay the company 250 if you left within the first three months, because so many people were leaving. I found out when I left they didnt actually do this - it was just to deter people from leaving, but that was another stressor.

I also dropped calls, just for a break from the relentless calls to people over and over who didnt want phone insurance, horrific! I think everyone drops calls at some stage, I kow one lad who was there with me who dropped loads of calls - who went on to be a manager. It is the working sytem that is too pressured. They should let people take off their headsets for a break for god sake.

dd972

This sums up the call centre experience succinctly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAjzvy94JsM

Stheno

My first job that got me into IT was tech support in a call centre.

It was hard work, there were strict rules, but it taught me a great deal about discipline, how to communicate with people, and equipped me with skills I still use over 15 years later.