Wigan home - 03/11

Kiith

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

The problem arises when missing our midfield playmaker, plenty of our goals last season came from the full backs and wingers overlapping one another. That was because we had a player like Modric in the middle to complete the triangle. Without Dembele we don't have that. I suspect AVB might push Carroll into this roll because we all know (although many slated the manager for wanting rid) that Huddlestone is not good enough. He is far too slow and predictable.

This is why we're not playing well imo. Modric dictated so much of our play, and with Dembele out, we've no one who can even come close to what he did. Hudd simply isn't good enough, and Dempsey and Siggy have shown nothing all season. Sandro is a ball winner, not a playmaker imo. We really ballsed up the Moutinho (or other similar player) deal.

Some of the players need a right kick up the ass though. Walker needs to sort out his defensive work and crossing (christ he's awful at crossing), Gallas has been having a terrible run lately, Siggy/Dempsey as above, Defoe on his own isn't working, Bale and Lennon not making enough runs down the wings (and switching wings when one of them is doubled up on). Vertongen, Caulker and Friedel are about our only decent players recently, and even they've made mistakes (bar Friedel i suppose).

Not happy at all (bloody furious tbh), but i'm still hopeful that we'll improve once our players are back, and/or we sign some new blood in January.

Hatch99

How wrong I was...
Terrible performance, slow, little creativity, and looked very nervous.

Don't get me wrong, I agree we were absolutely awful today,and the substitute was crazy, but I disagree with some of you on certain points.

I want the manager to stay. He is in the job for 10 league games to date and you all want him out and that's your opinion which is fine, but I think he should be given the the season at least. Listen, if we are 10th or 11th come March or April, I might change my mind but lets wait and see.

Another thing, the booing is a load of bollo*. Everyone to there own, but as Leinster mentioned, certain other sets of fans put us to shame when it comes to supporting our players and manager. You'd think we were 3rd from bottom the way some go on.

Sugarlumps

I didn't watch the game or read past the 3rd page. I couldn't give a shít either, anyone who thought we'd win this is off there nut, have you seen us play this season? We've been focking unwatchable.

Hatch99

Sugarlumps wrote: »

I didn't watch the game or read past the 3rd page. I couldn't give a shít either, anyone who thought we'd win this is off there nut, have you seen us play this season? We've been focking unwatchable.

In fairness though mate, with the players we have, we should be beating wigan at home.

Hatch99

I don't always agree with HH, but this is spot on.

Good evening.
The White Rabbit put on his spectacles. ‘Where shall I begin, please your Majesty?’ he asked.
‘Begin at the beginning,’ the King said gravely, ‘and go on till you come to the end: then stop.’
As discussed at length and almost dare I suggest predicted on this week’s show we are suffering all over the shop. That’s as plain as the nose on your face. But what’s the right response? Is AVB a clown? Are Levy & Co. a shower of bean counting shysters? Do our players need keel hauling and flogging?!
The Blame Game is a doll, eh?. It’s the most inclusive game in the world. Literally anyone can play. You don’t need any ability to reason or analyse. Just a strong desire to pin your metaphoric tail on the metaphoric donkey of your choice.
Before we get going on the ‘attitude’ of the crowd at White Hart Lane, let me not be accused trying to peddle opinion as fact in this respect. How we laughed at Arsenal. The Emptycrates. How we sniggered at ‘Arsenalisation’ and what it meant. They moved from a library into a purpose built monument to ambition and it turned out to have all the soul of an NCP car park.
This week however Arsenal fans have given us an exhibition in how to support. Losing 4-0 to the mighty Reading during the week and they were unrelenting in their support. Song after song. Earlier today they were losing away 0-2 to Manchester United. They sang, ‘We love you Arsenal, we do’ with a passion, a pride and a determination that was nothing shy of historic.
These are supporters who are seriously feeling that most horrible of pangs. Watching a former player be pivotal in their 90 minutes of demise. But they refused to give up. Old Trafford didn’t even really try drown them out because the home tribe acknowledged the away tribe’s strength and their honour.
White Hart Lane to me has for some time become over infested by people who behave as if they are going to the cinema. They take their seats and wait for the performance to please them. People who aren’t part of a tribe anymore. These weaklings have let the burden of expectation turn them into members of an audience, not supporters.
Never in the history of the world has there been such a time for a football fan to voice their opinion. Never. iPhones, android, apps, iOS Face Time, Facebook, Tweet, Skype me baby, call us now – we’re live and want to take your call, blog, use a net book, home office mate, log in to the forum now!
Who needs information.This high off the ground
Just give me confirmation We could win a million pounds
Who needs information When you’re living in constant fear
The first line of defence tends to be the line, ‘I’m entitled to my opinion.’ Of course you are, dear. But given the myriad options available… does enforcing the silent treatment, huffing or booing strike you as being amongst the most constructive options? Is that support?
The second line of defence tends to be the line, ‘Well at least I go!’ This dear reader is the suicide note of suicide notes. Who could possibly regard that of having discernible value? This is like the world’s worst employee pointing to his attendance record. ‘Yeah, I was the cancer of the business, fair cop. But I was never late for work!’
What of the fans that simply cannot attend? Is the girl in India a second rate fan? Is the man in Canada an idiot? Is the mother of 4 in Norfolk a time waster? No. The answer is too many idiots are over inflated with their own sense of self importance and indeed worth.
I’m aware of the pressures modern day fans face. Cost, burden of expectation all that jazz. My response to those of you weak willed enough to hide behind these and other pieces of equally worthless rubbish is simple. Ever thought this isn’t for you? Devote your time to something that gives you actual pleasure. Collect stamps, take up sewing, take a small plot of your garden, tend it and grow something. Root vegetables are as much of a reward to some as a sophisticated vine.

DamienKilmurray

I agree with you that we should be beating Wigan at home with the players we have, but the reason we didn`t beat them is because we`re set up wrong, simple as. At the moment we are playing the worst football that I have seen a Spurs team play at the lane in my 34 years watching them. It`s absolute muck to watch. It`s actually getting worse every game. I watched all our pre season games in the U.S and I was worried even then by the way we were playing. Stevie Wonder can see it ffs, why can`t AVB. If he doesn`t change his system leaving Defoe up front alone these results and performances will continue. I honestly feel AVB is out of his depth, he got lucky at Porto.

Hatch99

DamienKilmurray wrote: »

At the moment we are playing the worst football that I have seen a Spurs team play at the lane in my 34 years watching them. I honestly feel AVB is out of his depth, he got lucky at Porto.

In fairness now, I have seen worse spurs sides over the last couple of decades.

Who knows, you could be right on AVB, but should he not be given a chance ? Is 10 league games a chance ?

mushykeogh

What worries me is, we are still playing the same way as we did in pre season!
have we seen much progression? I doubted AVB when he was appointed and he hasnt done anything to make me change my mind. Against Lazio at home i actually thought we were beginning to get used to his style and that progress was being made. But today was awful, regardless of who we were missing today, we were still awful.
I dont think he should be sacked, i am behind him as our manager, but i am a skeptic! As long as we are fourth, or in contention for fourth, i believe he should be given support.

However, he inherited a side that finished fourth, rebuilding or not, a good manger taking over a quality team, he should at least maintain the standard that we are at.
His only experience in english football was a disaster, if he had learned from his time at chelsea, i felt he could be a great manager, i fear he hasnt learned though.
The biggest frustration is how sluggish and devoid of ideas we have looked for 90% of the games so far.

Seillejet

At least other results went for us today.

I thought there were some crumbs of comfort.

Ade looked good when he came on as did Siguddsson.

Caulker and Vert will be a fine defensive pairing once we have a fit LB.

DamienKilmurray

Hatch99 wrote: »

In fairness now, I have seen worse spurs sides over the last couple of decades.

Who knows, you could be right on AVB, but should he not be given a chance ? Is 10 league games a chance ?

Yes we`ve had worse sides than now but I can`t remember us playing as negative or as bad as we`ve been this season. I agree that 10 league games is not a chance but if the team doesn`t start performing and getting results soon he`ll be gone by Christmas because he`ll have the fans and the British media on his back. Don`t get me wrong I`d like to see him succeed but if he can`t see what he`s doing isn`t working then i`m afraid he`s not up to the job. Our squad at the moment is not capable of playing his system.

tomo75

Well, I got a chance to see some of the game today. I feel Defoe has a pain in his hoop with Dempsey. Dempsey got the ball and i was watching what he did. Head down and took a shot on goal. Defoe could have been wide open but he wouldn't have seen him any which way. All that aside, I have seen Spurs play some crap footie over the years and yes today was up there. I still backing AVB. 10 games. Too early to say yet.
As for booing, that REALLY gets on my nerves. Guys that boo most likely have never kicked a ball in anger in their life - hurler on the ditch crap. Yeah, we are not playing like Barca but we are in a transition period.
If we are playing muck after 20 games with no sign of any improvement - I'll do a review on it then.
Rant over !!!!!!!

spursman11

so disappointing today,we didnt perform but still could have drawn the game,need kaboul back fast,Gallas too slow in turning and I think even with Friedels saves today,LLoris should be in as brad should have dealt better with corner prior to the goal.Dembele ,Ade and Defoe on pitch at same time with Sandro bale and lennon we will be unbeatable,hoping for another win in Manchester next weekend

tippspur

Didn't see the game (probably just as well)by all reports we were shocking,very disappointed we couldn't manage to beat Wigan at home with so many bigger teams to play in the next month,if we don't improve I fear for us against the likes of City and Arsenal,the fact that Sandro could be out for a month now just makes things harder.

Leinstersqspur

The problem is not the system, it's the players in it. You could see Bale's frustration today not getting quick ball. With Huudlestone, Livermore and to a lesser degree Sandro there is no quick turn of pace and quick through ball. Huddlestone can flight a lovely ball when it suits him but that is all he can do.

Our performance was bad, that's undeniable, but one things is obvious, without Dembele we have no connection between defence and attack and that's why other teams can press us easily, because threat of a ruthless counter attack is almost non-existent.

The manager didn't inherit a top 4 team, he inherited a team that used to be a top 4 team before it sold arguably its two best players. We're 5th after ten games whilst missing another few of our best players. The manager will get it right given time and backing in the market.

AVB's Spurs will be a team of immense dimension and tremendous motivation;)

Prick!

What's up with Sigurdsson? Has he been doing much? Doesn't seem so. Pity.

mickman

WHL was scarily quiet yesterday from what i have read - the fans really hate the way we are playing (me included) and this will ultimetly lead to avb's demise. The fans that attend each game are the real people who run the club, when they start to stay away in their masses (which they will do if we keep going like this) then avb will be sacked and levy will respond to the people

Other than that :-) i do agree that he inherited a much much poorer side that last season, ade is a shadow of his former self and luca and vdv are just huge huge losses. Dempsey is just no good, he is so selfish and has no pace / excitement or anyting else for that matter - he is good at tap ins :-)

Injuries are crippling us, our first team should ideally be lloris ,walker, vertongen , kaboul , bae , lennon , parker , dembele , bale , ade , AN other (dempsey , defoe or siggy) . That team is a helll of a lot better than what we put out yesterday.

Dare i say it that jenas would be actually be more capable of covering for dembele than huddleston ????

We seem to be better away from home than at home so we may do ok next week , i doubt it though.

If we can make it to January in 6th and less than 6 points off 4th and we strengthen in Jan then who knows

Dublin Spur

much more Levy's fault then AVBs IMO but AVB will take the fall if this rubbish continues

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

If you compare our team from last year to our team that played yesterday, it's far weaker. Kaboul, Benny, Modric, vdV and Ade are big losses (I know Ade was playing but he's far from match fit). Those 5, along with Parker who was one of our best players up until Christmas, accounts for over half our team. Throw in Walker who has regressed into one of the worst RBs in the league and our team last year looks like world beaters. Dempsey simply does not cut the mustard. He's fcuking useless, he's a Fulham standard player that cashed in on his one great season. Also, he is no longer a midf. Thudd is a good player, but he is incapable of playing CM by himself. Gylfi is being played out of position, he's not a midf, end of. And Gallas is an excellent back up, but not someone to be played week in week out.

So when we look at yesterday, we were playing with essentially one out and out midfielder, was this AVB's fault? No, he simply doesn't have the players. Demebele, Sandro and Livermore were all injured. Without a midfield you cannot win games. we need strengthening at Christmas, at least one CM needs to be brought in, preferably a playmaker, that, along with the return of Parker will make a massive difference. Will that happen? I'm not sure, I really don't think Levy will splash the cash in January.

I don't think it's reasonable - in the slightest - to ask AVB to improve on our league position from last year, or even maintain it. He has inherited a much weaker squad, while the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, United and Liverpool have all strengthened. We will not be finishing in the top 4 this season, why not? We don't have the players and it's as simple as that. If HR was in charge I honestly don't think he'd be doing any better. I think AVB deserves the season at the very least (and to be quite honest I think he deserves another season to build), which he will get, so the sooner we get behind him the better. I can only urge everyone to manage their expectations, top 6, while it sounds like a big fall from last season, is about our level, and we are currently joint 4th ahead of Arsenal.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Dublin Spur wrote: »

much more Levy's fault then AVBs IMO but AVB will take the fall if this rubbish continues

If Levy didn't dick around in August we'd have Moutinho. What do we have instead? An incredibly average Dempsey on £90,000 a week (about twice what Modric earned).

Prick!

Dempsey is so bad, and isn't even young. What is he, 31?

mushykeogh

THFC wrote: »

I don't think it's reasonable - in the slightest - to ask AVB to improve on our league position from last year, or even maintain it. He has inherited a much weaker squad,

Couldnt disagree more, he inherited a top four 4 squad, brought in his own players (i presume they were his choice), and we shouldnt expect an improvement or at least maintain our position? Crazy, imo, Give him a season? if were a bottom half side, yea, definitely, give him a season.

Injuries apart, we have been playing pants all season, premiership, league cup, europa league, all the same. Wheres the improvement? I dont see it, whats more, look at the body language of the players, they aint buying the AVB idea.

Sugarlumps

Our next few games are against good opposition, not picking up three points at home yesterday could prove problematic.

"Every single one of us needs to take a long, hard look in the mirror and hold our hands up. We didn't perform from minute one to minute 95," Friedel

franktheplank

I only saw the highlights (that's a stretch i know) of this last night and it's very disappointing. I'm all for giving AVB a reasonable chance but I'm starting to have serious concerns.

To me a good manager will have us matching anyone with our first team and more often than not beating sides like Wigan, Norwich, Maripor, West Brom etc even with an injury depleted team.

An average manager would have us either matching the top teams or beating the weaker ones.

While a poor one (Ramos where are you) would have us doing neither.

So far AVB (and i really want the guy to succeed) is falling very much into the average category, yes there have been one or two good performances but generally we're not doing anything exceptional with the team we have and given how lackluster and cowardly we've looked at times this season i'd fear he could lose the team with a run of bad results.

I worry about us in the next few matches esp if Dembele is out but we shouldn't need to rely on one or two players. It's a concern how so many of our players are underachieving.

Leinstersqspur

mushykeogh wrote: »

Couldnt disagree more, he inherited a top four 4 squad, brought in his own players (i presume they were his choice), and we shouldnt expect an improvement or at least maintain our position?

I guess some people look at things from a different perspective. I think he inherited a top 4 squad that had just sold arguably its two best players, Modric consistently recycled the ball looking for openings and Vdv was a big game player. If they were still here and we were playing some of the football we've been playing I'd be dismissing AVB as Juande MkII, but they're not and our squad has been depleted by injuries. You're presuming the manager bought these players before he waw appointed but you'd have to agree that Siggy has Levy(ENIC) written all over it, youth + potential = large sell on fee?

mushykeogh wrote: »

look at the body language of the players, they aint buying the AVB idea.

Did you read this in the Sun? BAE quoted yesterday saying the manager is cool and clever, just needs time.

Antisocialiser

Our better players i.e. Bale will never stick around if this ****e continues. The team needs to perform in the now. They are seriously lacking in sharpness and creativity and wigan thoroughly deserved the victory.

I'm 100% behind AVB but if we had put out the same team with HR behind them we would have walked it.

Leinstersqspur

Antisocialiser wrote: »

I'm 100% behind AVB but if we had put out the same team with HR behind them we would have walked it.

Sorry mate, you walked into that one...;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8946717.stm

franktheplank

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Sorry mate, you walked into that one...;)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/eng_prem/8946717.stm

Agreed and yes there will always be upsets in football, the difference being that in the above match we still created chances, yesterday nothing.

Any of the top clubs could be beaten by a Wigan etc at home but to do so without putting up any sort of fight is whats worrying.

Getting slightly off topic but did anyone else think Freidel was fouled in the build up to their goal? Kone just backs his arse into him enough to put him back into the net?

Leinstersqspur

franktheplank wrote: »

Any of the top clubs could be beaten by a Wigan etc at home but to do so without putting up any sort of fight is whats worrying.

Getting slightly off topic but did anyone else think Freidel was fouled in the build up to their goal? Kone just backs his arse into him enough to put him back into the net?

Agreed the fight was lacking. On the goal, probably was but I think most people ignored it because they could have been two or three up at that stage. There was a sneaky trailing arm for sure.

One question for the manager: Who was supposed to be back post for the goal? They had McCarthy on theirs to prevent Caulkers equaliser.

mickman

Why do people think Parker will make a massive difference ??

Sandro has been our best player this season

Leinstersqspur

mickman wrote: »

Why do people think Parker will make a massive difference??

So we can rotate and not have to rely on Livermore/Hudd for cover? He was probably our best player last season..