Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Wigan home - 03/11

Options
124»

Comments

  • Options
    #92
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Leinstersqspur wrote: »
    So we can rotate and not have to rely on Livermore/Hudd for cover? He was probably our best player last season..


    yeah but its sandro he will be replacing, parker is not a replacement for dembele

    parker wasnt a replacement for modric either, they just complimented each other really well.


  • Options
    #93
    Leinstersqspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Leinstersqspur


    mickman wrote: »
    yeah but its sandro he will be replacing, parker is not a replacement for dembele

    parker wasnt a replacement for modric either, they just complimented each other really well.

    Sandro played 23 games last season and Parker played 29. Sandro is still young and we can't expect him to play 50 games in a season. Parker is a leader, he will make a team see a game out, something we're badly lacking.

    Nobody suggested he was a replacement for Dembele. Unfortunately we don't have a replacement for Dembele unless Carroll makes a giant leap. Or Hudd shifts a few stone.


  • Options
    #94
    franktheplank
    Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭franktheplank


    Leinstersqspur wrote: »
    So we can rotate and not have to rely on Livermore/Hudd for cover? He was probably our best player last season..

    The problem i see with this is we should be able to rely on Hudd/Livermore for cover, we're talking two players here on the fringes of the English team. With them in the team (yes Siggy in for Livermore yesterday) we should still be able to beat Wigan or at the very least put up a showing.

    A lot of our players look a shadow of their former selves and i'm starting to suspect this is more to do with the boss. Take the attacking midfield role, Siggy and Dempsey were too of the best in this position in the league last year, i find it hard to belief that both are duds overnight. One maybe but hardly two?

    A lot of people are saying we shouldn't have let VDV go but we never really saw him play under AVB. I suspect AVB is overcomplicating the attacking midfield role. VDV excelled when given a free role and more or less this is the role Siggy & Dempsey excelled with too. My understanding of an attacking midfielder is a guy who helps out in midfield when possible but is also free to link with the attack where he can find an opening. A striker plays a more strict role running into particular areas etc.

    I suspect AVB is trying to get too much from the attacking midfielder and as a result is left with little or nothing. Siggy goes missing and Dempsey puts his head down and shoots on sight because they're not comfortable in their role.


  • Options
    #95
    Leinstersqspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Leinstersqspur


    For me Vdv was electric when playing off Adebayor, and the season before that Crouch, but very rarely JD. I think as soon Adebayor's fully fit we'll see a different 'dimension:D' to the attacking midfield role..

    I'd have no hesitation dropping and even selling JD. I'll probably get blasted but he offers very little to the team except for the goals he scores when he's on form. He was woeful against Southampton and our failure to be clinical allowed them to get back into the game. Redknapp loved him, but rarely played him.

    September 2012: "He’s looking sharp, a bit greedy as normal, but that’s him" Gareth Bale.


  • Options
    #96
    Michael_1
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Michael_1


    ...and it turned out worse!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #97
    Big Pussy Bonpensiero
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    mushykeogh wrote: »
    Couldnt disagree more, he inherited a top four 4 squad, brought in his own players (i presume they were his choice), and we shouldnt expect an improvement or at least maintain our position? Crazy, imo, Give him a season? if were a bottom half side, yea, definitely, give him a season.

    Injuries apart, we have been playing pants all season, premiership, league cup, europa league, all the same. Wheres the improvement? I dont see it, whats more, look at the body language of the players, they aint buying the AVB idea.
    You cannot possibly think he has a squad similar in quality to last years? We haven't replaced Modric, Ade has been injured, Walker has massively regressed and Kaboul hasn't played a game yet afaik. One of our best big game players (vdV) also left. That's not to mention the other players I've already mentioned (e.g. BAE, Parker). Also, I don't believe for a second that Dempsey was ever a player AVB wanted, Gylfi has all the makings of a Levy signing and Vertonghen was a long term target. Willian, Moutinho and Dembelé were AVB targets afaik, of which he only got one. Add another one of those in place of Dempsey and already our squad is much stronger. As hard as it is to see now, I really think that under AVB we are capable of big things, I believe he can take us further than HR ever could have.
    mickman wrote: »
    Why do people think Parker will make a massive difference ??

    Sandro has been our best player this season
    He would have made a difference yesterday, in place of the injured Sandro.


  • Options
    #98
    mushykeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭mushykeogh


    THFC wrote: »
    You cannot possibly think he has a squad similar in quality to last years? We haven't replaced Modric, Ade has been injured, Walker has massively regressed and Kaboul hasn't played a game yet afaik. One of our best big game players (vdV) also left. That's not to mention the other players I've already mentioned (e.g. BAE, Parker). Also, I don't believe for a second that Dempsey was ever a player AVB wanted, Gylfi has all the makings of a Levy signing and Vertonghen was a long term target. Willian, Moutinho and Dembelé were AVB targets afaik, of which he only got one.
    Wasnt VDV still here when AVB arrived? As far as i know he was responsible for moving him on, Its all good listing targets but jesus how many targets did HR have? doesnt matter what targets he has, he has to work with what he has. When you sw the line up on sat did you think that was a team could enough to beat wigan? I certainly did. Its a different squad but still a top 4 squad for me.
    I really think that under AVB we are capable of big things, I believe he can take us further than HR ever could have.
    BAsed on what? Where does this faith come from? What, based on AVB's time as a premiership manager gives you reason to believe he is going to bring us to better than 4th?

    How many games have we played? 15? The majority have been very very poor. At least when we got stung at home under HR we usually had most of the possession and created chances but just couldnt bloody score.
    Im waiting for us to turn a corner and start playing well, i just cant see it.
    Couldnt care less what BAE says to the Sun, both are as unreliable as each other! This is the player who by his own admission has to ask his teammates who they are playing!

    Jesus christ lads, look at the body language of the players on Sat, they do not seem to know what they are doing.


  • Options
    #99
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Saturday looked like utter confusion - the players really didnt know what to do

    Bring us back to the days of " go out there and play lads" :-) -at least it was exciting


  • Options
    #100
    Leinstersqspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Leinstersqspur


    mushykeogh wrote: »
    When you saw the line up on sat did you think that was a team could enough to beat wigan?

    I did. And then Sandro went off.
    Leinstersqspur wrote: »
    With Hudd playing DM we're gonna be in trouble. Nervous.
    mushykeogh wrote: »
    Based on what? Where does this faith come from? What, based on AVB's time as a premiership manager gives you reason to believe he is going to bring us to better than 4th?
    Nobody said we'd better fourth this season but we're in the same position we were in after 10 games last season with a far from healthy squad. Give the man some time.
    mushykeogh wrote: »
    Couldnt care less what BAE says to the Sun, both are as unreliable as each other! Jesus christ lads, look at the body language of the players on Sat, they do not seem to know what they are doing.

    Benny was on twitter all yesterday telling fans to get behind the team. Why would we care less about what he has to say given he plays for the team?! If when leaving work this evening half a stadium full of people stood outside booing me i'd probably feel a little dejected. On the otherhand, you believe the body language is because they don't understand AVB's style of football. Where did you get this information?


  • Options
    #101
    mushykeogh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭mushykeogh


    Leinstersqspur wrote: »
    On the otherhand, you believe the body language is because they don't understand AVB's style of football. Where did you get this information?

    The body language is not encouraging, thats all im saying, no inside information, just my opinion, did you think they looked like they knew what they were doing? To me, they are not playing with a confidence in their game plan, they looked listless, lethargic and devoid of ideas. Thats my opinion, if people dont agree with that, no problem. This my interpretation of what i have seen on saturday and all season.
    In every club you will find someone who backs the manager and some who dont, my point is, i wouldnt take what a player says in the media to seriously whether he is pro or anti AVB. The proof is on the pitch, and the performances are Painfull!

    Iv said this before, results will continue and performances will improve steadily, or performance will stay as is but the results stop coming. Thats when things start to fall apart.

    Prove me wrong AVB, for the love of god prove me wrong and i will be your biggest ****ing supporter you have ever had!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #102
    Bodie Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Bodie Doyle


    Have to agree with many of the above posts regarding the body language. I saw Bale a few times on Saturday throw his arms up on the air in annoyance. Look at Defoe when he came off. Where was the spirit? The comeback?

    Its just not working at the moment. 3 defeats in one week should shut up all the AVB apologists for a moment. I thought AVB was a master tactician. Has anyone seen this supposed genius yet? We were playing Wigan at home and they took the game to us. The manager has no balls. He sets the team up to play away from home. We have great possession in our own half and then are too scared/ordered not to attack with any sense of purpose.

    Dont give me this "our team is depleted from last season" bull. The squad we had out there on Saturday was more than capable of beating Wigan at home. And yes under HR we did lose to Wigan at home before but at least we had a go!!!!!!! Saturday was friggin disgraceful.
    Rant over.


  • Options
    #103
    Mullo76
    Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Mullo76


    I was in the Oak lounge over there on Sat and had a great day football aside. Met and had great chats with a fair few of the Spurs Legends, Pat Jennings, Alan Mullery, John Pratt (who is a character - anyone ever doing a legends tour book this guy for pure entertainment), Phil Beal, Mark Falco and the brilliant Cliff Jones.

    Prior to the game the message was the same from a lot of them as in they werent happy with the system and thought it directly contributed to the issues. Bearing in mind the game is different then when these lads played but they understand football, most thought shouldnt be anything other than 4 4 2 most of time and especially against Wigan at home.

    Spoke to Friedel after the game as the "Spurs man of the match" and he was understandably fed up and said it just isnt good enough. He did say that from the players perspective they are working hard and just not sure why it isnt clicking for them but its not - I didnt expect him to say a lot more but you could see it actually means something to him. I asked him about the formation and he said maybe but they should still be winning these games irrespective..

    On another note, give me Park Lane anyday. Great seats beside the directors box but if you think it was quiet in general at the lane on sat you should have sat where I did.


  • Options
    #104
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Mullo76 wrote: »
    I was in the Oak lounge over there on Sat and had a great day football aside. Met and had great chats with a fair few of the Spurs Legends, Pat Jennings, Alan Mullery, John Pratt (who is a character - anyone ever doing a legends tour book this guy for pure entertainment), Phil Beal, Mark Falco and the brilliant Cliff Jones.

    Prior to the game the message was the same from a lot of them as in they werent happy with the system and thought it directly contributed to the issues. Bearing in mind the game is different then when these lads played but they understand football, most thought shouldnt be anything other than 4 4 2 most of time and especially against Wigan at home.

    Spoke to Friedel after the game as the "Spurs man of the match" and he was understandably fed up and said it just isnt good enough. He did say that from the players perspective they are working hard and just not sure why it isnt clicking for them but its not - I didnt expect him to say a lot more but you could see it actually means something to him. I asked him about the formation and he said maybe but they should still be winning these games irrespective..

    On another note, give me Park Lane anyday. Great seats beside the directors box but if you think it was quiet in general at the lane on sat you should have sat where I did.

    Strange to hear friedal acting like that , trouble in the camp ??


  • Options
    #105
    Mullo76
    Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Mullo76


    mickman wrote: »
    Strange to hear friedal acting like that , trouble in the camp ??
    no not at all and this was in a quick conversation not as part of the presentation. Just seemed obviously fed up with the performance that just went but also genuinely said they are working hard and not sure why it is not clicking whilst acknowledging thats the case.


  • Options
    #106
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Mullo76 wrote: »
    no not at all and this was in a quick conversation not as part of the presentation. Just seemed obviously fed up with the performance that just went but also genuinely said they are working hard and not sure why it is not clicking whilst acknowledging thats the case.

    yeah fair enough. Its like the players are trying too hard, they are so anxious and seem afraid to express themselves. That can only come from avb?

    The players always said that HR told them to go out and enjoy themseleves and it worked a lot of the time.

    To be honest when i see avb buried in his notebook drawing diagrams furiously , it looks a bit much to be honest. It aint rocket science but he makes it out to be.


  • Options
    #107
    Mullo76
    Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Mullo76


    mickman wrote: »
    The players always said that HR told them to go out and enjoy themseleves and it worked a lot of the time.

    There has to be an inbetween where players can express themselves when appropriate within a system. Dont forget all the moaning about HR being tactically naieve. AVB has yet to show me anything tactical despite the drawings, if he cant change from his system when its called for we are in trouble. I think negative booing from fans etc will also affect players too, understand people want to express their opinions but find a better way to do it. Trying too hard could well be a problem at the moment alright + we are still a couple of players short of a top team.


  • Options
    #108
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Mullo76 wrote: »
    There has to be an inbetween where players can express themselves when appropriate within a system. Dont forget all the moaning about HR being tactically naieve. AVB has yet to show me anything tactical despite the drawings, if he cant change from his system when its called for we are in trouble. I think negative booing from fans etc will also affect players too, understand people want to express their opinions but find a better way to do it. Trying too hard could well be a problem at the moment alright + we are still a couple of players short of a top team.

    yeah i never thought harry was tactially nieve. In europe maybe, but not in the premier league. I dont think tactics are as important in the uk as they are in europe .


  • Options
    #109
    Leinstersqspur
    Registered Users Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭Leinstersqspur


    Bodie Doyle wrote: »
    Have to agree with many of the above posts regarding the body language. I saw Bale a few times on Saturday throw his arms up on the air in annoyance. Look at Defoe when he came off. Where was the spirit? The comeback?

    I thought Bale's frustration was more down to failure of the midfield to play a fast counter attacking pass. Commentary eluded to this.
    mickman wrote: »
    yeah i never thought harry was tactially nieve. In europe maybe, but not in the premier league. I dont think tactics are as important in the uk as they are in europe.

    This is the same HR that said "even at 2-0 up against Arsenal, I knew we were gonna lose the game"

    People slating the manager for subbing Defoe but he was at nothing on Saturday. In 60mins he had 11 touches, 5 completed passes and 0 shots. Dempsey in 90mins had 34 touches, 22 completed passes and 3 shots. Defoe always sulks when he's subbed off because he thinks he should be the only player scoring the goals. He's too greedy, always has been. HR was playing Saha ahead of him!

    PS. http://www.tottenhamhotspur-mad.co.uk/feat/ed11/defoe_has_it_all_wrong_766436/index.shtml


  • Options
    #110
    Bodie Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 320 ✭✭Bodie Doyle


    Leinstersqspur wrote: »
    I thought Bale's frustration was more down to failure of the midfield to play a fast counter attacking pass. Commentary eluded to this.



    This is the same HR that said "even at 2-0 up against Arsenal, I knew we were gonna lose the game"

    People slating the manager for subbing Defoe but he was at nothing on Saturday. In 60mins he had 11 touches, 5 completed passes and 0 shots. Dempsey in 90mins had 34 touches, 22 completed passes and 3 shots. Defoe always sulks when he's subbed off because he thinks he should be the only player scoring the goals. He's too greedy, always has been. HR was playing Saha ahead of him!

    PS. http://www.tottenhamhotspur-mad.co.uk/feat/ed11/defoe_has_it_all_wrong_766436/index.shtml[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps Bale's frustration was down to a lack of a decent pass but his body language still shows he is unhappy. If it was a one off maybe Bale would have turned around and tried to win the ball back instead of throwing his hands up in the air in despair. But it was not a one off - the passing or lack of, the pace of the passing was way too slow, the pedestrain attempt of our midfield to get forward in support of Defoe...... so many bad points from Saturday.
    I just cannot believe we were so bad.

    I do agree with you Leinster about Defoe. He always seems to think he is the main man and has a strop when taken off. But he had a reason to be peed off on Saturday - we were at home to Wigan and the manager takes him off and decides to continue with only one up front. A baffling decision.
    Can AVB changes his system when things don't go to plan? Surely he should have went 4-4-2 on Saturday.


Advertisement