Teaching Council Section 30

yogibaby

Hey folks

I graduated 5 years ago with Hdip. I have been working p/t casual ever since moving from school to school, getting whatever I can. With the new section 30 being rolled out by DOE, It came to my attention today that I have been paid as an unqualified Teacher ever since I graduated. I did sign up with Teaching Council when I graduated but never took much notice of actually registering as I could never afford the €90 and didnt realise what implications it was having on me. As I was being paid by private school as qualified teacher for a number of years I didnt notice any difference in take home pay.
Now Im being paid by DOE, and Im covering maternity leave until Jan. Does anybody else find DOE payroll staff mostly incompetent? (for making a mess of my tax credits which they only sorted out this week, after 6 weeks of constantly calling them to see if they have downloaded correct forms from tax office). I have a few issues here. One is that I not entitled to claim back any of the money that due to me at the higher rate as I was not registered. secondly, if I register now the backlog is at least 10 weeks long (to qoute TC) and by then I will have left the cover position. It takes this long larely due to garda vetting.
on top of this, I am doing 2 hours in another local school. The principal just completed the Garda vetting process with me, so I have the papers ready to go and start my TC registration, but TC will not accept this, and says vetting must be done only through them!!!! SO fustrating.
I tried phoning a number of unions today, only to get some snotty receptionist who would not allow me to seek advice(even though I told her I was not looking for advice just information) unless I had joined the Union, for another €50 euro!! its crazy! I also tried citizens advice, but I didnt get much help there, as she really didnt know much about what I was talking about.
question is; Is there any way of recouping the money I lost out on? (I have breaks of more then 26 weeks between jobs, which apparently penalises my right to claim back- which is unfair, as 'breaks' are due to lack of jobs not anything else) also has any else being in a similar situation?
any thoughts greatly appreciated

Also apparently if you dont register under the new rules, your payments will be stopped completley.

Does any one else think €90 is too high?

Thanks in advance

rainbowtrout

yogibaby wrote: »

Hey folks

I graduated 5 years ago with Hdip. I have been working p/t casual ever since moving from school to school, getting whatever I can. With the new section 30 being rolled out by DOE, It came to my attention today that I have been paid as an unqualified Teacher ever since I graduated. I did sign up with Teaching Council when I graduated but never took much notice of actually registering as I could never afford the €90 and didnt realise what implications it was having on me.

Thanks in advance

First off, you don't seem very willing to take any responsibility for yourself and your situation.

What exactly does the bit I've put in bold mean? Because you are either registered with the TC or you're not. There's no signing up with them. Everyone who wants to teach has to register with the Teaching Council. I accept that you may not have had regular work, but what do you think all of the other people who are subbing do for the fee. It's about €1.75 a week. Should you have special treatment because you say you can't afford it?

yogibaby wrote: »

Hey folks

I graduated 5 years ago with Hdip. I have been working p/t casual ever since moving from school to school, getting whatever I can. With the new section 30 being rolled out by DOE, It came to my attention today that I have been paid as an unqualified Teacher ever since I graduated.
Thanks in advance

How has it taken you 5 years to figure out what rate you are being paid at? It would say it on your payslip.

yogibaby wrote: »

I tried phoning a number of unions today, only to get some snotty receptionist who would not allow me to seek advice(even though I told her I was not looking for advice just information) unless I had joined the Union, for another €50 euro!! its crazy!

Why should she give you advice? Union members pay their dues to be able to avail of the service when they need it. You want that same service for free. Again if you want to use the services of the unions, start paying for them. In the meantime read the information that is freely available on their websites

yogibaby wrote: »

Also apparently if you dont register under the new rules, your payments will be stopped completley.

Does any one else think €90 is too high?

Thanks in advance

The stopping of payments has been long established for unregistered teachers, it's only that it is being brought into force in 2013.

The fee for the TC was reduced to €65 this year.






You should just get your paperwork in order as requested by the Teaching Council if you want to be paid.

yogibaby

a little harsh Rainbowtrout, and I think you have missed a lot of my points
but let me reply as simply as I can

- the Teaching council have not alerted on their website that the fee has been reduced to €65. In fact its states its €90, which they are quite proud of that fact that they have not increased it since 2008.
- I have never had any payments stopped for not been registered. This is a new law that is being rolled out only this year(by xmas or after Jan), Unless the TC were lying on the phone to me earlier.
- I have never been registered with the TC. yes there is a sign up facility. A Rep visited college in 2007 and I signed up for the council to have access to my degree transcripts. I also filled out a vetting form. But I never paid €90 to officially register.
- I did state in my OP that I worked on the higher rate for a private school. As the rates for unqualified teachers have only recently been slashed forgive me for not noticing the small difference of €2 between lower and higher rates. I noticed now, as the difference is so much more. And I have not been working until this Aug to notice. Also with taxes, USCs etc etc,.
- The unions are obliged to offer once off information to see if your case is viable. I know this as I phoned TUI today and they told me that. TUI dont deal with my school. But were very surprised to hear that ASTI would now even speak to me without a teachers number. I frankly think its ignorant. Im not looking for a freebie at all, so please dont jump to conclusions. Im more than willing to pay, but whats the point if I have no case. Also FYI, I havent joined a union because different unions represent different schools. There is not much point in committing to one union, if I could be in 4 different schools in any one year. What sense would that make?

yogibaby

http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/registration/registration-renewal.198.html

'The Council is a self-funding body. It is funded primarily by annual registration renewal fees, as provided for in Section 23 of the Teaching Council Act, 2001. With effect from 28 March 2008, the annual registration renewal fee has been set at €90.'

seavill

Rainbowtrout is incorrect on one point but correct on the others. TC reg. fee is still €90 this year but will be reduced to 65 next year.

For the part about the union - if you are just looking for information try google, all the information is there loads of circulars on the department website, union websites etc. You rang the union looking for advice, like you are doing here, and rightly so you were told where to go. I detest paying the union fees but why should I pay if any joe soap can ring up and get the advice for free. Your problem not theirs.

As for the registration, what did you sign up to at the start? Do you mean you registered while still in college as a student with a provisional registration but then didn't continue your reg after this? I graduated 6 years ago and even then everyone knew what the story was with the teaching council. For the last 6 years i have been hearing that if you are not registered you don't get paid, this has been a lie up to now but will be true soon enough. You must have been living under a rock for the last 5 years if you knew nothing about this.
Again your problem not the TC for once. You have failed to register or stay registered for the last 5 years, your fault.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I was always under the impression with a contract paid directly by a private school that they can pay you what you want? If this is the case i would wonder are you actually owed back pay.

I have found the DoE payroll department staff to always be extremely helpful any time I have needed to call them, sometimes they have procedures they have to follow but always found them friendly and helpful, maybe the problem was the way you spoke with them or something.
One problem with payroll is that it does always take a long time to get set up this happens in VEC and department paid schools. It is very frustrating but it is something that every teacher has to initially deal with

In relation to registering with the TC now, make sure you have all your documents, transcripts etc, as all of this will delay the registration process.
Garda vetting always takes a long time to be honest 10 weeks is short compared to some instances. Again delays in the Garda vetting is not the fault of the TC it is the fault of the government.
Dual Garda vetting is a stupid situation I do agree with you there. However, your principal should be fully aware of this. I have proof from the TC that I am vetted etc. however this would not suffice for a new position I took up last year, I had to get vetted through the JMB also.

Getting money back again I would wonder are you owed any, but I could have this completely wrong.

Yes 90 is too high always has been but in all fairness you can hardly moan about it you didn't bother paying for the last 5 years when the rest of us did so you have saved €450 up to now so I'm sure you will manage the 90 this year. As i said it is reducing to 65 next year.

These "new rules" you keep referring to have been spoken about since you were still in college so I fail to see how you have completely missed out on all the information about it. You mention you signed up originally so you knew something just didn't bother paying, take some responsibility

dory

Rainbotrout just took a lot of words out of my mounth. How have you been working for 5 years and not have this sorted? And why would the TC accept someone elses garda vetting? If they let everyone do their own vetting there wouldn't be much point to it all. Just get your ducks in a row and you'll be grand.

yogibaby

I didnt post on here to argue, I thought I would receive some impartial mature advice/info
not unfounded opinions that are really verging on being bit rude. (living under a rock, irresponsible?)
something tells me your pissed off as my payments should have been stopped due to non registration
as you have paid your fees.. and also because you pay your union fees
if thats the case, discussion is closed.
also...
'new rules' are the new regulations/laws that TC have brought out only this year,amoungst some of the other drastic changes made by new government. So forgive me but I consider them new.
The DOE are quite friendly indeed, but they have made so so many mistakes with my tax credits. They even issued the wrong info to the tax office, dates that were completely incorrect. Dates they just made up of their own accord. This went on for weeks. Every time I phoned I was given conflicting advice. Their payment methods and cross checking with revenue is archaic. 'The way I spoke to them' is most certainly NOT the case!
you have also missed my point.. I said I was willing to join union, but only if it was worth my while. The TUI and INTO agree with me!!
I admit it was shortsighted of me not to register initially, (but why would I, when I tought I was getting fully paid without any implications?) I did not dispute that, and don't think its for you to dispute either, in fact I didnt ask your opinion on that. what I raised was the possibility of recouping any money owed to me.
Case Closed
Thanks

seavill

yogibaby wrote: »

I didnt post on here to argue, I thought I would receive some impartial mature advice/info
not unfounded opinions that are really verging on being bit rude. (living under a rock, irresponsible?)
something tells me your pissed off as my payments should have been stopped due to non registration
as you have paid your fees.. and also because you pay your union fees
if thats the case, discussion is closed.
also...
'new rules' are the new regulations/laws that TC have brought out only this year,amoungst some of the other drastic changes made by new government. So forgive me but I consider them new.
The DOE are quite friendly indeed, but they have made so so many mistakes with my tax credits. They even issued the wrong info to the tax office, dates that were completely incorrect. Dates they just made up of their own accord. This went on for weeks. Every time I phoned I was given conflicting advice. Their payment methods and cross checking with revenue is archaic. 'The way I spoke to them' is most certainly NOT the case!
you have also missed my point.. I said I was willing to join union, but only if it was worth my while. The TUI and INTO agree with me!!
I admit it was shortsighted of me not to register initially, (but why would I, when I tought I was getting fully paid without any implications?) I did not dispute that, and don't think its for you to dispute either, in fact I didnt ask your opinion on that. what I raised was the possibility of recouping any money owed to me.
Case Closed
Thanks

If you read my post carefully you will see I offered you advice on making sure you had everything sorted pre TC.
I said payroll is a nightmare initially. You called them incompetent I said I always found them very helpful and good.
I agreed with you 90 is too high and explained to you where rainbowtrout went wrong.
I did say the new rules were to come in next year as you seemed unclear I was clarifying, my point was your post gives off the impression that you knew nothing about them up to this point, maybe you did not mean it to come across that way.

I did offer my advice/opinion in relation to the back pay issue, no one, including you, have not come back with any contradictory advice so maybe look into what I was saying as they may or may not be correct.

I am not pissed off why would your payments have been stopped up to this point? that makes no sense the law has not been passed fully yet. everyone knows that, they have no way of stopping anyones pay until it has been fully put through.

in relation to the union, most people join to avail of the benefits and protection in case they are ever needed, not just if they need them they will then look into joining as it may be too late for help at that stage. This was my point in relation to the union. If you want the help join up (as you say you have no bother paying) they may in the future help you in other situations and you will haev their backing. If you leave it until something happens you may not be fully covered in this regard.

" in fact I didnt ask your opinion on that. what I raised was the possibility of recouping any money owed to me. "
yes and I tried to answer this but maybe you missed it check my last post.

You wrote a long OP where you brought up many points. I discussed those points, if you did not want them discussed why mention them at all just ask the question you want answered. You are on a discussion forum, you will get varying opinions on that, maybe ones you do not fully agree with, however calling me rude etc. does not help, the tone of your first and subsequent posts and attacking people offering advice does not help.

whiteandlight

Can I ask everyone to take a deep breath on this one please.

OP if you read those replies carefully they do have a lot of information you will need.



The act requiring you to be registered in order to be paid has been pending for several years and has been discussed widely in the media and staff rooms. I qualified 4 years ago and was warned by the TC who came in to speak to us during the PGDE. In the VEC schools I've worked in for the last year we have been informed in writing, and verbally on more than one occasion that if we are not registered we will not get paid from September this year. Anecdotally this is also the case in secondary schools as my parents both teach in those and are well aware of it. I had also been warned over two years ago when I was working in a private school in Dublin. This is why those replying to you are sceptical that you are only finding out now.

The unfortunate reality is you did not (according to your own information) ever register with the teaching council. You will now have to jump through any hoop they require of you and there is no advice we can give you that will help.

Send your information in to the teaching council ASAP. Deliver it to their office in Maynooth if that is possible for you. Send any further information they request immediately back to them. Fill in your Garda vetting form and get it in the post tomorrow.

There is no quick way around this. You weren't registered and now you need to be.


Also the payroll department have nothing to do with the TC and the tax credit issue is irrelevant here. You need to provide them with your teaching council number valid and paid to date. The arguement regarding back pay can only be discussed then but tbh I suspect you are not entitled to it.

F.A.S.H

Musicmental85 wrote: »

Can I ask everyone to take a deep breath on this one please.

The arguement regarding back pay can only be discussed then but tbh I suspect you are not entitled to it.

First point is excellent advice Musicmental! Just one last thing on the back pay. I am an NQT who was only being paid the unqualified rate, I told the TC this, and the date I graduated (a year previously, as I was away), and they told me they WILL pay me back pay, so you may be entitled to some of it back.

In the long run, you need to join the Teaching Council and you also need to join a union ( for your own sake, they back you up if (god forbid)anything goes wrong!) It's not a waste of money in the end.

P.S I also have found the majority of both Teaching Council and D.O.E. employees to be most unhelpful and downright rude sometimes. I have had a lot of dealing with them over the past few weeks, and several of my friends have said the same. But it is unfair to tar them all with the same brush(esp, a lovely fella named Barry i think, he was the most helpful and friendly out've them all)

spurious

Join one of the two unions involved in second level teaching.
I don't know where you got the idea they only represent you in one school - that is not true.

In fact the union I am a member of has represented non-members in the past, when it was an issue we could see affecting members in our Branch.

rainbowtrout

seavill wrote: »

Rainbowtrout is incorrect on one point but correct on the others. TC reg. fee is still €90 this year but will be reduced to 65 next year.

Thanks. I remember getting a bit of glossy paper from them earlier this year saying the fee was being reduced and it was just after I had paid this year's subscription so I assumed it was reduced this year. My mistake.

rainbowtrout

yogibaby wrote: »

a little harsh Rainbowtrout, and I think you have missed a lot of my points
but let me reply as simply as I can

- the Teaching council have not alerted on their website that the fee has been reduced to €65. In fact its states its €90, which they are quite proud of that fact that they have not increased it since 2008.

Nope. I didn't miss any of your points. As you can see seavill has clarified the 90 v 65 fee, but the point remains: you still haven't registered and that responsibility lies with you and no one else.

yogibaby wrote: »

- I have never had any payments stopped for not been registered. This is a new law that is being rolled out only this year(by xmas or after Jan), Unless the TC were lying on the phone to me earlier.

No, this is a law that has existed for a number of years but is finally signed into legislation and being enforced from next year. It is nigh on impossible not to have heard of it if you have qualified as a teacher in the last 5-6 years.

yogibaby wrote: »

- I have never been registered with the TC. yes there is a sign up facility. A Rep visited college in 2007 and I signed up for the council to have access to my degree transcripts. I also filled out a vetting form. But I never paid €90 to officially register.

Again, the responsibility lies with you to register. We all have to do it. If you want to get paid in January, get your paperwork sorted. You will not be given special treatment if you have not done so. You have had 5 years to do this and have not done so. You should consider yourself lucky that you have been getting subbing work in all of that time as many schools/VECs are looking for TC registration for teachers they hire. If you do not register soon you will not be employable in January.

yogibaby wrote: »

- The unions are obliged to offer once off information to see if your case is viable. I know this as I phoned TUI today and they told me that. TUI dont deal with my school. But were very surprised to hear that ASTI would now even speak to me without a teachers number. I frankly think its ignorant. Im not looking for a freebie at all, so please dont jump to conclusions. Im more than willing to pay, but whats the point if I have no case. Also FYI, I havent joined a union because different unions represent different schools. There is not much point in committing to one union, if I could be in 4 different schools in any one year. What sense would that make?

But that's exactly what you were looking for: advice from the union without paying a subscription. A union can represent you in any school. Also that comment about 'I'm more than willing to pay but what's the point if I have no case'. That's more crap. You may as well say, 'I'm only going to subscribe when I need help, but to hell with paying them the rest of the time'. It doesn't work like that. Either become a member, pay your subscription and avail of their services whenever you want them and need them, or don't pay and accept the situation that they will not help you.

I'm permanent and as such don't have much need for union services with regard pay and conditions. I'm not in danger of losing my job or being pushed out to make room for a new teacher, but I still pay my subscription to have their services available to me should I ever need them.

seavill

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Thanks. I remember getting a bit of glossy paper from them earlier this year saying the fee was being reduced and it was just after I had paid this year's subscription so I assumed it was reduced this year. My mistake.

Yea the only reason I know is because my renewal is up the end of November so still paying the 90 for this year unfortunately