Prison officer killed in suspect dissident ambush

golden lane

how can we have a united ireland in the near future......

the blame game gets people nowhere.......only the rule of law will allow a happy future for the whole island....

junder

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

But you're the one who made this into a sectarian debate?

Show me where I used any sort of sectarian language?

.jacksparrow.

junder wrote: »

Show me where I used any sort of sectarian language?

That's not what I said.I said your the one who started all this sectarian talk by your insistence it was to do with the man's religion,even though there is little evidence to suggest this.

Scofflaw

Scofflaw wrote:

This thread looks it's descending into standard NI trench warfare - which will attract the standard "fine tooth comb and ban hammer" moderation result if not walked away from pretty sharpish.

junder wrote: »

Show me where I used any sort of sectarian language?

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

That's not what I said.I said your the one who started all this sectarian talk by your insistence it was to do with the man's religion,even though there is little evidence to suggest this.

Yes, specifically you two, I think, although there are a number of other dishonourable mentions who will be getting red cards, and possibly bans if required.

Banned 3 days apiece.

moderately,
Scofflaw

GRMA

“On Thursday, 1st of November, 2012, an active service unit of the IRA executed prison guard David Black.

“While the IRA never takes this type of action lightly, the IRA has a responsibility to protect and defend republican POWs.

“This action was in direct response to the torture and degradation of POWs held in Maghaberry.

“The issues that led to the IRA taking action might have been avoided if his ‘superiors’ had honoured the agreement they signed with prisoners in August 2010.”

“Rather than showing the leadership necessary to resolve the protest in Maghaberry they continue to play politics with the lives of republican POWs and indeed their own guards and PCOs.

“Similarly, the charade of hypocritical condemnation from the local political classes does nothing to resolve the issues created by their inactions.”

IRA statement

oscarBravo

It's amazing how you can build an entire edifice of bull**** on a small foundation of delusion. You start by inventing a country that only exists in the deranged imaginations of a handful of people, which allows you to give your imaginary country an army. Seeing as you have an imaginary army, you can dress up acts of terrorism as acts of war, and terrorists as POWs rather than criminals; and you can describe the cold-blooded murder of a good and decent man as the "execution" of a "torturer".

Best of all, you can play the petulant wife-beater's "why do you make me do it?" card.

Such princes among men.

GRMA

oscarBravo wrote: »

It's amazing how you can build an entire edifice of bull**** on a small foundation of delusion. You start by inventing a country that only exists in the deranged imaginations of a handful of people, which allows you to give your imaginary country an army. Seeing as you have an imaginary army, you can dress up acts of terrorism as acts of war, and terrorists as POWs rather than criminals; and you can describe the cold-blooded murder of a good and decent man as the "execution" of a "torturer".

Best of all, you can play the petulant wife-beater's "why do you make me do it?" card.

Such princes among men.

The treatment prisoners are getting does qualify as torture in some cases, such as Marian Prices solitary confinement etc... but on the whole I agree with you, it's mad.

Given the escalation in the prison this was an easily prevented inevitability. Thats not excusing it, tis like mistreating a dangerous animal, its gonna bite.

oscarBravo

GRMA wrote: »

The treatment prisoners are getting does qualify as torture in some cases, such as Marian Prices solitary confinement etc... but on the whole I agree with you, it's mad.

Rational human beings would deal with alleged torture through legal mechanisms such as the ECHR - but that would deprive the psychopaths of their excuse for murder.

Given the escalation in the prison this was an easily prevented inevitability. Thats not excusing it, tis like mistreating a dangerous animal, its gonna bite.

The comparison to animals - devoid of the capacity for rational thought or empathy - is apt.

junder

Loyalist prisoners and prisoners in general are subject to the same conditions on account of,Erm being in prison.

GRMA

oscarBravo wrote: »

Rational human beings would deal with alleged torture through legal mechanisms such as the ECHR - but that would deprive the psychopaths of their excuse for murder. The comparison to animals - devoid of the capacity for rational thought or empathy - is apt.

In Marian's case it looks like Amnesty is getting involved.#


Also Colin Duffy is taking a case to Europe too.

Thanks, thats why I made it.

Crooked Jack

oscarBravo wrote: »

It's amazing how you can build an entire edifice of bull**** on a small foundation of delusion. You start by inventing a country that only exists in the deranged imaginations of a handful of people, which allows you to give your imaginary country an army. Seeing as you have an imaginary army, you can dress up acts of terrorism as acts of war, and terrorists as POWs rather than criminals; and you can describe the cold-blooded murder of a good and decent man as the "execution" of a "torturer".

Best of all, you can play the petulant wife-beater's "why do you make me do it?" card.

Such princes among men.

I (like thousands of others) believe wholeheartedly in that "invented" country. Doesn't make me deranged or a criminal. Such broad sweeping statements would not be accepted in any other discussion and I don't think they should be accepted here.

GRMA

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I (like thousands of others) believe wholeheartedly in that "invented" country. Doesn't make me deranged or a criminal. Such broad sweeping statements would not be accepted in any other discussion and I don't think they should be accepted here.

I think he was referring to the concept of republican legitimacy which is were the army council of the CIRA (dunno about the new IRA) claim that the governmental authority of the all Ireland Dáil was passed to them thus they can act as the govt of Ireland etc and the institutions on the stat today are illegitimate.

Or maybe not....but I certainly know that Ireland is one nation, or country, divided.

oscarBravo

GRMA has it right. I respect your right to desire a 32-county Irish republic; I have no respect for those who claim that such a republic exists, has a legitimate army, is at war with Britain, and has the right to "execute" people in its name.

Ash.J.Williams

Gob****es, I'm sure prisoners will get the best of treatment now!

GRMA

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Gob****es, I'm sure prisoners will get the best of treatment now!

Carrying on as usual it seems.

[Note the beard]



RNU have learned that our comrade, Ard Comhairle member Tony Taylor, this morning sustained multiple injuries in what can only be described as a savage attack, launched on him by Prison Officers as he was about to leave Maghaberry Prison en route to Derry Courthouse.

Tony, a former H Block POW (who suffers greatly from internal injuries sustained in an explosion) was to learn today whether or not the case against him would proceed, just last week a ‘PE hearing’ heard that little or no evidence existed against him and it is our opinion that he may well have been released this morning had he made his way to court.

He did not get that chance however. As he was about to leave Maghaberry we understand that a savage attack was launched on him by the prison search team under the guise of a ‘routine strip search’.

RNU members travelling to Derry for the hearing were informed by friends of Tony’s that his hearing would not now go ahead, as Tony had been kept in Maghaberry to receive medical treatment due to the beating, specifically for a suspected broken hand.

It is our belief that Prison Officers were aware that Tony was on the verge of release; the day of his last hearing coincided with the death of David Black and on that occasion anger on the faces of prison officers surrounding Tony was apparent. RNU were concerned from that point on that Tony would bear the brunt of their aggression.

This morning it appears that Maghaberry staff did in fact take their aggression out on a lone, vulnerable protesting prisoner, and as a result he was denied the opportunity to face court and gain his rightful freedom.

RNU again call for an immediate end to barbaric Strip Searching procedures in Maghaberry prison, and for the release of Tony Taylor.

Death and Taxes

GRMA wrote: »

IRA statement

Statement from a bunch of organized crime heads with no political or electoral mandate!

Mr.Micro

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Statement from a bunch of organized crime heads with no political or electoral mandate!

Who do not respect or believe in democracy.

mcc1

GRMA wrote: »

Carrying on as usual it seems.

Was there really any need for them to write all that nonsense. I could have described it better and in alot less words. Here it goes -

Prison officers today attempted to do a routine search on Tony Taylor to make sure he wasn't carrying any weapons on him before being put in a van to go to court. Tony Taylor refused to allow prison officers to carry out this routine task which is carried out on ALL prisoners who are about leave for court.

In the melee which ensued because Tony refused to allow the prison officers to do a routine search Tony Taylor injured himself while lashing out at prison officers who tried to restrain him.

The Prison Officers worried that Tony may have hurt himself while lashing out at them decided he needed medical attention.

---

Simple...... But of course his Republican supporters felt the need to spin in such a way to make it look as though a vulnerable prisoner was attacked for absolutely no reason by big bad vicious Prison Officers :O When in actual fact it was no doubt him who injured himself while lashing out at the Prison Officers because he didn't want them to do a routine search...............

.jacksparrow.

mcc1 wrote: »

Was there really any need for them to write all that nonsense. I could have described it better and in alot less words. Here it goes -

Prison officers today attempted to do a routine search on Tony Taylor to make sure he wasn't carrying any weapons on him before being put in a van to go to court. Tony Taylor refused to allow prison officers to carry out this routine task which is carried out on ALL prisoners who are about leave for court.

In the melee which ensued because Tony refused to allow the prison officers to do a routine search Tony Taylor injured himself while lashing out at prison officers who tried to restrain him.

The Prison Officers worried that Tony may have hurt himself while lashing out at them decided he needed medical attention.

---

Simple...... But of course his Republican supporters felt the need to spin in such a way to make it look as though a vulnerable prisoner was attacked for absolutely no reason by big bad vicious Prison Officers :O When in actual fact it was no doubt him who injured himself while lashing out at the Prison Officers because he didn't want them to do a routine search...............

Wow brilliant.

Crooked Jack

mcc1 wrote: »

Was there really any need for them to write all that nonsense. I could have described it better and in alot less words. Here it goes -

Prison officers today attempted to do a routine search on Tony Taylor to make sure he wasn't carrying any weapons on him before being put in a van to go to court. Tony Taylor refused to allow prison officers to carry out this routine task which is carried out on ALL prisoners who are about leave for court.

In the melee which ensued because Tony refused to allow the prison officers to do a routine search Tony Taylor injured himself while lashing out at prison officers who tried to restrain him.

The Prison Officers worried that Tony may have hurt himself while lashing out at them decided he needed medical attention.

---

Simple...... But of course his Republican supporters felt the need to spin in such a way to make it look as though a vulnerable prisoner was attacked for absolutely no reason by big bad vicious Prison Officers :O When in actual fact it was no doubt him who injured himself while lashing out at the Prison Officers because he didn't want them to do a routine search...............

There is a danger here though that in demonising these guys and just dismissing everything they say that the state is being let off the hook and genuine grievances are getting ignored. I'm not saying they are, I'm just saying if the default mode is that anything to do with these guys is a lie then that gives the state an awful lot of room to do whatever they want.
I mean it's not as if the northern prison service has an impeccable record.

junder

As I already pointed out loyalist and indeed normal prisoners are subject to exactly the same rules as republican. It's republicans that want to be treated differently, they want to return to the days of the maze when they had free run of thier blocks

Death and Taxes

I wonder if the psycho scum that murdered Mr Black are the same ones who left a bomb outside a primary school in Belfast yesterday?
Real heroes these guys, you have to admire their bravery:mad:
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20296706

.jacksparrow.

WileyCoyote wrote: »

I wonder if the psycho scum that murdered Mr Black are the same ones who left a bomb outside a primary school in Belfast yesterday?
Real heroes these guys, you have to admire their bravery:mad:
[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20296706

Ok there is no evidence to say who it was plus it might not even be a bomb,as police said yesterday.wait and see the outcome before pointing the finger.

Death and Taxes

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Ok there is no evidence to say who it was plus it might not even be a bomb,as police said yesterday.wait and see the outcome before pointing the finger.

Firstly it WAS a bomb, there is no question about that. I note the opening sentence of the earlier linked BBC NI report "A bomb found near a primary school"!The only question is whether it was a booby trap that feel from a passing vehicle or whether it was deliberatley left there, I suggest you reread the report.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/bomb-found-near-belfast-school-designed-to-maim-and-kill-574003.html
Secondly, I didn't point the finger , I asked a question.

oscarBravo

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Ok there is no evidence to say who it was plus it might not even be a bomb,as police said yesterday.wait and see the outcome before pointing the finger.

It was a bomb. The we'd-rather-kill-people-than-have-any-truck-with-that-democracy-rubbish brigade strike again.

gallag

Imagine searching a prisioner before taking him to court, who do these bastards think they are subjecting a prisioner to the same standard protocols as all other prisoners. All these brave men want to do is kill prisioner officers, police men (because they are catholic) put bombs outside schools and shoot unarmed squadeys getting some pizza and be treated completely different in prison. Is that to much to ask for?

.jacksparrow.

gallag wrote: »

Imagine searching a prisioner before taking him to court, who do these bastards think they are subjecting a prisioner to the same standard protocols as all other prisoners. All these brave men want to do is kill prisioner officers, police men (because they are catholic) put bombs outside schools and shoot unarmed squadeys getting some pizza and be treated completely different in prison. Is that to much to ask for?

If only the situation was as simple and black and white as this.

Death and Taxes

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

If only the situation was as simple and black and white as this.

Are you ready to admit that there was a bomb found outside a school in Belfast yesterday, or are you still denying that?

.jacksparrow.

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Are you ready to admit that there was a bomb found outside a school in Belfast yesterday, or are you still denying that?

No there was a bomb found but it wasn't planted outside the School deliberately,nonetheless it is a idiotic thing to happen.

Are you gonna presume its dissident republicans without any evidence or source?

Death and Taxes

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

No there was a bomb found but it wasn't planted outside the School deliberately,nonetheless it is a idiotic thing to happen.

Are you gonna presume its dissident republicans without any evidence or source?

Yes I'm going to presume that the organized crime gang that have been shooting and planting bombs in the recent past are responsible until someone shows me different.

.jacksparrow.

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Yes I'm going to presume that the organized crime gang that have been shooting and planting bombs in the recent past are responsible until someone shows me different.

Not the other organised crime gang who threw bottles and stones at kids as young as 4 2 years ago,all because of the route the kids took to school?

Ye I think ill hold off blaming anyone just yet.

oscarBravo

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

...nonetheless it is a idiotic thing to happen.

Not idiotic. Evil, despicable and reprehensible.

"Idiotic" makes it sound like some klutz left a bomb outside a school by accident, and if he was a bit more careful where he left his bombs, wouldn't it all be grand?

Are you gonna presume its dissident republicans without any evidence or source?

Yeah, it would be deeply unfair to assume that dissident republicans could have such a callous disregard for innocent life.

Mr.Micro

oscarBravo wrote: »

Not idiotic. Evil, despicable and reprehensible.

"Idiotic" makes it sound like some klutz left a bomb outside a school by accident, and if he was a bit more careful where he left his bombs, wouldn't it all be grand? Yeah, it would be deeply unfair to assume that dissident republicans could have such a callous disregard for innocent life.

It would appear that some individuals, assuming its the new IRA will do anything to start up the trouble in NI again. How can anybody in their right mind support such creatures, I will not deem to call them human or even insult animals?

GRMA

I think there is more to be gained from examining their motivations and grievances and perhaps, where practicable, remove the reasons for their actions than just condemning them in increasingly more damning and extravagant ways.

Mr.Micro

GRMA wrote: »

I think there is more to be gained from examining their motivations and grievances and perhaps, where practicable, remove the reasons for their actions than just condemning them in increasingly more damning and extravagant ways.

Like the grievances everybody has in life , be they prisoners, poor, old or young. Most people do not ever resort to murders or plant bombs etc to air their grievances. Too much lip service has been paid to the men of violence, many who think that democracy and all its faults is too harsh. Tough.... join the rest of us.

GRMA

I'm sure that's a massive consolation to Mr Blacks family, a man who's death could have been easily prevented. That's whats the worst thing about this, it could be seen coming from a mile off. People have been warning, even on this forum, over the past 12 months about the worrying escalation of things in the jail and that something needed to be done to defuse the situation and avoid this horrible eventuality. But they have been ignored. These people can't be condemned away. But if you remove some of the motivations they have, such as in the jail, things can be kept to an absolute minimum. Remember the prison agreed to changes which were highlighted at the time by the powers that be as a wonderful move:

“The welfare, safety and security of both staff and prisoners were central to the discussions and I’m pleased that an agreement has been reached which allows for revised arrangements and procedures, but in no way dilutes the security of the prison or those who work and live there,” Justice Minister David Ford said.

Thats what he said about the agreement, but the PO's and others decided to scrap it almost immediately, due to pure vindictiveness and intransigence.

.jacksparrow.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Like the grievances everybody has in life , be they prisoners, poor, old or young. Most people do not ever resort to murders or plant bombs etc to air their grievances. Too much lip service has been paid to the men of violence, many who think that democracy and all its faults is too harsh. Tough.... join the rest of us.

Tell that to the iraqis or afghans,or even vietnamnese who died innocently because the UK or the USA had personal or hidden motives.

These countries have blood on their hands a million times over.

Mr.Micro

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Tell that to the iraqis or afghans,or even vietnamnese who died innocently because the UK or the USA had personal or hidden motives.

These countries have blood on their hands k million times over.

Not quite sure what any of that has to do with this thread tbh.

.jacksparrow.

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Not quite sure what any of that has to do with this thread tbh.

You said most people don't resort to violence if they have differences etc,I'm merely pointing out these wars where millions have died,which illustrates a lot of people do actually resort to violence to air theirdifferences,the world over.

And these countries practice democracy,something you mentioned.

Mr.Micro

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

You said most people don't resort to violence if they have differences etc,I'm merely pointing out these wars where millions have died,which illustrates a lot of people do actually resort to violence to air theirdifferences,the world over.

And these countries practice democracy,something you mentioned.

Governments are a different matter and often do as they will, once elected, without or without the will of the people. Blair used every trick in the book to have his war and Bush was going no matter what.

Its the citizens who do not, or cannot under the law, commit or use violence or murder to air their grievances, and only use whatever adequate redress to try and solve their complaints.

oscarBravo

GRMA wrote: »

These people can't be condemned away. But if you remove some of the motivations they have, such as in the jail, things can be kept to an absolute minimum.

...aaand, we're off with the "I don't agree with their methods but if we just give them whatever they want, maybe they'll stop terrorising us" weasel words.

It's straight out of the organised crime "you got a nice family, be a shame if anything happened to them" protection racket playbook.

gallag

Jack sparrow and grma, at this point surely you will not deny supporting the dissidents and their actions? Or will you still be to cowardly to admit your believes. Every post you guys make is in support or excusing their actions, or diverting the blame etc even to the point of saying "give them what they want or suffer the consequences" you even know their actions are scummy and wrong, that's why you can't admit your support. Thankfully you are insignificant, and these dissidents will soon fade out. They are not wanted by any section of the community and the look on their wee faces when the were protesting outside the meeting between the lower falls residents and the police service of N.Ireland about steeping up security to protect the area and it's people was priceless.

GRMA

oscarBravo wrote: »

...aaand, we're off with the "I don't agree with their methods but if we just give them whatever they want, maybe they'll stop terrorising us" weasel words.

It's straight out of the organised crime "you got a nice family, be a shame if anything happened to them" protection racket playbook.

Leave that sh!te out.

It makes perfect sense to do everything possible to starve these people of support and propaganda, don't you agree? Running the prison better, the way that was agreed, read how the justice minister described it, would have stopped this from happening.

Im not saying anything drastic, it's small simple things.

Mr.Micro

GRMA wrote: »

Leave that sh!te out.

It makes perfect sense to do everything possible to starve these people of support and propaganda, don't you agree? Running the prison better, the way that was agreed, read how the justice minister described it, would have stopped this from happening.

Im not saying anything drastic, it's small simple things.

Where does society draw the line with appeasement for so called political prisoners.... or else.

oscarBravo

GRMA wrote: »

Leave that sh!te out.

Um, no. I'm calling it as I see it. If you want to pretend there's something noble about this particular gang of organised criminal psychopaths just because they wrap themselves in a green flag and spout the same rubbish cant that has been used to justify murder for the last century, feel free. I have no intention of buying into it.

It makes perfect sense to do everything possible to starve these people of support and propaganda, don't you agree?

Everything possible? No. It shouldn't be necessary to bribe people not to support murderers; anyone with a conscience should be able to reject everything they stand for without hesitation.

Running the prison better, the way that was agreed, read how the justice minister described it, would have stopped this from happening.

And the battered wife could have avoided her beating - this time - by having the dinner on the table thirty seconds earlier. Sure, it was wrong of the husband to hit her - but she should have known better.

If the conditions in the prison are less than optimal, then they should be improved for reasons of humanity, not because some self-appointed vigilantes are demanding that it be done.

The murder of a prison officer is completely inexcusable and unforgivable, and wheeling out the whole "it could have been prevented by pandering to terrorists" line is the sort of tacit support that allows the terrorists to continue to function. It's a wheedling excuse that's pretending not to be an excuse, and you can't claim that something is inexcusable while simultaneously excusing it.

gallag

GRMA wrote: »

I've reported your comment because frankly that's a very offensive thing you've said, not to mention defamatory. You are of course, wrong. I don't support them.

But you obviously do, I present all of your posts as evidence to support my claim.

gallag

I was wondering, Can Sinn Fein/IRA control these gangsters? Was just wondering because I seen on the news Sinn Fein did not seem happy they were using the IRA name? Are the drug dealers/dissidents to big? Is Sinn Fein/IRA toothless?

the_syco

In wonder if the "new IRA" was given the blessing from PIRA, or if they're just RIRA under a new name with a few extra people? If they didn't get PIRA's blessing, and are using the name as it sounds cool, I can see some of them getting warned.

I doubt that SF will want to be seen as representing the new IRA, as they've been trying to look like politicians and not terrorists for the past 13 years.

As for the killing of the prison officer; I say it will help in the groups aim of having more UK soldiers in NI.

GRMA

the_syco wrote: »

In wonder if the "new IRA" was given the blessing from PIRA, or if they're just RIRA under a new name with a few extra people? If they didn't get PIRA's blessing, and are using the name as it sounds cool, I can see some of them getting warned.

I doubt that SF will want to be seen as representing the new IRA, as they've been trying to look like politicians and not terrorists for the past 13 years.

As for the killing of the prison officer; I say it will help in the groups aim of having more UK soldiers in NI.

That.

They amalgamated with RAAD and a few independents apparently.

Crooked Jack

gallag wrote: »

I was wondering, Can Sinn Fein/IRA control these gangsters? Was just wondering because I seen on the news Sinn Fein did not seem happy they were using the IRA name? Are the drug dealers/dissidents to big? Is Sinn Fein/IRA toothless?

the IRA hasnt existed as a military force since 2005. "sinn fein/IRA" has never existed.
It never ceases to amaze me how laughably childish people can be when it comes to these issues. Nearly 13 years on and people like you are still trying to score points. grow up