Waterford Airport.

JCX BXC

JohnC. wrote: »

Isn't Dublin - London the second busiest international corridor in the world, second only to Hong Kong - Taipei?

That was the case a few years ago, not sure if still is

road_high

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Another 6 month wonder.

Let's hope not. The previous routes were quite well used according to sources here, no reason why a decent London route can't do the same again.

hardybuck

I'm surprised that a route to either Glasgow or Edinburgh never materialised. You'd imagine a lot of people with connections to the region are working or studying there before tourism was factored in.

dzilla

Kotek Besar wrote: »

You don't have to apologise, but I think you're wrong. DSA is a perfect regional airport from flights to and from WAT, for many reasons, as I've stated. You can obsess with LTN all you like, that's your choice.

I am not obsessed with LTN at all tbh, this is something you mentioned. Do you per chance have a link or source to back that one up. For me any London airport would suffice including Birmingham, once there is rail connectivity to the City.

road_high

Read a headline earlier that Knock Ireland West is getting a further 15 million for various upgrades. Enda Kenny and Michael Ring have certainly milked the state for various pet projects up there over recent years...

Masala

road_high wrote: »

Read a headline earlier that Knock Ireland West is getting a further 15 million for various upgrades. Enda Kenny and Michael Ring have certainly milked the state for various pet projects up there over recent years...

Link????? €15m seems over the top.

914

https://www.oceanfm.ie/2017/11/20/major-new-works-start-at-ireland-west-airport/

"Work has started on €15 million worth of work over the next three years to transform Ireland West Airport.

The money will be spent providing new passenger facilities and upgrading terminals, as well as other improvements across the airport, including to the runway.

By the end of March next year, almost €4m worth of major infrastrcutural projects will be completed at the airport.

Work to be completed between now and 2019 include upgrading of car parks, new toilet facilities, providing a covered aircraft passenger boarding stairs, remodelling of the immigration, arrivals and departures areas, and new flight information display screens.

There will also be improved retail and catering facilities, upgrading the existing runway instrument landing system and full resurfacing of the airports 2,400 metre runway, which is 30 years old.

The latest development plan follows the completion of a number of safety and security related projects totalling more than €2.5m last year.

Donal Healy, head of marketing at the airport, says the work will also be a big boost for the local economy."

notharrypotter

Masala wrote: »

Link????? €15m seems over the top.

Google is your friend
http://http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/43063-work-gets-underway-on-15-million-euro-investment-aimed-at-transforming-ireland-west-airport-knock-over-the-next-3-years

Masala

notharrypotter wrote: »

Google is your friend
http://http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/43063-work-gets-underway-on-15-million-euro-investment-aimed-at-transforming-ireland-west-airport-knock-over-the-next-3-years

That doesn't say that they getting €15m in 'grants'

They may have a spending plan but that doesn't mean that it is all being grant aided. You can be sure that Car Parks, Info Screens, immigration facilities will not be grant aided.

notharrypotter

Masala wrote: »

That doesn't say that they getting €15m in 'grants'

They may have a spending plan but that doesn't mean that it is all being grant aided. You can be sure that Car Parks, Info Screens, immigration facilities will not be grant aided.

Want to bet on it?

Masala

notharrypotter wrote: »

Want to bet on it?

You can put your house on it..... the Govt are not into funding investment in money generating facilities that have no safety of security risk. Car Parks have to be funded from car park profits. Why would Knock get a grant for Car Park machines and a multi-story car park operation have to pay for their own upgrades???

notharrypotter

Masala wrote: »

You can put your house on it..... the Govt are not into funding investment in money generating facilities that have no safety of security risk. Car Parks have to be funded from car park profits. Why would Knock get a grant for Car Park machines and a multi-story car park operation have to pay for their own upgrades???

You would be amazed as to what can be justified under "safety enhancements"

Masala

notharrypotter wrote: »

You would be amazed as to what can be justified under "safety enhancements"

You be some smooth operator if you could blag the Govertment that 250 new car spaces are needed for the safe operation of a Ryanair aircraft!!

CeilingFly

In fairness, Knock airport is profitable and expects almost 800,000 passenger movements this year and expects to grow to over 1,000,000 within 5 years.

Of course they will get some grant aid for development - but it will show in increased economic benefits.

Waterford airport has been getting huge financial aid and can't even get a single scheduled flight.

Squidvicious

Are we sure that there will be flights in the near future? I know that there was news a week or so back but there's still nothing on the airport website. Nothing on the Backbone Aviation website either. Is this another false dawn?

dzilla

Squidvicious wrote: »

Are we sure that there will be flights in the near future? I know that there was news a week or so back but there's still nothing on the airport website. Nothing on the Backbone Aviation website either. Is this another false dawn?

I would say so, and even if it where to come to fruition it probably would not be sustainable. I have not problem with prop planes coming in and the likes of FLybe charging that bit more than the lcc but in reality, we have had so many failed regional carriers come that i can't ever see a sustainable carrier. Relistically we need the longer runway to accomadate jets and get a larger pool of carriers within our reach.

Without that we are just going to be banging our heads on this tread every 12 months after each regional carrier pulls out.

Dunmoreroader

dzilla wrote: »

I would say so, and even if it where to come to fruition it probably would not be sustainable. I have not problem with prop planes coming in and the likes of FLybe charging that bit more than the lcc but in reality, we have had so many failed regional carriers come that i can't ever see a sustainable carrier. Relistically we need the longer runway to accomadate jets and get a larger pool of carriers within our reach.

Without that we are just going to be banging our heads on this tread every 12 months after each regional carrier pulls out.

"If you build it, they will come" but Rosser won't stump up the money for the runway until there's a carrier signed up. Would Backbone flying Tiger Moths (or whatever their proposing) justify a runway extension?

dzilla

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

"If you build it, they will come" but Rosser won't stump up the money for the runway until there's a carrier signed up. Would Backbone flying Tiger Moths (or whatever their proposing) justify a runway extension?

No not you will "build it they will come" more like build it and Waterford airport has a better hand when attracting potential airlines who have jets and don't operate turbo probs giving you a better catchment of potential airlines.

Would a carrier coming in justify a runway extension ? Don't know but it would be enough for the government to commit to funding for airport as was their commitment last year.

JCX BXC

Can I ask, build it, and who do you see coming?

CelticRambler

There's a perfectly good airport in Poitiers, quite capable of handling Ryanair's 737s, and guess what? It's being threatened with closure, because it's too expensive to run, the newly-reorganised local government doesn't see the point of subsidising it any more, seeing as there's a TGV service to Paris and too much competition from Tours, one hour up the road, and La Rochelle, one hour down the road.

There's no point building an "it" that's the same as every other "it" in the area, and then offering a service that's no different to any of the others (except that it'll inevitably be less frequent and more expensive).

dzilla

JCX BXC wrote: »

Can I ask, build it, and who do you see coming?

I never said build it and they will come. You phrase this as if I alluded to a runway being built and a selection of airlines beating down the airports door to place aircraft here. I said get it build and we have options to have a larger catchment of potential airlines. As at the moment, we are going around in circles with regional carrier after regional carrier offering a non sustainable service.

savic04

Problem is now Waterford is seen as a no go airport

Build the runway for jets and who will actually want to come here?

Ryanair ... Not a hope.
Aer Lingus.. already using Prop plans for UK routes via Stobart


bottom line is they build a new motorway to enable us to get to Dub in 90mins / Cork in 90 mins also.. anyone from KK/Carlow its only 60mins..

The Gov doesnt want to prop up an airport knowing its not sustainable.

They will make noises such as ''il give you the money once you get a carrier'' probably knowing no carrier will come in and want a larger runway

dzilla

savic04 wrote: »

Problem is now Waterford is seen as a no go airport

Build the runway for jets and who will actually want to come here?

Ryanair ... Not a hope.
Aer Lingus.. already using Prop plans for UK routes via Stobart


bottom line is they build a new motorway to enable us to get to Dub in 90mins / Cork in 90 mins also.. anyone from KK/Carlow its only 60mins..

The Gov doesnt want to prop up an airport knowing its not sustainable.

They will make noises such as ''il give you the money once you get a carrier'' probably knowing no carrier will come in and want a larger runway

Yup thats correct, its at that point you need a strong management team at the airport to do all the scouting for the airlines. The motorway to Dublin opens up the corridor to an international airport, the road to cork is a bit undesirable for folks. 90 minutes to each from the city area is a bit generous even in non peak time.

Masala

dzilla wrote: »

Yup thats correct, its at that point you need a strong management team at the airport to do all the scouting for the airlines. The motorway to Dublin opens up the corridor to an international airport, the road to cork is a bit undesirable for folks. 90 minutes to each from the city area is a bit generous even in non peak time.

In fairness...you can't blame their management for what they have/have't got. No matter who is running the place ...its a difficult job to attract airlines and what Waterford have to sell is not that attractive. AND..we must not forget this... its not management who make routes successful- its the Region that makes the success. That includes what it has to offer, its people supporting the flights, it's business financing it etc. its all well and good getting in an airline... but someone has to fill the planes and bottom line is that Airlines fly to make profit and people have to realise that (based on the recent past) - there is not much chance of that happening with 2 x International Airports either side of you.

dzilla

Masala wrote: »

In fairness...you can't blame their management for what they have/have't got. No matter who is running the place ...its a difficult job to attract airlines and what Waterford have to sell is not that attractive. AND..we must not forget this... its not management who make routes successful- its the Region that makes the success. That includes what it has to offer, its people supporting the flights, it's business financing it etc. its all well and good getting in an airline... but someone has to fill the planes and bottom line is that Airlines fly to make profit and people have to realise that (based on the recent past) - there is not much chance of that happening with 2 x International Airports either side of you.

If you could clarify where I put the blame on management for any of the airport's shortcomings?

Masala

dzilla wrote: »

If you could clarify where I put the blame on management for any of the airport's shortcomings?

Apologies if that the impression....am trying to say that strong management is not going to solve their problems....its a bigger problem than that.

dzilla

Yea your dead right to be honest the loads have to be good on the flights and ppl need to vote with bums on seats. That don't mean it has to be low fares but price point is key really.

invara

savic04 wrote: »

Problem is now Waterford is seen as a no go airport

Build the runway for jets and who will actually want to come here?

Ryanair ... Not a hope.
Aer Lingus.. already using Prop plans for UK routes via Stobart

Four reasons why I think a major airline will come in:

Ryanair will have to come in against their will. Strategically they cannot allow another low cost airline into the Irish market (Irish routes are still Ryanair's biggest cash cow). They are in every airport that can take their planes on the island. They will play hardball by saying they will not come in, but will have to protect their low-cost monopoly.

Within 60 mins of the airport there is 500,000 people, which is a little less than Cork, same as Shannon and much greater than Kerry and Knock. There is 2.6 million people within 2 hours. They will move for lower fares and less hassle. Shannon/Cork/Dublin are all state owned and largely do not undercut each other. Mayo and Knock are hard to reach from major population centres. So Waterford would be the only commercial airport with a decent hinterland.

Dublin airport is full, hard to use and hard to get to. Our society is about to spend €320m on expanding Dublin airport. Suddenly €10m-27m for 1-5million passenger capacity sounds good value.

Waterford has attracted lots of airlines using uncompetitive/uneconomic planes. These commuter planes need a really buoyant economy to produce the difficult Dublin/higher fares/high load factor.

My view is build it. They are already here.

CeilingFly

Trotter wrote: »

I worked this out recently too. There was €120 in the difference when I checked.

But..
€50 for fuel to get to Dublin and back.
€30 for parking in the airport in Dublin.
€20 for lunch for us both in the airport or on the way.

and.. I was able to leave my house an hour before the flight from Waterford and still fit in a coffee in the airport. On the way home, I was putting the kettle on half an hour after we landed.

Here's the real figures

Max €30 on fuel unless you are driving a horribly inefficient car.

Parking - book online €8.50 / day - 50c higher than Waterford

Lunch - sandwich drink + snack €5 or less - cheaper than Waterford.



Basically, only inconvenience is the 2 hours travel time + additional fuel cost. - In return you get a huge choice of destinations.

Squidvicious

CeilingFly wrote: »

Here's the real figures

Max €30 on fuel unless you are driving a horribly inefficient car.

Parking - book online €8.50 / day - 50c higher than Waterford

Lunch - sandwich drink + snack €5 or less - cheaper than Waterford.



Basically, only inconvenience is the 2 hours travel time + additional fuel cost. - In return you get a huge choice of destinations.

But don't forget the sheer ease of Waterford airport compared to Dublin or even Cork. For example, once you're off the plane, you can be in your car within a few minutes. If Carlsberg did airports......

Obviously, it's different if you want to go to somewhere other than London but if you want to go to London, it's well worth the extra flight cost.