Waterford Airport.

JCX BXC

Comparing Waterford's catchment to the same level as Shannon and Cork is ridiculous from the get-go and basically writes off the rest of the debate.

If there was such a market at Waterford, we'd already see turboprop services like at Cork, Shannon, Knock and even Donegal!

Wanderer78

Pie in the sky folks, for now anyway. I just can't see it being viable right now, unfortunately I suspect the north warf is also a pie to

CelticRambler

Squidvicious wrote: »

Obviously, it's different if you want to go to somewhere other than London ...

This blinkered obsession with London is probably the factor that's more responsible than any other for stopping Waterford's development. Sure, once upon a time, Waterford was a fiercely royalist city and earned the respect of the King of England ... but that was several hundred years ago. These days, you'd be hard pressed to get anyone in England to recognise the name, let alone find it on a map.

You have to give people a good reason to choose to go there, and not just Waterford people. It's a basic rule of marketing - make sure you have a unique selling point.

The M9 goes in both directions, so give me one good reason why I (a Dubliner*) should fly from Waterford (and don't bother offering me Luton as a destination because I have no interest in going anywhere near Luton).

Squidvicious wrote: »

But don't forget the sheer ease of Waterford airport ...

*Non-resident. But the last time I wanted to go to Waterford airport, I flew to Dublin, got the coach from outside Terminal 1 direct to Waterford, then a taxi out to Killowen. You're right - it's "sheer" easy to get there.

looksee

CelticRambler wrote: »

This blinkered obsession with London is probably the factor that's more responsible than any other for stopping Waterford's development. Sure, once upon a time, Waterford was a fiercely royalist city and earned the respect of the King of England ... but that was several hundred years ago. These days, you'd be hard pressed to get anyone in England to recognise the name, let alone find it on a map.

You have to give people a good reason to choose to go there, and not just Waterford people. It's a basic rule of marketing - make sure you have a unique selling point.

The M9 goes in both directions, so give me one good reason why I (a Dubliner*) should fly from Waterford (and don't bother offering me Luton as a destination because I have no interest in going anywhere near Luton).

What a peculiar post, why would anyone try and convince a Dub to fly from anywhere other than dublin? And all that ranting about Waterford's supposed obsession with London - you know, just possibly, people might want to go to London because its the capital city? The whole post is nonsense.

CelticRambler

It may be nonsense to you, but the past ten/fifteen years have shown that there aren't enough people who want to fly to London to make the service viable.

Why would anyone try to convince a Dub to fly from anywhere other than Dublin. Well there you have it - if Waterford, as an airport, has nothing to offer other than a watered down version of everything that's available in Dublin, then it will never be anything other than an airfield with big hopes and little action.

And if those with any real interest in the success of (or connection to) Waterford Airport can't think of ways to make it an airport worth a quick trip down the M9, then it's a lost cause. It's not hard to come up with ideas for services and destinations that just wouldn't be possible in Dublin ...

JohnC.

Seems a bit weird. Like trying to convince a Londoner to use, I don't know, Cardiff or Bournemouth or somewhere instead of Heathrow. It doesn't make sense. Surely the point is to get people nearby to use it, not getting people in the capital city with its own airport to use a smaller one down the country?

Do many Dubliners go down to fly out of Kerry, or even Cork?

CelticRambler

Hardly a fair comparison - Cardiff is in a different country to London! :pac:

But it does make sense, for the same reason that people in Belfast travel south to a "different country" to start the airborne leg of their journeys: Dublin is only up the road from Waterford. There is no point going on (and on and on and on) about getting local people to show some loyalty/interest in Waterford airport if the key service is a flight to one airport in the greater London region, when the same person has a choice of several different airlines, flying to six different "London" airports at fares that can never be consistently matched by a small operator, all from a big, busy airport that's just a bus-ride away.

That's economic reality.

In every other walk of business-life, the "little guy" would come up with something that made him stand out, something that would encourage customers to walk past the global chain and spend time and money on his service instead. That willingness to be different is what's missing in Waterford.

JCX BXC

That's complete crap if I may say so, do Dubliners use SNN or ORK to fly to London? Somewhere they can fly to from DUB at much larger frequencies to more airports with more airlines?

Squidvicious

CelticRambler wrote: »

Hardly a fair comparison - Cardiff is in a different country to London! :pac:

But it does make sense, for the same reason that people in Belfast travel south to a "different country" to start the airborne leg of their journeys: Dublin is only up the road from Waterford. There is no point going on (and on and on and on) about getting local people to show some loyalty/interest in Waterford airport if the key service is a flight to one airport in the greater London region, when the same person has a choice of several different airlines, flying to six different "London" airports at fares that can never be consistently matched by a small operator, all from a big, busy airport that's just a bus-ride away.

That's economic reality.

In every other walk of business-life, the "little guy" would come up with something that made him stand out, something that would encourage customers to walk past the global chain and spend time and money on his service instead. That willingness to be different is what's missing in Waterford.

So can you suggest any destination that Waterford airport could offer that might persuade you to travel from Dublin to Waterford airport? One destination.

Deiseen

People say the numbers aren't there for flights but loads have always been pretty good even with flights that have extremely high prices.

Imagine how they would be if you could fly return for <€150

JCX BXC

Deiseen wrote: »

People say the numbers aren't there for flights but loads have always been pretty good even with flights that have extremely high prices.

Imagine how they would be if you could fly return for <€150

VLM loads were shocking.

Deiseen

JCX BXC wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

People say the numbers aren't there for flights but loads have always been pretty good even with flights that have extremely high prices.

Imagine how they would be if you could fly return for <€150

VLM loads were shocking.

Have you got links the figures?

Also, Keep in mind a one way flight with VLM was around the €100 mark

JCX BXC

Deiseen wrote: »

Have you got links the figures?

Also, Keep in mind a one way flight with VLM was around the €100 mark

Just look back over this thread, it was well reported (either on this one or the one on aviation and aircraft).

You could also look up the CAO figures for when it operated and compare it to how many return flights operated on the 50 seater aircraft (hence 100 seats return)

MentalMario

I presume the announcement in the News & Star was bull**** a few weeks back?

Still nothing about flights in Dec.

JCX BXC

MentalMario wrote: »

I presume the announcement in the News & Star was bull**** a few weeks back?

Still nothing about flights in Dec.

I wouldn't expect anything to happen in Waterford ever again sadly.

Wanderer78

JCX BXC wrote: »

I wouldn't expect anything to happen in Waterford ever again sadly.

well never say never, but i suspect it could be a long time

jimbo1979

David cullinane on wlr radio this morning about extension of runway.im afraid this is just all hot air that's regurgatated once a year.the place is dying a slow death there

Dum_Dum

jimbo1979 wrote: »

David cullinane on wlr radio this morning about extension of runway.im afraid this is just all hot air that's regurgatated once a year.the place is dying a slow death there

Indeed, this is what happens. They'll be no announcements or outrage - it will just drift out of consciousness. A press release a while later, noting a few job loses, lost in the mid-sections of a few papers. And then to obscurity; a historical curiosity.

Harry Palmr

But where will all the private planes land?

The site should be kept intact at least - just in case.

Obviously there is a great irony in that the motorway we were demanding and that Martin Cullen swung back in the early 00s essentially removed the raison d'etre for developing the airport.

JCX BXC

I'd say the airport could stay open for private traffic at a reduced cost base. Don't know the ins and outs of what's currently offered and the minimum of what could be offered though.

Dum_Dum

Harry Palmr wrote: »

But where will all the private planes land?

The site should be kept intact at least - just in case.

Obviously there is a great irony in that the motorway we were demanding and that Martin Cullen swung back in the early 00s essentially removed the raison d'etre for developing the airport.

It's a five hour return trip to pick someone up from Dublin Airport.

All coaches follow an indirect route via Dublin City Centre; leading to timing and punctuality issues.

Dublin Airport is not connected to the national rail network.

Dublin Airport parking is expensive and requires a trip on the unreliable M50.

So, overall, an inferior experience.

JCX BXC

Dum_Dum wrote: »

All coaches follow an indirect route via Dublin City Centre; leading to timing and punctuality issues.

Completely incorrect.

Anyway, you can make all the points you want of why people won't fly from Dublin, but the simple fact that people do invalidates your points.

If Dublin was such an awful experience in which people will pay so much money to avoid, then why don't they? So many services have came and failed from Waterford, Cork, Shannon and Knock, whereas in Dublin most new routes are sustained.

People ultimately vote with their feet, and it's up to the airports to prove they're better, they're easier and that they have services.

Harry Palmr

JCX BXC wrote: »

I'd say the airport could stay open for private traffic at a reduced cost base. Don't know the ins and outs of what's currently offered and the minimum of what could be offered though.

Presumably the coast/mountain rescue helicopter will remain in place though I suppose in theory it could be moved to WUH if some work was done (maybe rob the nearest Waterpark pitch!) - or is there an issue with basing aircraft in a built up area?

JCX BXC

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Presumably the coast/mountain rescue helicopter will remain in place though I suppose in theory it could be moved to WUH if some work was done (maybe rob the nearest Waterpark pitch!) - or is there an issue with basing aircraft in a built up area?

It still operates from Sligo! Helicopter is at minimum safe from being moved. Helicopter operations don't require much in the way of services and could technically operate from anywhere with fair weather and a flat landing pad! Not sure the actual requirements of CHC for the service though.

tbarry31

I have heard they haven't been given any funding because they don't have a Service going in there. At the moment the CEO is meant to be on huge wages while staff are on reduced hours and that is a very small amount of staff. My concern at this time is that they will be no S&R out there in the future. Not looking for arguments about staff or CEO but I have concerns about the S&R not being there

JCX BXC

If S&R survived at Sligo I see no reason why it won't remain at Waterford.

914

Just spotted on the News and Star Facebook page that the Airport CEO has stepped down.

Harry Palmr

Hardly a surprise given the unholy mess made of Aer Southeast (unless it's for some other reason of course!)

Deiseen

Difficult to know how hard he was working behind the scenes but he wasn't having much successful.

Hopefully someone else can do better.

Jamie2k9

http://www.wlrfm.com/2018/02/23/aer-southeast-issues-positive-update/
Update:

Aer Southeast will begin flights this year!

Aer Southeast is now a part of a company which has its own Airline Operating License, AOC.
It's been a long road, but a lot of work has been done behind the scenes in order to secure the operation.
Due to circumstances out of our control, which included a long period of time when Waterford airport was in deep discussions with another operator, meant that we were not in a position to progress on this matter.
However, those things have been resolved, and Aer Southeast has now picked up were it left off.
More info follows in the coming days.

The ASE team.