Waterford Airport.

JCX BXC

Muttley79 wrote: »

Maybe just maybe Ryanair might fly out of Waterford once again considering they are constantly fighting with DAA in dublin,they could call it dublin south airport haha,even though recently robin Kiely communications chief for Ryanair says the runway is to short and the motorway to dublin is to good,but hey money talks and bull**** walks,surely with a population of 500k in the south east region they would be an appetite for Waterford airport to work

Whatever about the rest of your post, Ryanair certainly won't be flying from Waterford in order to reduce ops at Dublin.

Deiseen

JCX BXC wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

You seem to know more than most. Any reason for the long runway? Assuming costing is an issue aswell, surely the bare minimum would do?

Perhaps it's a slight bit longer than is necessary for the airport, but the length would be beneficial, assuming it can actually be funded.

The conspiry theorist within me suggests that it's possible the extension is so large that is could never be funded, and hence would not occur. Unlikely but something that did occur to me.

Beneficial how exactly? Just trying to see the need for the length..

Fox Uniform

JCX BXC wrote: »

Whatever about the rest of your post, Ryanair certainly won't be flying from Waterford in order to reduce ops at Dublin.

Never say never..... 😉

Masala

Muttley79 wrote: »

Maybe just maybe Ryanair might fly out of Waterford once again considering they are constantly fighting with DAA in dublin,they could call it dublin south airport haha,even though recently robin Kiely communications chief for Ryanair says the runway is to short and the motorway to dublin is to good,but hey money talks and bull**** walks,surely with a population of 500k in the south east region they would be an appetite for Waterford airport to work

Be careful what you wish for.... funding the runway is certainly a major cost but the operating costs of handling a Ryanair (CAT7) operation is nothing to be sniffed at. Staff costs to rocket..... upgrades on IT requirements to rocket....ramp equipment to rocket etc etc.

And don't expect Ryanair to be paying DAA charges either.

curmudgeonly

Costs tend to stay low if you are carrying freight or servicing planes though....

JCX BXC

Deiseen wrote: »

Beneficial how exactly? Just trying to see the need for the length..

No weight restrictions, making flights more viable. If a 737 can operate to Waterford on a smaller runway, but only carry 75% of its potential MTOW, that reduced the viability of a service.

However, I think it needs to be well proven that Waterford needs this runway. What's the point in that length if the only service that can arise is a 5x weekly to Stansted (if it would even work).

Masala

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Costs tend to stay low if you are carrying freight or servicing planes though....

and how much of this is Waterford doing (or has done) at the moment or past 2-3 years??

In a Ryanair context...they are a green-field site.

Deiseen

Masala wrote: »

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Costs tend to stay low if you are carrying freight or servicing planes though....

and how much of this is Waterford doing (or has done) at the moment or past 2-3 years??

In a Ryanair context...they are a green-field site.

You dont invest/develop/build/expand based on what you have done, if that was the case then nothing would develop.

You base it on potential.

Obviously the councils and this private investor see potential there. Hopefully the government do aswell.

curmudgeonly

Masala wrote: »

and how much of this is Waterford doing (or has done) at the moment or past 2-3 years??

In a Ryanair context...they are a green-field site.

None is the answer, but I have pointed you in the direction where this is going, it has nothing to do with Ryanair.

JCX BXC

Not even Cork has freight at the moment. But sure Waterford could just get it easy as can be. Not like it's actually closer to Dublin airport than any other airport in the republic of Ireland!

Deise Vu

curmudgeonly wrote: »

None is the answer, but I have pointed you in the direction where this is going, it has nothing to do with Ryanair.

:eek::eek::eek: Jaysus! Are we getting the Airbus factory from Wales after Brexit!!! Our replacement 'Glass' is here at last!
Or Amazon to replace their enormous warehouse in Scotland after Brexit?

Or is it just going to be used by joy riders... :o

curmudgeonly

Deise Vu wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek: Jaysus! Are we getting the Airbus factory from Wales after Brexit!!! Our replacement 'Glass' is here at last!
Or Amazon to replace their enormous warehouse in Scotland after Brexit?

Or is it just going to be used by joy riders... :o

My cynical friend, a question was asked I answered it from the little bit of insight I have into it, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. But if I look at the facts as I see them, Dublin airport inching up to max capacity, slots at a premium, pressure for 24 access being resisted, cost of accommodation etc sky high in Dublin, two motorways to Dublin from Waterford to both North and South of Dublin by 2019. If I was in that industry I would be looking for feasible alternatives with the added bonus of getting capital grants from the Government. If you are going to try to be funny, be funny.

Teebor15

The runway is that lenght to allow full or almost full utilisation of B737-800 aircraft, the aircraft of choice of most low cost carriers, along with the Airbus A320 family of aircraft which have a lesser requirement.

In the planning application for the Rwy 03 end (Tramore Bay end) approved a few years ago shows whats called a "displaced threshold" meaning that due to the topography of the area approx the first 150 meters will not be available to landing aircraft. I haven't seen the drawings for the new application but my guess is the Northern end will have something similiar. So in order to meet the landing weight requirements of the aircraft mentioned above both ends need to be increased. If this was not required then about 2000-2100 total lenght would suffice. This is very common on runways all over the world. The advantage of this is it allows for greater lenght for departure thus increasing range and viability.

Although I haven't heard of funding being confirmed, they must be very confident if they have gone to the point of submitting a planning application, which would not be cheap to do. Leo Vradkar said recently in the Dail that the government would be supporting Waterford Airports efforts to restore passenger services so maybe there is a lot going on in the background that will be made known once the summer break is over.

Be great if it went ahead. The planning application provides for a wider taxiway and second cark park but no mention of alterations to the terminal which would be under pressure dealing with even a single B738 turnaround. Maybe that will come later.

Regarding the viability, you would imagine or at least hope they have someone lined up in principal to come in or it would be an embarrassing white elephant. The only one I can see is Ryanair starting with a daily Luton/Stansted and 2 flights a week each to a couple of sun destinations. Ryanair is a bit different than most airlines in that rather than research the viability of a route to death they just start flights and if it works great if not they pull it an go elsewhere. I could see a second London flight being added the following summer and maybe with the raised profile of the airport Flybe or others might might be tempted back to cover Manchester and Birmingham.

I'd be much more optimistic than the doom mongers here who say it'll never work. Knock airport had only a daily Ryanair flight to London plus a few flights to Manchester each week for about 15 years before it suddenly took off to the level it is at now. Waterford will be a slow burner too. I wouldn't expect flights to European cities overnight but give it time to establish a few core UK and sunshine routes and then hopefully it will start full filling its potential in the years ahead.

The conspiry theorist within me suggests that it's possible the extension is so large that is could never be funded, and hence would not occur. Unlikely but something that did occur to me.

Explain this one to me?

Deise Vu

curmudgeonly wrote: »

My cynical friend, a question was asked I answered it from the little bit of insight I have into it, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. But if I look at the facts as I see them, Dublin airport inching up to max capacity, slots at a premium, pressure for 24 access being resisted, cost of accommodation etc sky high in Dublin, two motorways to Dublin from Waterford to both North and South of Dublin by 2019. If I was in that industry I would be looking for feasible alternatives with the added bonus of getting capital grants from the Government. If you are going to try to be funny, be funny.

No need to be so touchy. I actually think the Airport would make a great replacement for the Amazon warehouse near Inverness. After Brexit, particularly a hard one, it would be utterly bananas to be sending goods to the UK for onward distribution as it would attract customs going into the UK and then coming out into the EU. The Brits will want a Certificate of Origin system where goods in and out don't count but there will be no mood in the EU to accommodate them if they are playing hardball on everything else.

Teebor15

Dublin Aerospace said recently that they were considering relocating part of their business to a regional airport due to the contraints at Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-aerospace-considering-base-in-regional-airport-36487781.html

Waterford would be ideal for this. Closest airport to Dublin, good motorway connections for workers commuting, large business park attached to the airport with vacant sites with runway access, affordable part of the country to live, soon to be Technological University in the city. The additional runway lenght would accomadate even some widebodies with no passengers and limited fuel who were dropping in for maintenance.

We just don't know whats going on in the background, stranger things have happenend. One thing I do know is negative cynical people will be negative cynical people no matter what you say.

curmudgeonly

Deise Vu wrote: »

No need to be so touchy.

Did you not get the hint with my name?:D

BBM77

curmudgeonly wrote: »

My cynical friend, a question was asked I answered it from the little bit of insight I have into it, I don't necessarily agree or disagree with it. But if I look at the facts as I see them, Dublin airport inching up to max capacity, slots at a premium, pressure for 24 access being resisted, cost of accommodation etc sky high in Dublin, two motorways to Dublin from Waterford to both North and South of Dublin by 2019. If I was in that industry I would be looking for feasible alternatives with the added bonus of getting capital grants from the Government. If you are going to be try to be funny, be funny.

Two motorways to Dublin. Where is the second one?

Deise Vu

BBM77 wrote: »

Two motorways to Dublin. Where is the scond one?

I presume that refers to the Enniscorthy bypass currently under construction and then plans to extend that road to New Ross where it will link with the new Barrow crossing making two high speed links to Dublin from the South East.

curmudgeonly

BBM77 wrote: »

Two motorways to Dublin. Where is the scond one?

Glenmore to Dublin via Enniscorthy being built now.M11

Dum_Dum

Teebor15 wrote: »

Dublin Aerospace said recently that they were considering relocating part of their business to a regional airport due to the contraints at Dublin.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dublin-aerospace-considering-base-in-regional-airport-36487781.html

Waterford would be ideal for this. Closest airport to Dublin, good motorway connections for workers commuting, large business park attached to the airport with vacant sites with runway access, affordable part of the country to live, soon to be Technological University in the city. The additional runway lenght would accomadate even some widebodies with no passengers and limited fuel who were dropping in for maintenance.

We just don't know whats going on in the background, stranger things have happenend. One thing I do know is negative cynical people will be negative cynical people no matter what you say.

Forgot all about this. Surely Waterford would be top of the list post-runway extension. I'm not sure exactly what their requirements would be, but they've access to the sea, good road access and wouldn't flight restrictions be less onerous than in a built up area?


It would be a good foundation for passenger operations - keeping the place alive should any future airline love us and leave us.

Squidvicious

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Forgot all about this. Surely Waterford would be top of the list post-runway extension. I'm not sure exactly what their requirements would be, but they've access to the sea, good road access and wouldn't flight restrictions be less onerous than in a built up area?


It would be a good foundation for passenger operations - keeping the place alive should any future airline love us and leave us.

I note mention in the article that they could also use pretty much any airport in the country and Cork, Donegal and Knock airports are all mentioned as possible sites for outsourcing. The DAA runs/owns both Dublin and Cork airports. Would this not mean that Cork would be in poll position for any such outsourcing?

Teebor15

Squidvicious wrote: »

I note mention in the article that they could also use pretty much any airport in the country and Cork, Donegal and Knock airports are all mentioned as possible sites for outsourcing. The DAA runs/owns both Dublin and Cork airports. Would this not mean that Cork would be in poll position for any such outsourcing?

Why? The DAA and Dublin Aerospace are two completely seperate organisations. I'm not sure who owns the Hangar at Dublin where Dublin Aerospace is based, is it themselves or do they lease it off the DAA? but either way they feel their days there may be numbered.

Knock has the runway but doesn't really tick many other boxes. Donegals runway is same as Waterford is now and is far too isolated. Derry may be an option but not sure how the Brexit thing affects that. Cork is an option too but is far from Dublin for commuting workers if you have a split business. Shannon is ideal but they said they would not go there. Might be nothing in it at all but you never know.

curmudgeonly

Teebor15 wrote: »

Why? The DAA and Dublin Aerospace are two completely seperate organisations. I'm not sure who owns the Hangar at Dublin where Dublin Aerospace is based, is it themselves or do they lease it off the DAA? but either way they feel their days there may be numbered.

Knock has the runway but doesn't really tick many other boxes. Donegals runway is same as Waterford is now and is far too isolated. Derry may be an option but not sure how the Brexit thing affects that. Cork is an option too but is far from Dublin for commuting workers if you have a split business. Shannon is ideal but they said they would not go there. Might be nothing in it at all but you never know.

Have a look at the people who own Dublin Aerospace and where they are from, all might be clearer.

Teebor15

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Have a look at the people who own Dublin Aerospace and where they are from, all might be clearer.

Conor McCarthy and Airbus are the primary Stakeholders...spell it out to me.

curmudgeonly

Teebor15 wrote: »

Conor McCarthy and Airbus are the primary Stakeholders...spell it out to me.

Waterford born,I maybe reading too much into it but have seen an inordinate amount of him locally lately.

Squidvicious

Teebor15 wrote: »

Why? The DAA and Dublin Aerospace are two completely seperate organisations. I'm not sure who owns the Hangar at Dublin where Dublin Aerospace is based, is it themselves or do they lease it off the DAA? but either way they feel their days there may be numbered.

Knock has the runway but doesn't really tick many other boxes. Donegals runway is same as Waterford is now and is far too isolated. Derry may be an option but not sure how the Brexit thing affects that. Cork is an option too but is far from Dublin for commuting workers if you have a split business. Shannon is ideal but they said they would not go there. Might be nothing in it at all but you never know.

Just wondered if it might influence them but I really don't know myself and I was really only throwing it out as a question. Being local, I would certainly hope that Waterford would get the nod.

Jamie2k9

The whole Aerospace thing would prehaps explain why the runway is that bit longer than needed, there clients handle bigger aircraft from further afield as well.

Interesting times ahead.

Fox Uniform

Masala wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for.... funding the runway is certainly a major cost but the operating costs of handling a Ryanair (CAT7) operation is nothing to be sniffed at. Staff costs to rocket..... upgrades on IT requirements to rocket....ramp equipment to rocket etc etc.

And don't expect Ryanair to be paying DAA charges either.

As per the AIP - Waterford is already published upto and capable of Cat 7

Teebor15

Masala wrote: »

Is this including the RESA runoff area??? That can’t be included in runway length.

Yes it can.

Harry Palmr

A blast from the distant past.

http://www.waterfordairport.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145&Itemid=159

The injection of capital grants totalling €22.3 million announced by the Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen TD, will transform Waterford Airport and give a major boost to the economy of the city and the entire Southeast region, according to Waterford Airport Chairman, Nicky Fewer.

The Department of Transport grants, which will be supplemented by funding from the airport company, will allow the airport to complete its €27.5 million development plan, including an extension of the runway to 1,850 metres, facilitating the operation of jet aircraft from Waterford.

According to Graham Doyle, Chief Executive of Waterford Airport, “The extended runway, which we hope to have in place by summer 2009, will allow the airport to handle large jet aircraft. This will give us the opportunity to attract airlines offering European city breaks and holiday charters, as well as private jet business and perhaps cargo services in the future.”