Waterford Airport.

Deiseen

Harry Palmr wrote: »

A blast from the distant past.

http://www.waterfordairport.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=145&Itemid=159

The injection of capital grants totalling €22.3 million announced by the Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen TD, will transform Waterford Airport and give a major boost to the economy of the city and the entire Southeast region, according to Waterford Airport Chairman, Nicky Fewer.

The Department of Transport grants, which will be supplemented by funding from the airport company, will allow the airport to complete its €27.5 million development plan, including an extension of the runway to 1,850 metres, facilitating the operation of jet aircraft from Waterford.

According to Graham Doyle, Chief Executive of Waterford Airport, “The extended runway, which we hope to have in place by summer 2009, will allow the airport to handle large jet aircraft. This will give us the opportunity to attract airlines offering European city breaks and holiday charters, as well as private jet business and perhaps cargo services in the future.”

I always said that Martin Cullen delivered for Waterford! Oh wait..m

Harry Palmr

Can anyone remember why that particular development didn't happen? In 2007 we were still quaffing Champagne for breakfast

Masala

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Can anyone remember why that particular development didn't happen? In 2007 we were still quaffing Champagne for breakfast

Ya.... the arse fell out of the country and instead of giving out €22m .. we needed to borrow €63billion.

Wanderer78

Masala wrote:

Ya.... the arse fell out of the country and instead of giving out €22m .. we needed to borrow €63billion.

Borrowed?

Deiseen

Any update? Shane Ross got the report last week..

Deise Vu

Deiseen wrote: »

Any update? Shane Ross got the report last week..

Those sophisticated Dub TDs hate this parish pump culchie thing about having stuff like cardiac services and other important infrastructure when everyone should really be working in Dublin. He will have to have a serious look at the cost / benefit analysis to ensure there is enough funds to open Stepaside Garda station.

JCX BXC

Deiseen wrote: »

Any update? Shane Ross got the report last week..

It's a week, things like this don't move fast. It'll likely be months before the next update.

marno21

Deiseen wrote: »

Any update? Shane Ross got the report last week..

"Shane Ross got the update last week" is a good sign of not hearing anything for a while

iseegirls

marno21 wrote: »

"Shane Ross got the update last week" is a good sign of not hearing anything for a while

You would think that with both Shane Ross and John Halligan in the same party that John could and should have a massive influence over this.

Deiseen

JCX BXC wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Any update? Shane Ross got the report last week..

It's a week, things like this don't move fast. It'll likely be months before the next update.

Not expecting any movement. But the report could at least be published.

hardybuck

Who owns Waterford Airport? Is it privately owned?

If so, why can't they get funding like other businesses to invest in their facilities?

The National Development Plan is going to account for a lot of Government capital expenditure from next year onwards, and the North Quays is one of the projects to benefit.

Therefore I think it's worth asking the question, is this a facility the Government should be funding instead of other projects like social housing, schools or hospitals, or should the business take a loan, paid for by whatever profits it makes from commercial activities?

Harry Palmr

Here's your answer.

Waterford Regional Airport plc t/a

Waterford Airport is incorporated in

Ireland with Limited Liability.

Reg. No. 84770

VAT Number: 4570567W

https://search.cro.ie/company/CompanyDetails.aspx?id=84770&type=C

But who'd lend it 20m to do a decent job? There is not enough money in small airports
to turn a profit when it comes to capital spending.

Deise Vu

hardybuck wrote: »

Who owns Waterford Airport? Is it privately owned?

If so, why can't they get funding like other businesses to invest in their facilities?

The National Development Plan is going to account for a lot of Government capital expenditure from next year onwards, and the North Quays is one of the projects to benefit.

Therefore I think it's worth asking the question, is this a facility the Government should be funding instead of other projects like social housing, schools or hospitals, or should the business take a loan, paid for by whatever profits it makes from commercial activities?

The ownership is a valid point. There was never any hope of the Govt funding this airport when it was conceived back in the 80's so the initial capital was all fund-raised from local businesses. As a result there was about IR£1M raised initially and there was a massively diverse shareholding.

However, during the good old Tiger days one of the Directors tried to hoover up shares from disinterested investors who never had any expectation of getting a return and he now owns about 1/4 of the company. Even as a supporter of the airport that doesn't sit well with me and I would be in favour of any Govt investment being by way of share capital and diluting the current shareholders to negligible interests.

As regards your final point about Social Housing etc, I cannot abide that argument. You could argue that any arts grant, library grant etc is frippery when we have a so-called homeless crisis. It is not an excuse to stop developing and certainly not in the only region in the country currently going backwards economically. There is no point in continuing to centralise everything in Dublin, Cork and Galway and then wringing your hands about the lack of affordable accommodation in those centres.

hardybuck

Deise Vu wrote: »

The ownership is a valid point. There was never any hope of the Govt funding this airport when it was conceived back in the 80's so the initial capital was all fund-raised from local businesses. As a result there was about IR£1M raised initially and there was a massively diverse shareholding.

However, during the good old Tiger days one of the Directors tried to hoover up shares from disinterested investors who never had any expectation of getting a return and he now owns about 1/4 of the company. Even as a supporter of the airport that doesn't sit well with me and I would be in favour of any Govt investment being by way of share capital and diluting the current shareholders to negligible interests.

As regards your final point about Social Housing etc, I cannot abide that argument. You could argue that any arts grant, library grant etc is frippery when we have a so-called homeless crisis. It is not an excuse to stop developing and certainly not in the only region in the country currently going backwards economically. There is no point in continuing to centralise everything in Dublin, Cork and Galway and then wringing your hands about the lack of affordable accommodation in those centres.

Please don't let my examples derail the argument. I'm simply saying there is a finite pot of money available, so if it gets spent here then it doesn't get spent somewhere else. That's just a fact.

That's really interesting about the history and the early days of getting the airport moving.

I'm surprised they haven't gone in for European Investment Funding, who targeted handing out €315bn in low cost investment funding - maybe they already have.

Maybe they know themselves that the airport is not comercially viable and repayment of a loan is never realistic.

Deise Vu

hardybuck wrote: »

Please don't let my examples derail the argument. I'm simply saying there is a finite pot of money available, so if it gets spent here then it doesn't get spent somewhere else. That's just a fact.

That's really interesting about the history and the early days of getting the airport moving.

I'm surprised they haven't gone in for European Investment Funding, who targeted handing out €315bn in low cost investment funding - maybe they already have.

Maybe they know themselves that the airport is not comercially viable and repayment of a loan is never realistic.

Speculative investments are always problematic for a lender. In its current form, although the balance sheet is quite strong, there is no way the Airport could repay a €20M loan on the basis of build it and they will come. It first has to get the runway, then hope to attract a service provider and / or ancillary airport activities like people have suggested earlier.

Currently the South East is losing jobs in a booming economy. We have the lowest 3rd level education in the workforce becasue all our kids leave for 3rd level and rarely come back. If the Govt continues to strip services like cath labs and transfer them to other centres while they dilute proposed third level education services, these are inevitable outcomes. Investment in infrastructure is exactly that, an investment. In relative terms it is tiny when potentially it could have massive positive consequences in terms of tourism and industry.

I hate whataboutery but what about (:D) that Art House cinema in Galway? I think it cost about €9M and was handed over to a private company to run for a scrip rent. Even Galway Councillors are embarrassed about it. We are not asking for much down here really, just an occasional crumb of hope.

hardybuck

Deise Vu wrote: »

Speculative investments are always problematic for a lender. In its current form, although the balance sheet is quite strong, there is no way the Airport could repay a €20M loan on the basis of build it and they will come. It first has to get the runway, then hope to attract a service provider and / or ancillary airport activities like people have suggested earlier.

Currently the South East is losing jobs in a booming economy. We have the lowest 3rd level education in the workforce becasue all our kids leave for 3rd level and rarely come back. If the Govt continues to strip services like cath labs and transfer them to other centres while they dilute proposed third level education services, these are inevitable outcomes. Investment in infrastructure is exactly that, an investment. In relative terms it is tiny when potentially it could have massive positive consequences in terms of tourism and industry.

I hate whataboutery but what about (:D) that Art House cinema in Galway? I think it cost about €9M and was handed over to a private company to run for a scrip rent. Even Galway Councillors are embarrassed about it. We are not asking for much down here really, just an occasional crumb of hope.

It boils down to priorities, and I think it's fair to ponder if this is one or not.

Whataboutery could also be described as the potential benefit that a highly speculative investment, as you've described it, could deliver to the region.

In terms of direct comparison Limerick has Shannon Airport, which is Government owned. Despite this, the recent census highlighted that Limerick still had by far the largest number of employment blackspots in the country, followed by Waterford.

Deise Vu

hardybuck wrote: »

It boils down to priorities, and I think it's fair to ponder if this is one or not.

Whataboutery could also be described as the potential benefit that a highly speculative investment, as you've described it, could deliver to the region.

In terms of direct comparison Limerick has Shannon Airport, which is Government owned. Despite this, the recent census highlighted that Limerick still had by far the largest number of employment blackspots in the country, followed by Waterford.

I think it would be fairly reasonable to say that Limerick would be in a far, far worse position if it didn't have the airport and the Shannon Free Zone (or whatever it's called these days).

Dunmoreroader

Deise Vu wrote: »

I think it would be fairly reasonable to say that Limerick would be in a far, far worse position if it didn't have the airport and the Shannon Free Zone (or whatever it's called these days).

Not to mention UL. Oh I just did.

hardybuck

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Not to mention UL. Oh I just did.

I didn't want to wind anyone up by mentioning the fact that despite a busy port, an international airport with a US preclearance facility, a university and an institute of technology, Limerick still has by far the most unemployment blackspots in Ireland.

azimuth17

Embedded unemployment in certain parts of Limerick city, just like in Waterford and any largish urban area (you know the places in Waterford or could make a guess at them) but headline unemployment is lower than Waterford. These black spot areas have low educational levels and other socio economic difficulties that mean even if general unemployment levels reduce that these areas can still exhibit higher levels of unemployment and deprivation.

Deiseen

Dont be fooled lads.

Limerick is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Waterford.

Its like comparing New York City to Kabul.

If everyone realised just how forgotten Waterford is, in comparison to other cities in Ireland, then they would stop paying their taxes.

Waterford is Kabul btw.

azimuth17

Spot on Deiseen. Was in Limerick three times in May/June. Huge investment. Everyone posting on the Waterford city page should be put on a bus and brought to see what is happening there. They may have problems but solutions are visible everywhere there.

Max Powers

azimuth17 wrote: »

Spot on Deiseen. Was in Limerick three times in May/June. Huge investment. Everyone posting on the Waterford city page should be put on a bus and brought to see what is happening there. They may have problems but solutions are visible everywhere there.

No one is being fooled, everyone knows that we arent getting a fair crack and that other places are booming, likes of limerick due in large part to Michael Noonan, the only fools are people who voted out the one lad who could/was helping us here....this talk of stuff like not paying your taxes or stickin it to the govt by voting out the one govt TD is ridiculous and shooting ourselves in the foot.

Deiseen

Max Powers wrote: »

azimuth17 wrote: »

Spot on Deiseen. Was in Limerick three times in May/June. Huge investment. Everyone posting on the Waterford city page should be put on a bus and brought to see what is happening there. They may have problems but solutions are visible everywhere there.

No one is being fooled, everyone knows that we arent getting a fair crack and that other places are booming, likes of limerick due in large part to Michael Noonan, the only fools are people who voted out the one lad who could/was helping us here....this talk of stuff like not paying your taxes or stickin it to the govt by voting out the one govt TD is ridiculous and shooting ourselves in the foot.

Bang on there. I despise Fine Gael but Paudie was doing the business for us. Worst thing we ever did was vote in useless Deasy again, man should be ashamed of himself.

dzilla

Deiseen wrote: »

Bang on there. I despise Fine Gael but Paudie was doing the business for us. Worst thing we ever did was vote in useless Deasy again, man should be ashamed of himself.

I just don't understand our willingness to re-elect these numpties term on term.

Wanderer78

dzilla wrote: »

I just don't understand our willingness to re-elect these numpties term on term.

would voting others truly change much, are our political institutions fit for purpose?

notharrypotter

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are our political institutions fit for purpose?

Going slightly off topic but of course they are.
based on many of the posts here we want everything local and our political parties and structures are geared for that.
Anyone for a bit of planning😀

Deise Vu

hardybuck wrote: »

I didn't want to wind anyone up by mentioning the fact that despite a busy port, an international airport with a US preclearance facility, a university and an institute of technology, Limerick still has by far the most unemployment blackspots in Ireland.

Are you suggesting having all this amazing infrastructure is the reason for the social problems in places like of Moyross or Rathkeale? Or is it that there should only be investment in Limerick until Limerick's problems are sorted out?

hardybuck

Deise Vu wrote: »

Are you suggesting having all this amazing infrastructure is the reason for the social problems in places like of Moyross or Rathkeale? Or is it that there should only be investment in Limerick until Limerick's problems are sorted out?

Neither. My point was that many Waterford people believe that investment in the airport and in WIT would solve all the city's problems. It may not.

Getting this back on track, it'll be interesting to see the outcome from the report.

I'm not sure if I'd be happy to see tax payers money being spent to support a privately owned company in pursuing a highly speculative investment that a bank wouldn't be prepared to support. Maybe there are other things we need more - it's hard to speculate without the information.

Before we start feeling too sorry for Waterford, it's worth pointing out that it got €1m in 2016 to help pay for bills, on top of the €870k share of a pot that was given to regional airports - it was the largest receipent of that funding, despite being the only one not to run passenger services.

It's also worth noting that Galway was long a far busier airport than Waterford, and has also been closed for a number of years.

If anyone has the info, I'd love to get a tally of what it costs the taxpayer to keep an airport like Waterford open. Has it ever been a viable business?

notharrypotter

hardybuck wrote: »

Has it ever been a viable business?

By most normal criteria used it never was of will be "viable" as a business.

The presence of the SAR helicopter complicates matters.
Equally the current infrastructure is more than adequate for this service as testified by the current operations in Sligo.