Waterford Airport.

Dum_Dum

Shn99 wrote: »

Looking at Waterford Airport on the map, it looks like a good bit of land would have to be purchased to fit such a hangar. I couldn’t see Dub Aerospace doing this and i doubt the govt would fund it.

Next time I'm in your neck of the woods, I'll pop by and start telling you what you can and can't have.

Shn99

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Next time I'm in your neck of the woods, I'll pop by and start telling you what you can and can't have.

Only being realistic, do you think DA would locate to an airport with a short runway and limited space or an airport with a suitable runway and lots of space?

Teebor15

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Next time I'm in your neck of the woods, I'll pop by and start telling you what you can and can't have.

Come on now...don't you know that any company wishing to set up an aircraft maintenance base must locate to Shannon, it's written in the constitution and can only be changed with a referendum.

Teebor15

Shn99 wrote: »

Only being realistic, do you think DA would locate to an airport with a short runway and limited space or an airport with a suitable runway and lots of space?

What part of "unlikely to be Shannon" in the article are you having trouble with?

Shn99

Teebor15 wrote: »

What part of "unlikely to be Shannon" in the article are you having trouble with?

Unlikely to and definitely not are 2 different things.

Shn99

Anyway, it could be Cork or Knock too, who knows? I’m sure they’d be above Waterford on the list

Teebor15

Shn99 wrote: »

Anyway, it could be Cork or Knock too, who knows? I’m sure they’d be above Waterford on the list

You're sure are you? Well you'd better give Conor McCarthy a ring so and tell him where to relocate to...I'd say he's going off his head wondering what to do!

blackwhite

marno21 wrote: »

Yes, but there are already 2 maintenance bases in Dublin and Shannon, why would a third need to be located in Waterford when there is plenty of expansion room at Shannon? And Shannon has a much longer runway capable of handling bigger aircraft.



Can you explain this please - I really don't know what you are trying to say.

Dublin will eventually need the space for flight ops. The footprint of Dublin is limited on the side of the airfield where the terminals currently are.

But anyway - a third could quite easily be established at WAT, ORK or even NOC without any impact on SNN by targeting a different segment of the market. Once it would be private enterprise without demanding a state subsidy then I’d be all in favour.

That said - I’m not sure you can justify expecting the State to find a runway expansion purely to support a maintenance base. Any state funding would have to be based on a transport case, which I’m not convinced can currently be made.

The ideal would be a private concern willing to develop WAT without state funding (which IMO could only ever be likely as a maintenance base). Unfortunately that doesn’t look like it’s currently on the cards, but IMO it’s probably more likely than gaining any substantial state investment in the next few years

curmudgeonly

blackwhite wrote: »

Dublin will eventually need the space for flight ops. The footprint of Dublin is limited on the side of the airfield where the terminals currently are.

But anyway - a third could quite easily be established at WAT, ORK or even NOC without any impact on SNN by targeting a different segment of the market. Once it would be private enterprise without demanding a state subsidy then I’d be all in favour.

That said - I’m not sure you can justify expecting the State to find a runway expansion purely to support a maintenance base. Any state funding would have to be based on a transport case, which I’m not convinced can currently be made.

The ideal would be a private concern willing to develop WAT without state funding (which IMO could only ever be likely as a maintenance base). Unfortunately that doesn’t look like it’s currently on the cards, but IMO it’s probably more likely than gaining any substantial state investment in the next few years

All very logical but this is politics not logic, watch this space.

Gardner

From what I’m told the report is favourable towards the airport and the politicians have done their lobbying but the hiccup is sitting with the board of management. supposedly after getting an ultimatum of 2/3 weeks to sort it or lose it.

Deiseen

Gardner wrote: »

From what I’m told the report is favourable towards the airport and the politicians have done their lobbying but the hiccup is sitting with the board of management. supposedly after getting an ultimatum of 2/3 weeks to sort it or lose it.

what hiccup?

Fox Uniform

Gardner wrote: »

From what I’m told the report is favourable towards the airport and the politicians have done their lobbying but the hiccup is sitting with the board of management. supposedly after getting an ultimatum of 2/3 weeks to sort it or lose it.

... Don't know where you are getting your information... But the ultimatum information is untrue.

Politicians have done their lobbying.... Don't make me laugh....

Muttley79

Gardner wrote: »

From what I’m told the report is favourable towards the airport and the politicians have done their lobbying but the hiccup is sitting with the board of management. supposedly after getting an ultimatum of 2/3 weeks to sort it or lose it.

No need to be spreading unnecessary gossip.have you got facts to back this up?

Gardner

primary source obviously not, as i said just what i heard and i would deem this person reliable.

FAO of Fox Uniform, what have you heard if the ultimatum is untrue? what are your sources telling you?

curmudgeonly

One way or another we will have the answer before Paddy's day.

b757

curmudgeonly wrote: »

One way or another we will have the answer before Paddy's day.

Did they forget?

ExoPolitic

b757 wrote: »

Did they forget?

Swept under the carpet for another year most likely...

Jamie2k9

12m required to be viable allegedly. Assume for runway.

Deiseen

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

12m required to be viable allegedly. Assume for runway.

This figure has been going around for months.

Teebor15

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

12m required to be viable allegedly. Assume for runway.

7m already raised comprising of 5m private investment & 2m from Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford Councils.

5m required from the State.

notharrypotter

Teebor15 wrote: »

7m already raised comprising of 5m private investment & 2m from Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford Councils.

5m required from the State.

So via its agents of Waterford and Kilkenny county council's the "State" has already committed 2 million.
I have to admire the way people can "compartmentalize" the state funding gets allocated.

Masala

Teebor15 wrote: »

7m already raised comprising of 5m private investment & 2m from Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford Councils.

5m required from the State.

.... who is the private investor ??? Chinese?? Saudi??

hardybuck

Teebor15 wrote: »

5m required from the State.

Who do you think the Councils get their money from?

azimuth17

Discretionary funding (as with airport spend) from rate base. Central funding would tend to be allocated across spending heads (salaries etc) when the council gets it I would have thought.

Teebor15

notharrypotter wrote: »

So via its agents of Waterford and Kilkenny county council's the "State" has already committed 2 million.
I have to admire the way people can "compartmentalize" the state funding gets allocated.

Ah the usual auld begrudgers are never too far away on this thread..living in fear of the little upstart in the South East that just won't go away!

No. The state provides some funding to the councils, the rest comes from business rates, parking charges, waste charges, commercial water charges, planning fees.

If you were educated you'd be dangerous.

If only the South East was treated the same as the 3 regions (South, Midwest & Dublin) lucky enough to be provided with "State" airports. Of course none of these airports ever received a cent from the exchequer to grow and develop into viable entities to help drive growth in their region, it was all from their own resources!

Do you think Cork or Shannon airports would be allowed fold if not commercially viable. I admire they way people can "compartmentalize" state airports!

Teebor15

Masala wrote: »

.... who is the private investor ??? Chinese?? Saudi??

I don't know but I believe there is more than 1 investor.

hardybuck

Teebor15 wrote: »

Ah the usual auld begrudgers are never too far away on this thread..living in fear of the little upstart in the South East that just won't go away!

No. The state provides some funding to the councils, the rest comes from business rates, parking charges, waste charges, commercial water charges, planning fees.

If you were educated you'd be dangerous.

If only the South East was treated the same as the 3 regions (South, Midwest & Dublin) lucky enough to be provided with "State" airports. Of course none of these airports ever received a cent from the exchequer to grow and develop into viable entities to help drive growth in their region, it was all from their own resources!

Do you think Cork or Shannon airports would be allowed fold if not commercially viable. I admire they way people can "compartmentalize" state airports!

But isn't Waterford the largest beneficiary of the funding provided to regional airports?

What you're actually looking at here is a project which a private company has sought to build something and have public money pay for about 62% of the cost, in addition to the money to keep it open every year. Without getting into the merits of the proposal, it's important to make that clear so people are aware of that.

It's also worth nothing that Dublin Airport's new terminal is being funded by their own commercial revenues.

Cork airport was moaning to Government about regional airport funding that they want but don't get, and were told to get their house in order, and it was the responsibility of their management to improve their plummeting passenger numbers. Shannon is currently complaining that Dublin is too strong, and that they're also losing out to Knock and Kerry. Sounds to me like Ireland might have too many airports.

Also, about half of the Counci'ls funding comes from "State" grants.

Teebor15

hardybuck wrote: »

But isn't Waterford the largest beneficiary of the funding provided to regional airports?

No. It varies annually, sometimes they get the most, sometimes they get the least.

What you're actually looking at here is a project which a private company has sought to build something and have public money pay for about 62% of the cost, in addition to the money to keep it open every year. Without getting into the merits of the proposal, it's important to make that clear so people are aware of that.

That's a very short sighted view. Why not get into the merits of the proposal

It's also worth nothing that Dublin Airport's new terminal is being funded by their own commercial revenues.

I presume you mean their new runway? Yes it's being paid for by themselves but how did they get to that position? By being state owned and funded for decades.

Cork airport was moaning to Government about regional airport funding that they want but don't get, and were told to get their house in order, and it was the responsibility of their management to improve their plummeting passenger numbers. Shannon is currently complaining that Dublin is too strong, and that they're also losing out to Knock and Kerry. Sounds to me like Ireland might have too many airports.

Cork & Shannon complaining now they have to stand on their own to feet. Shouldn't they be closed if not viable?

Also, about half of the Councils funding comes from "State" grants.

And the other half does'nt.

hardybuck

Teebor15 wrote: »

No. It varies annually, sometimes they get the most, sometimes they get the least.



That's a very short sighted view. Why not get into the merits of the proposal



I presume you mean their new runway? Yes it's being paid for by themselves but how did they get to that position? By being state owned and funded for decades.



Cork & Shannon complaining now they have to stand on their own to feet. Shouldn't they be closed if not viable?



And the other half does'nt.

I have not expressed a view regarding the merits of the proposal, therefore it cannot be short sighted. I have actually just highlighted what the private operator are proposing, i.e. that they get a runway and pay for 32% of it.

Regarding Dublin Airport, yes the new runway, and subsequently the new terminal. It makes absolute sense for all sorts of reasons for the primary gateway into and out of Ireland to be in state ownership.

Cork is part of the DAA. They're actually moaning about the regional airports getting funding that they don't. Shannon were let leave the DAA, and they have the same gripes.

What you're suggesting is that airports which aren't viable should shut. Therefore you are also implying that airports which aren't viable shouldn't repoen. I'd probably agree with you there, as it seems crazy for Waterford Airport to continue to soak up public money despite the fact that you can't fly anywhere.

All moneys that the councils hold are public moneys.

Teebor15

hardybuck wrote: »

I have not expressed a view regarding the merits of the proposal, therefore it cannot be short sighted. I have actually just highlighted what the private operator are proposing, i.e. that they get a runway and pay for 32% of it.

Regarding Dublin Airport, yes the new runway, and subsequently the new terminal. It makes absolute sense for all sorts of reasons for the primary gateway into and out of Ireland to be in state ownership.

Cork is part of the DAA. They're actually moaning about the regional airports getting funding that they don't. Shannon were let leave the DAA, and they have the same gripes.

What you're suggesting is that airports which aren't viable should shut. Therefore you are also implying that airports which aren't viable shouldn't repoen. I'd probably agree with you there, as it seems crazy for Waterford Airport to continue to soak up public money despite the fact that you can't fly anywhere.

All moneys that the councils hold are public moneys.

You have focused on the cost and ignored benefits to the region..hence short sighted! It is not solely a private operation..the Council own the land.

We're an island nation, so it makes sense for the regions to have direct air access to allow them compete and be a counter balance for Dublin.

Lets call a spade a spade..neither Cork or Shannon would be allowed closes if their finances did'nt add up. They'd be pumped full of state money.

It was a rhetorical question. I'm not saying that they should close. They got to the position of where they are now, with no shortage of state investment. This is money well spent as they are a huge benefit to their regions, same as Kerry and Knock..they all have Jet runways, Waterford just needs the same.

Public money it may be, but not state money, it doesn't go back to the exchequer. Waterford people give millions to the council each year, the council obviously feel investing a small amount of that in the regions airport is sensible use of this money. Kilkenny and Wexford councils feel similiar.