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Waterford Airport.

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    #1922
    curmudgeonly
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    But it might get contaminated!!!!!!!!


    :)

    Love the smell of jet A1 and whiskey but not together


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    #1923
    mooseknunkle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mooseknunkle


    curmudgeonly wrote: »
    Would assume so, Dan Brown has been hard on the case for three years.
    We live in hope, a bit bemused by the conditions Lord Ross attached,essentially build it finance it and then we'll give you the moola.

    Again I urge people to listen to Cullens interview above, the realpolitik is no Minister no power.
    Those conditions would not be there if we had a heavy hitter from any bloody party.

    This is the bit i dont get,so who has to build it do the investors have to double their money in the hope of getting it back from the government when its built ?


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    #1924
    curmudgeonly
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    This is the bit i dont get,so who has to build it do the investors have to double their money in the hope of getting it back from the government when its built ?

    The Airport will have to bridge the 5m from a bank ,and repay if the government lives up to its promise.


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    #1925
    Fox Uniform
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Fox Uniform


    curmudgeonly wrote: »
    The Airport will have to bridge the 5m from a bank ,and repay if the government lives up to its promise.

    Less delays this way - Bank will produce loan quicker than government.

    Better to get it build and deal with any government sh1tstorm when it's complete 😂


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    #1926
    mooseknunkle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mooseknunkle


    curmudgeonly wrote: »
    The Airport will have to bridge the 5m from a bank ,and repay if the government lives up to its promise.

    In the grand scheme of things 5m is nothing it should just be given without any conditions,like you said if we had a minister this wouldn't even be mentioned.


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    #1927
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Could be a good earner for Waterford, obviously aviation has a limited future but they could develop something substantial over the next decade. Hundreds of jobs directly and indirectly.


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    #1928
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    obviously aviation has a limited future

    I don’t think that can be taken as a given! Why would it have a limited future? Carbon taxes? If we can decarbonise land transportation, home heating, the electricity grid and agriculture, we needn’t worry about air transport emissions.

    Also don’t forget that electric planes are being developed. True, they’re way off being a mass-market proposition, but once batteries with the appropriate energy density are available, then it will be up, up and away!

    Aviation is far from dead!


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    #1929
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I don’t think aviation is a priority for decarbonisation while this country still burns turf to produce electricity


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    #1930
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    marno21 wrote: »
    I don’t think aviation is a priority for decarbonisation while this country still burns turf to produce electricity

    Yeah, I mean there is no lower hanging fruit really! Peat is bundled into the “other” category on Eirgrid’s Smart Dashboard, so I don’t know the exact figure, but that “other” figure was 10% of electricity generation last month. I assume peat makes up the lion’s share of that. coal was 1.38% and renewables were 26%. I know this is a little off-topic, but I really don’t see us going after aviation when there are so many other “quick wins” available in terms of cleaning up the electricity grid.

    Bottom line and back on topic: we shouldn’t worry about whether aviation will continue to grow in a world increasingly concerned with carbon emissions.


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    #1931
    space2ground1
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭space2ground1


    Should we concerned by this 'funding model' of agreeing to pay for something but only when it's finished? I wonder is that condition a surprise or an indirect spanner in the works?


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    #1932
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    space2ground1 wrote: »
    Should we concerned by this 'funding model' of agreeing to pay for something but only when it's finished? I wonder is that condition a surprise or an indirect spanner in the works?

    Public money can only be paid for something when the work is actually completed or service has been provided- whether it's a tray of sandwiches or a road.


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    #1933
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    In the grand scheme of things 5m is nothing it should just be given without any conditions,like you said if we had a minister this wouldn't even be mentioned.

    Free money?

    It's important that the airport have to follow these conditions. It'll help keep them on track if nothing else.


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    #1934
    space2ground1
    Registered Users Posts: 559 ✭✭✭space2ground1


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Public money can only be paid for something when the work is actually completed or service has been provided- whether it's a tray of sandwiches or a road.

    Are the other airports who were funded today receiving the money immediately or are they under the same conditions as Waterford?


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    #1935
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    space2ground1 wrote: »
    Are the other airports who were funded today receiving the money immediately or are they under the same conditions as Waterford?

    I've got no idea - do you?

    Edit - grant funding is possible in advance of work being completed, but I think it's important that fairly clear conditions attached - like conditions that the work will be progressed as described etc., to avoid a scenario where the private company spends all the public money first before spending their own etc.


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    #1936
    Masala
    Registered Users Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭Masala


    space2ground1 wrote: »
    Are the other airports who were funded today receiving the money immediately or are they under the same conditions as Waterford?

    Capital grants operate on a Claim basis....proof of invoice, proof of paymrnt all certified by either auditor or engineer. So... you pay first and get reimbursed..


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    #1937
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    It seems like the government has some doubts - either that the job can actually be done for €12 million or that the private investors are actually willing to pay up as promised.

    Looks like they fear it will end up costing a lot more and want to make it clear at the outset that they will commit to no more than €5m. Now it's up to the airport to make sure they can stay within the budget they have set or else milk more cash from the investors.

    This could end up being a lot less straightforward than is currently being suggested.


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    #1938
    Fox Uniform
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Fox Uniform


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    It seems like the government has some doubts - either that the job can actually be done for €12 million or that the private investors are actually willing to pay up as promised.

    Looks like they fear it will end up costing a lot more and want to make it clear at the outset that they will commit to no more than €5m. Now it's up to the airport to make sure they can stay within the budget they have set or else milk more cash from the investors.

    This could end up being a lot less straightforward than is currently being suggested.

    As Masala said......

    Capital grants operate on a Claim basis....proof of invoice, proof of paymrnt all certified by either auditor or engineer. So... you pay first and get reimbursed.

    Could not have put it better myself, there's nothing new or unexpected here.


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    #1939
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Similar "Shane Ross' Office" strings do not appear to have been attached to the IWAK grant.


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    #1940
    Gardner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Gardner


    Masala wrote: »
    Capital grants operate on a Claim basis....proof of invoice, proof of paymrnt all certified by either auditor or engineer. So... you pay first and get reimbursed..

    that's something that didn't register with Ray Griffin this morning on WLR news. embarrassing stuff

    it's simple as this! funding is there from all parties but it's now up to the board of management to get their ass in gear and drive on!


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    #1941
    invara
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭invara


    Gardner wrote: »
    that's something that didn't register with Ray Griffin this morning on WLR news. embarrassing stuff

    it's simple as this! funding is there from all parties but it's now up to the board of management to get their ass in gear and drive on!

    Gardner- I know a little of how the state and our public service operates. Knock has €5,761,738 into its bank account. The SE has an agreement in principle. If the Government falls anytime before they convert this worthless agreement in principle (3 years after making the promise in the programme for Govt- which is the full lifetime of the original C+S agreement) into actual money- we have nothing. Knock has €5.7m today, we got nothing.
    I am not embarrassed to fight for fairness for this region, and call it out when we get shafted.


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    #1942
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Ryanair have today ruled out returning to Waterford in any case (although, as always, you can never say never).

    https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/waterford-airport-ireland-ryanair-flights-runway-gatwick-a8954776.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true


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    #1943
    ExoPolitic
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    Cosmo Kramer wrote:
    Ryanair appear to have ruled out returning to Waterford in any case (although, as always, you can never say never).


    Ryanair say a lot of things, when there's cash to be made, there's cash to be made.


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    #1944
    curmudgeonly
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    Ryanair have today ruled out returning to Waterford in any case (although, as always, you can never say never).

    https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/waterford-airport-ireland-ryanair-flights-runway-gatwick-a8954776.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

    Until someone else expresses an interest,like Easyjet.


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    #1945
    mickger844posts
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭mickger844posts


    From reading through previous posts am I right in saying that Knock Kerry etc. have their funding from government in the bank already and only if Waterford meet certain criteria it will get the cash??
    If that’s the case looks like Waterford getting shafted again.
    Although the corporate backers do seem like they are serious about the project but still unfair if Waterford has to wait with ifs and buts.


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    #1946
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    mickger844posts wrote: »
    From reading through previous posts am I right in saying that Knock Kerry etc. have their funding from government in the bank already and only if Waterford meet certain criteria it will get the cash??
    If that’s the case looks like Waterford getting shafted again.
    Although the corporate backers do seem like they are serious about the project but still unfair if Waterford has to wait with ifs and buts.

    I think it'd be great if someone could clear that up too, but the airport folks really just need to get on with their business and if they do that they'll be fine.

    A company isn't going to move ahead without at least a letter of comfort, and NQs would be a similar example you'd imagine.


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    #1947
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    It's got a whiff of everyone down here being set up to fail by Lord Ross of Rathdown.


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    #1948
    DLS_75
    Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭DLS_75


    Gardner wrote: »
    that's something that didn't register with Ray Griffin this morning on WLR news. embarrassing stuff

    it's simple as this! funding is there from all parties but it's now up to the board of management to get their ass in gear and drive on!

    Honestly, do you work for John Halligan or are you just related to him?


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    #1949
    Fox Uniform
    Registered Users Posts: 36 ✭Fox Uniform


    mickger844posts wrote: »
    From reading through previous posts am I right in saying that Knock Kerry etc. have their funding from government in the bank already and only if Waterford meet certain criteria it will get the cash??
    If that’s the case looks like Waterford getting shafted again.
    Although the corporate backers do seem like they are serious about the project but still unfair if Waterford has to wait with ifs and buts.

    As far as im aware its all the same - I've heard of this type of payment system almost 15 years ago.

    Knock Airport will get a short term loan of 4.5 million from the bank to resurface the runway, when works are complete they send a final invoice to government, they will complete payment and the bank is repaid.

    This is the way its always been but some are trying to make it sound negative.

    Government have given commitment, loans will be given by bank - Investors are big players and are not going with eyes closed.

    Right now I can only see positive in yesterdays announcement, This secures the future of Waterford Airport and most importantly Rescue 117


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    #1950
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/waterford-airport-sets-sights-on-12m-lifeline-930146.html

    This article appears to make it very clear that Waterford's grant come with conditions whereas Knock's does not.


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    #1951
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/waterford-airport-sets-sights-on-12m-lifeline-930146.html

    This article appears to make it very clear that Waterford's grant come with conditions whereas Knock's does not.

    Ah so the private investors are being asked to honour their commitment. That seems fair enough.


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