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Waterford Airport.

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    #1952
    mickger844posts
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭mickger844posts


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/waterford-airport-sets-sights-on-12m-lifeline-930146.html

    This article appears to make it very clear that Waterford's grant come with conditions whereas Knock's does not.

    Yeah fairly clear in that article that conditions do apply to Waterford being granted the funding.
    Why is everything never straight forward when it comes to Waterford getting something it needs.


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    #1953
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    Ryanair have today ruled out returning to Waterford in any case (although, as always, you can never say never).

    https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/waterford-airport-ireland-ryanair-flights-runway-gatwick-a8954776.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true

    That's a bit distorted.

    Quote is: The Independent asked Ryanair if it intends to return to its roots, but a spokesperson said: “We have no plans for the near future.”

    Of course they have no plans for the near future. There is no firm plan at the minute relating to the runway extension. When it becomes clear when the job will be done then Ryanair can start making plans. Ryanair don't make plans based on hypothetical scenarios.


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    #1954
    mooseknunkle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭mooseknunkle


    Realistically what airlines/destinations could we be looking at when this is all up and running?


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    #1955
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    Realistically what airlines/destinations could we be looking at when this is all up and running?

    London would do......?


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    #1956
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    Realistically what airlines/destinations could we be looking at when this is all up and running?

    London would do......?


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    #1957
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    Realistically what airlines/destinations could we be looking at when this is all up and running?

    London would be absolutely top of the list

    Charter flights/non daily flights to holiday destinations such as the Canaries/south of Spain etc would be next

    Then possibly with the airport back up and running regional routes to Manchester/Birmingham/Edinburgh would be next (yes I realize these are possible at the minute with the existing runway but they would become more viable as the airport takes off and is active - there is a possibility some of these could be operated by 737s similar to FR at Knock)

    The decision by locals to support the airport will be a key factor here - Knock and Kerry receive excellent support from locals and the locals are aware of the requirement to support the asset they have on their hands - this will be needed in Waterford also not just people moaning about how **** the airport is and getting on the bus to Dublin to fly to London.

    The amount of people who get the bus to Dublin from Cork to fly to London/Liverpool/Manchester, in the process saving nothing or less than the bus fare, while spending their lives complaining about how **** Cork Airport is without actually checking the flights of Cork is depressingly appalling

    This news is wonderful for Waterford. For a region which regularly is neglected and given a shafting, it is being given an opportunity now to make a success of a useful asset.


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    #1958
    Deise Vu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Deise Vu


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    Realistically what airlines/destinations could we be looking at when this is all up and running?

    For one glorious year when the late and very great Nicky Fewer was involved,the Airport board leased a plane themselves which did weekly flights to Toulouse, Malaga and Faro (and possibly St Herblain?). There might have been two flights a week to some of the destinations, I can't recall exactly. And that was just with one smallish plane.

    If the price is right there is definitely enough of a catchment area to support a variety of flights. We also need Bord Failte to locate us on a map to generate traffic in both directions.


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    #1959
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    The Nicky Fewer group used a BAe 146 plane to Toulouse I believe. Not that small, but was capable of short take off and landing I believe. The nerds out there will know better.


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    #1960
    curmudgeonly
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    Yep BAE bring another engine! I left an apartment outside Marbella after an early breakfast and had lunch at home the same day on one of those flights.
    Bliss


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    #1961
    Dum_Dum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Dum_Dum


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    Realistically what airlines/destinations could we be looking at when this is all up and running?


    A low cost carrier with one return flight daily to one of the London airports (LTN/LGW/STN).

    A regional UK or NW European destination 3-4 times week - perhaps Poland too.

    Summer seasonal holiday flights to Spain (e.g. Malaga or Alicante or Lanzarote).


    What's outlined above is similar to the situation before our National Bankruptcy.


    With the potential involvement of Dublin Aerospace, I have a feeling the Airport will not be fully reliant on passenger traffic anyway. This allows the whimsical and fickle low cost carriers to come and go without impacting on the sustainability of the Airport.


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    #1962
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Is there any scope for a plane to Dublin? ;)

    There would surely be some opportunities for event charters esp based around sport - flights to London/Paris/Rome/Edinburgh for the rugby for example.


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    #1963
    curmudgeonly
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Is there any scope for a plane to Dublin? ;)

    There would surely be some opportunities for event charters esp based around sport - flights to London/Paris/Rome/Edinburgh for the rugby for example.

    None you would drive to Dublin/Waterford by the time you got out to DUB and got to Wat


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    #1964
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,413 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Is there any scope for a plane to Dublin? ;)

    There would surely be some opportunities for event charters esp based around sport - flights to London/Paris/Rome/Edinburgh for the rugby for example.

    None whatsoever and pointless- far too short a distance to be viable. Donegal and Kerry only viable with subsidies and look how far they are from Dublin. WAT would be the nearest regional airport to Dublin


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    #1965
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Realistically there might be scope for a daily flight to Stansted, three or four flights a week to Manchester, maybe once or twice a week to Alicante or Faro and a weekly flight to Lanzarote.

    The catchment really isn't there for any more than that as the airport is on the wrong side of Waterford to draw enough people in to it.


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    #1966
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    There is a thing called the Waterford city By pass and Outer Ring Road which afford easy access to anyone who wants to fly from Waterford. The New Ross By pass links in with this and opens all of south Wexford up to the same easy access road network. This criticism might have held water before the road network around Waterford city was upgraded, but has little validity at this stage.


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    #1967
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    Right, but even then your catchment is most of Waterford (but not so much the western end of the county which is nearer to Cork), south Kilkenny and south Wexford. Maybe the very southeastern corner of Tipp. Realistically that's a catchment of 200,000 people or thereabouts. Less than five percent of the population. No doubt a small number may travel to the airport from slightly further away but many more from within that catchment will continue to choose Dublin or Cork for various reasons.

    People do need to be realistic about the extent of routes that can be sustained with such a small catchment, most of which are within reach of other airports also. Even if the runway extension gets built, Waterford will be doing well to get to the point where it is catering for two to three 737/A320 rotations a day.


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    #1968
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    As pointed out the real point of this is almost certainly not scheduled flights but industry maintenance.


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    #1969
    ExoPolitic
    Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭ExoPolitic


    Cosmo Kramer wrote:
    Realistically there might be scope for a daily flight to Stansted, three or four flights a week to Manchester, maybe once or twice a week to Alicante or Faro and a weekly flight to Lanzarote.

    Cosmo Kramer wrote:
    The catchment really isn't there for any more than that as the airport is on the wrong side of Waterford to draw enough people in to it.


    And a flight to Amsterdam, connect there for a multitude of flights around the world.


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    #1970
    curmudgeonly
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    As pointed out the real point of this is almost certainly not scheduled flights but industry maintenance.

    This is the money shot!


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    #1971
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,710 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Anyone see Independent today....


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    #1972
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    I was just about to mention that. Not bitter at all, eh?

    It’s splashed across the front page and pushed to my phone as a notification this morning.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/shane-rosss-5m-grant-for-airport-with-no-flights-38218208.html


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    #1973
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    ExoPolitic wrote: »
    And a flight to Amsterdam, connect there for a multitude of flights around the world.

    No runway extension needed for that, nothing to stop KLM Cityhopper putting one of their E175s on that route tomorrow if they think it's viable and yet they haven't done so.

    FWIW I don't see much of an issue with the newspaper article. The airport has no flights, that's the situation as it stands. It's not a good look. Expect much more of the same if this ever actually happens.

    (although having said that they're a bit late with the headline, it is two day old news.)


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    #1974
    Squidvicious
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Squidvicious


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Anyone see Independent today....

    Quite extraordinary that a spend of €5m is considered worthy of a front page headline of a national newspaper. Is this the best example of government overspend or alleged wasteful expenditure that they could come up with? Have they heard of the children's hospital overspend or the current massive over-run on health spending? The headline is probably more to do with putting the boot into Shane Ross.


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    #1975
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    I think a lot of it is more to do with Ross but it means it's a big national news story now, been all over the radio this morning. Will be interesting to see what impact, if any, that has on the delivery of the project.


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    #1976
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Squidvicious wrote: »
    Quite extraordinary that a spend of €5m is considered worthy of a front page headline of a national newspaper. Is this the best example of government overspend or alleged wasteful expenditure that they could come up with? Have they heard of the children's hospital overspend or the current massive over-run on health spending? The headline is probably more to do with putting the boot into Shane Ross.

    They have a term for this in the US, good old boy journalism. Some director in Dublin or Cork airport has a golf buddy a journalist in the Independent. They get them to do a story like this to try and stop the funding. Because if Waterford airport is a success it will take business from Dublin or Cork airport. This is what this story smacks of to me. Every rare time Waterford gets funding like this there is something wrong with it. There is no need for WIT to be made a university, there is no need for 24 hour cardiac care ye can die on the side of the road in ambulances and on and on I could go. How much money is wasted by the government on pet ministerial projects around the country? Billions! €5 million to part fund the upgrade of Waterford Airport is a tiny sum and the kind of thing the government committed to doing in their 2040 plan.


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    #1977
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    As pointed out the article is as much an attack on the independent group as anything.


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    #1978
    Squidvicious
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Squidvicious


    Cosmo Kramer wrote: »
    I think a lot of it is more to do with Ross but it means it's a big national news story now, been all over the radio this morning. Will be interesting to see what impact, if any, that has on the delivery of the project.
    I suppose this will be next for national scrutiny so. What a disgraceful waste of public money. I sincerely hope that it gets the national airtime that it deserves and that they have a Primetime special on it.
    https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/home/345980/tipperary-county-council-signs-contract-for-3m-borrisokane-road-works.html


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    #1979
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,019 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    I seem to recall €9 million being spent by government on a new cinema in Galway? Did that make front page news?


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    #1980
    Squidvicious
    Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Squidvicious


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    I seem to recall €9 million being spent by government on a new cinema in Galway? Did that make front page news?
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/work-to-resume-shortly-on-galway-arthouse-cinema-1.2851736
    Yes, you're quite right, Azimuth. Beyond belief that airport spending of €5m makes the front page of a national newspaper.


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    #1981
    blue note
    Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭blue note


    Speaking as a proud Waterford, I find it very hard to defend this. Cork and Dublin airports are far too near to be able to justify an airport on waterford at all. I'd say the same of the other small regional airports.

    €5m isn't all that much money in the scheme of things, but the real problem is that it just reeks of parish pump politics. From what I can see this is halligan getting out for waterford because he's mates with Shane ross. And if he's involved in that, I can see why others would assume things like the cardiac care issue or waterford University are the same.


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