Waterford Airport.

reni10

CelticRambler wrote: »

Yes. But something quite different to what y'all are used to.

And what is that then?

Teebor15

CelticRambler, since you would not answer my question on the other thread but have popped up here instead I'll ask again.

You have been posting your ideas since 2011 and claiming that unlike Waterford, other airports/regions were very keen on your proposals and that Waterford/South east were looking a gift horse in the mouth and were going to miss the boat big time as lots of other airports/regions were lining up to do business with you if Waterford didn't play ball. Since then or ever even have you or your 'company' operated flights to other airports/regions in Ireland or Europe?

CelticRambler

Your question has been answered: the airport (any airport) provides access to a strip of tarmac suitable for aircraft to land and take off. Without radical commercial imagination, that's the beginning and the end of what an airport can offer. Our group of businesses involves the exchange of goods, ideas, services and people between different regions, and yes, we have being moving these by air (and land and sea) for a couple of decades.

Well before 2011, we identified Waterford as the ideal airport for trialling a new business model, but as the model is based on normal commercial operations - not the kind of fantasy figures that are considered normal in aviation economics - we needed the full cooperation of the local population. Until very recently, that was completely lacking in Waterford. Not the airport, but the local community, and only Waterford - not Wexford/Kilkenny/etc. In the last three months of 2014, however, that suddenly changed and we do now have the critical mass of interested parties that we need, bearing in mind that there are always two ends to any route and both markets have to be ready at the same time.

In addition, following the recent break-up of a dinosaur airline, we have the cooperation of an AOC partner with a bit of imagination and a willingness to do things our way (up to a point ) which means we can finally move forward with this, create new opportunities for others aswell as not waste so much time sending our own people and products by road to airports that are in the wrong place (e.g. Dublin, Paris, London ...)

dzilla

CelticRambler wrote: »

Your question has been answered: the airport (any airport) provides access to a strip of tarmac suitable for aircraft to land and take off. Without radical commercial imagination, that's the beginning and the end of what an airport can offer. Our group of businesses involves the exchange of goods, ideas, services and people between different regions, and yes, we have being moving these by air (and land and sea) for a couple of decades.

Well before 2011, we identified Waterford as the ideal airport for trialling a new business model, but as the model is based on normal commercial operations - not the kind of fantasy figures that are considered normal in aviation economics - we needed the full cooperation of the local population. Until very recently, that was completely lacking in Waterford. Not the airport, but the local community, and only Waterford - not Wexford/Kilkenny/etc. In the last three months of 2014, however, that suddenly changed and we do now have the critical mass of interested parties that we need, bearing in mind that there are always two ends to any route and both markets have to be ready at the same time.

In addition, following the recent break-up of a dinosaur airline, we have the cooperation of an AOC partner with a bit of imagination and a willingness to do things our way (up to a point ) which means we can finally move forward with this, create new opportunities for others aswell as not waste so much time sending our own people and products by road to airports that are in the wrong place (e.g. Dublin, Paris, London ...)

I have been reading your posts on aviation forum regarding this. I hope it works out for you and if so I look forward to seeing your planes come into the airport. Unless its a complete loss leader I cant see it as being anythingbbut positive.

notharrypotter

dzilla wrote: »

I have been reading your posts on aviation forum regarding this. I hope it works out for you and if so I look forward to seeing your planes come into the airport. Unless its a complete loss leader I cant see it as being anythingbbut positive.

I have followed Celticrambler's postings on boards.ie about his proposal with interest.

You allude to more details posted on another forum.
I would be interested in having a read.
Can you post a link?

CantGetNoSleep

CelticRambler wrote: »

Your question has been answered: the airport (any airport) provides access to a strip of tarmac suitable for aircraft to land and take off. Without radical commercial imagination, that's the beginning and the end of what an airport can offer. Our group of businesses involves the exchange of goods, ideas, services and people between different regions, and yes, we have being moving these by air (and land and sea) for a couple of decades.

Well before 2011, we identified Waterford as the ideal airport for trialling a new business model, but as the model is based on normal commercial operations - not the kind of fantasy figures that are considered normal in aviation economics - we needed the full cooperation of the local population. Until very recently, that was completely lacking in Waterford. Not the airport, but the local community, and only Waterford - not Wexford/Kilkenny/etc. In the last three months of 2014, however, that suddenly changed and we do now have the critical mass of interested parties that we need, bearing in mind that there are always two ends to any route and both markets have to be ready at the same time.

In addition, following the recent break-up of a dinosaur airline, we have the cooperation of an AOC partner with a bit of imagination and a willingness to do things our way (up to a point ) which means we can finally move forward with this, create new opportunities for others aswell as not waste so much time sending our own people and products by road to airports that are in the wrong place (e.g. Dublin, Paris, London ...)

How can you say the local community won't support it if we don't even know what it is boy?

CelticRambler

Don't bother trawling the net for old posts. The model is designed to evolve (rapidly, when the need arises) and some of the points raised in the past were deliberately ... provocative, shall we say - it's a handy way to identify weakness and opportunities. Just hang on a little longer for the detail, or if you're really desperate, go find a Waterford councillor and talk to them.

BuffyBot

The crueller amongst us are probably thinking of evolving the term vaporware to vaporair. I'll be the first to de-evolve should it happen, but you'll probably understand why people are suspicious considering your rather vague claim history on this site.

While I'm here, it would be remiss of me as a site Admin to remind you that if you're representing a business on this site (which to me it appears you are) you may wish to re-acquaint yourself with the site policies regarding such activities.

CelticRambler

Vagueness is hazard when trying to contribute usefully to a public discussion without falling foul of forum rules.

JCX BXC

CelticRambler wrote: »

Yes. But something quite different to what y'all are used to.

So thats effectively no?

Suspense doesn't do anyone favours here.

CantGetNoSleep

Unless you like talking out of your a*se

dzilla

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Unless you like talking out of your a*se

Ah here relax. Adults only.

nkay1985

CelticRambler wrote: »

Don't bother trawling the net for old posts. The model is designed to evolve (rapidly, when the need arises) and some of the points raised in the past were deliberately ... provocative, shall we say - it's a handy way to identify weakness and opportunities. Just hang on a little longer for the detail, or if you're really desperate, go find a Waterford councillor and talk to them.

I happen to know one such councillor. What should I ask him to find out what you're talking about?

Dum_Dum

Why does everything have to be so cryptic? Is the place being converted into a spaceport or something?

Teebor15

CelticRambler wrote: »

Your question has been answered: the airport (any airport) provides access to a strip of tarmac suitable for aircraft to land and take off. Without radical commercial imagination, that's the beginning and the end of what an airport can offer. Our group of businesses involves the exchange of goods, ideas, services and people between different regions, and yes, we have being moving these by air (and land and sea) for a couple of decades.

This sounds like the response a politician would give. So just to clarify, when you say you have been moving people by air for a couple of decades do you mean YOU or your company have been operating/chartering/scheduling aircraft or do you mean you have just been buying tickets on already existing flights of other airlines?

Last March you said on this or the aviation forum that the other airports you were negotiating with were very keen compared to the muted response from Waterford. Did you operate/charter/schedule from these airports or have you ever operated/chartered/scheduled flights to any airports anywhere, ever?

Sorry for having to spell out what I'm asking but I feel I have to do this to prevent you from interpreting it the way you want to rather than what both you and I know what I'm really asking. Even just a yes or No would be suffice.

And just to say again I'm all for any business that supports the airports and would be over the moon to see you succeed with you venture, I'm just curious!

CelticRambler

Teebor15 wrote: »

This sounds like the response a politician would give. ....
Sorry for having to spell out what I'm asking ...
... I'm just curious!

BuffyBot wrote: »

While I'm here, it would be remiss of me as a site Admin to remind you that if you're representing a business on this site (which to me it appears you are) you may wish to re-acquaint yourself with the site policies regarding such activities.

Curiosity will have to be satisfied by other means.

JCX BXC

CelticRambler wrote: »

Curiosity will have to be satisfied by other means.

What are you even talking about?

This has to be the most futile and hard to interpret conversation on this fourm.

Should we get back into more of a discussion about Waterford airport and not whatever crap your trying to feed us. It looks like Waterford won't have any scheduled services after March. Will this spell the end for the airport?

man98

Carnacalla wrote:

Waterford won't have any scheduled services after March. Will this spell the end for the airport?

I don't think so. In my opinion CelticRambler's plans will go ahead, which is a major plus for the airport. On top of that I see a British route on the horizon, Manchester/ Birmingham/ Bristol IMO, given this runway extension is completely finished for 2016.

Teebor15

Curiosity will have to be satisfied by other means.

You stay there and hide behind an admin he will tell the bold boys to leave you alone.

And there you have it..just as I suspected. You won't answer the question because the answer is No, you have never operated flights to anywhere. In fact you have no experience in the aviation sector at all. All those other airports who were banging down your door for your business were in fact banging it closed in your face!

Don't bother trawling the net for old posts.

Because you might come across this one http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/454730-viatriskel.html where just like here when anyone asks awkward questions, our great saviour of Waterford Airport strangely goes missing. How is your Southend operation going by the way or at all the other airports on your website http://viatriskel.com/vt_routes_en.htm

Its easy to come on here and speak to people, the majority who desperately want the airport to succeed but through no fault of their own do not understand the cut throat and logistical challenges a small airport like Waterford faces in trying to do just that. Like a prophet from the dark ages they will unwittingly hang on to your 'vision' as a way forward but as can be seen from the link above when the aviation hard hitters row in and tear you a new one you realise your in over your head and *puff* you disappear off to find more gullible sheep somewhere else to preach to.

I'm all for any new business that helps sustain the airport as I believe it is vital for the region to have air access be it for fare paying passengers or at worst even just for the many executive aircraft that visit every month who see the airport as important to allow them to establish, sustain or grow their own business in the South East. So in that sense I would love to see you achieve your vision but don't come on here like your the messiah, fooling people into thinking that the airport is turning away a gift horse and should be just glad you choose us ahead of all the other little airports in Europe.

The reality is your vision is just a dream, a nice romantic dream in an ideal world where we all visit each others countries to exchange gifts and crafts and dance around in a circle holding hands after forking out 300 euro for the privilege. You have no experience in aviation or the real costs involved as has been highlighted in the thread link above.

If you do manage to start flights from Waterford, which I very much doubt, I can see them finishing almost before they start as whatever airline you get into bed with will see you a mile off, happily take your money until it quickly runs out then bid you "Adieu"!

If it doesn't work out it wont be your fault, it will be the people of Waterford's fault for not supporting your 'fairytale', that's the problem with dillusional people, there just no talking to them!

Of course if I'm wrong on this then I will gladly tuck into the largest slice of humble pie on the table and savour every bite!

Plane Fan

Does anybody here know if the airport are actually in talks with any airline to replace the lost routes after March?
Surely, if an operator wanted the routes they would have flights on sale pretty soon

air2000

Plane Fan wrote: »

Does anybody here know if the airport are actually in talks with any airline to replace the lost routes after March?
Surely, if an operator wanted the routes they would have flights on sale pretty soon

Yes they are but from what I hear it will be the end of the month before any update.

Plane Fan

air2000 wrote: »

Yes they are but from what I hear it will be the end of the month before any update.

Thanks for that
Are the talk progressing do you know?
Will we have an announcement in late Jan so?

comeraghs

Huge huge potential there for a London - Waterford flight. There must be some airline that can see that surely.

savic04

It is a pity Aer Lingus Regional (Eddie Stobart) took aircrafts to fly Dublin to Manchester routes. Aer Lingus though has used the A320's that used to fly this route for further a filed new routes so probably was better managed.

In its current state, I just cant see any other airline making it viable.
Unless a new airline was to start up perhaps which is highly unlikely

man98

savic04 wrote:

In its current state, I just cant see any other airline making it viable. Unless a new airline was to start up perhaps which is highly unlikely

I don't think so. Say Etihad Regional based a Saab 2000 in Waterford as feeder traffic, as well as flying to Manchester and London. Any airlines with a presence in London has the opportunity to fly to Waterford, whether they take advantage of it is another question.

JCX BXC

man98 wrote: »

I don't think so. Say Etihad Regional based a Saab 2000 in Waterford as feeder traffic, as well as flying to Manchester and London. Any airlines with a presence in London has the opportunity to fly to Waterford, whether they take advantage of it is another question.

Any airlines with turboprops can fly to Waterford.

TheQuietFella

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0108/671308-weather-warning/

Just enquiring if we had the runway extended would we be capable of dealing with 'some' of these flights?

The terminal would hardly accommodate that amount of passengers I suppose!

man98

An A319 could theoretically land on low fuel in Waterford I'd say (I've heard of 757s diverting to 1550 metre runways) but, unless handling staff could be called in...

notharrypotter

TheQuietFella wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0108/671308-weather-warning/

Just enquiring if we had the runway extended would we be capable of dealing with 'some' of these flights?

The terminal would hardly accommodate that amount of passengers I suppose!

Its not as simple as having a longer runway to accommodate diversions.

Fire cover, ATC and ground staff need to be present.

So too is physical space too park the aircraft.

Per AIP Ireland there is only 1 stand.

Unless there is no other option Waterford would not be considered.

b757

That AIP is 12 years out of date.

Used to fit 3 ATR 72's/BAe146's plus a couple of business jets.