Waterford Airport.

Rustyman101

Another kick in bo***x being lined up for the city no doubt.

https://www.wlrfm.com/2021/05/06/matt-shanahan-td-says-waterford-could-lose-rescue-117-service/

Wanderer78

Rustyman101 wrote: »

Another kick in bo***x being lined up for the city no doubt.

https://www.wlrfm.com/2021/05/06/matt-shanahan-td-says-waterford-could-lose-rescue-117-service/

fcuk sake, this, again!

Harry Palmr

No only that was mentioned. Serious enough on it's own account of course.

Dunmoreroader

Yes I've seen a couple of articles in the Business Post over the past fortnight about the Air Corps making a case to take over the Search & Rescue contract for the country starting with the East Coast. Then the following weeks edition had some vested interest on writing 'no, the East Coast is too busy, let them pitch for the SouthEast area instead'

914

They Aer Core previously operated the SAR service and were based in WAT.

The south east can not be covered from Baldonnel. If the Aer Core took back over SAR, I would still expect them to be based in WAT, the big concern here would be, the current pilots, winch personal, engineers would be out of work as you would expect military personal to run the service, unless Aer Core provide crew and go with civilians for engineers.

That said a new contract could be politically influenced, cork airport has struggled in the past and will no doubt struggle after covid, basing SAR services there would ensure corks future, and that is where politics get involved.

They only way R117 is removed from Waterford would be purely down to politics.

914

The current CHC contract has been for 10 years, awarded in 2010 and began in 2012. A year extension has been granted as the new contract goes to tender.

Masala

914 wrote: »

They Aer Core previously operated the SAR service and were based in WAT.

The south east can not be covered from Baldonnel. If the Aer Core took back over SAR, I would still expect them to be based in WAT, the big concern here would be, the current pilots, winch personal, engineers would be out of work as you would expect military personal to run the service, unless Aer Core provide crew and go with civilians for engineers.

That said a new contract could be politically influenced, cork airport has struggled in the past and will no doubt struggle after covid, basing SAR services there would ensure corks future, and that is where politics get involved.

They only way R117 is removed from Waterford would be purely down to politics.

Jeez... don’t think Cork are down to their last fiver yet!!!! Sure they have €30m to throw at resurfacing the runway so can’t be struggling that much. Anyway theres a ball of Government Grants coming their way after last years October budget so that should keep the heating on in ‘Ireland’s fastest growing airport’ for another few weeks.

Am sure they will be touching up the Cork politicians with secret meetings to steal this contract...... YES it’s gonna get political so the Waterford boys would want to be organized on this and not get blindsided.

914

Masala wrote: »

Jeez... don’t think Cork are down to their last fiver yet!!!! Sure they have €30m to throw at resurfacing the runway so can’t be struggling that much. Anyway theres a ball of Government Grants coming their way after last years October budget so that should keep the heating on in ‘Ireland’s fastest growing airport’ for another few weeks.

Am sure they will be touching up the Cork politicians with secret meetings to steal this contract...... YES it’s gonna get political so the Waterford boys would want to be organized on this and not get blindsided.

I was probably over dramatic with Corks struggles. I guess I was trying to say having SAR based in an airport is extra stability especially in post Covid world.

Without SAR in Waterford and Sligo I'm not sure either airport would be operational.

As I said I would expect it to remain in Waterford but also wouldn't be surprised if we began to see political interference to relocate SAR to Cork.

Didn't we have the whole push for reduced hours a number of years back where they service would only run from 7-7 or some ****e like that.

SeanieW1977

914 wrote: »

I was probably over dramatic with Corks struggles. I guess I was trying to say having SAR based in an airport is extra stability especially in post Covid world.

Without SAR in Waterford and Sligo I'm not sure either airport would be operational.

As I said I would expect it to remain in Waterford but also wouldn't be surprised if we began to see political interference to relocate SAR to Cork.

Didn't we have the whole push for reduced hours a number of years back where they service would only run from 7-7 or some ****e like that.

If we have to call a spade a spade here, if the airport is depending on an emergency service to keep it viable, then put it out of its misery now.

20 years this airport is on its knees, hand out after hand out - has it ever been viable?

The motorway to Dublin makes it more unviable now then ever! There isn’t even a public transport to airport in Waterford.

Harsh and all as it may seem, just needs to be put out of its misery now, it’s a nice to have not a necessity.

corkonion

In reality, a country the size of Ireland only needs one international airport with a good road infrastructure and maybe 2 regional airports, Waterford would not be in the mix, Dublin obviously as the international one, cork and Shannon as the regional ones, if Shannon didn’t already exist, the 2nd regional airport would be better located in Galway or Mayo

914

corkonion wrote: »

In reality, a country the size of Ireland only needs one international airport with a good road infrastructure and maybe 2 regional airports, Waterford would not be in the mix, Dublin obviously as the international one, cork and Shannon as the regional ones, if Shannon didn’t already exist, the 2nd regional airport would be better located in Galway or Mayo

Knock would cover the west/north west area.

Wanderer78

SeanieW1977 wrote:

Harsh and all as it may seem, just needs to be put out of its misery now, it’s a nice to have not a necessity.

... And move 117 as well?

SeanieW1977

Wanderer78 wrote: »

... And move 117 as well?

Leaving the wave of emotion behind - yea, the airport is a dead duck of course nobody will have the backbone to say it.

Reality is the Dublin motorway killed it - bringing Dublin closer to the waterford catchment area being the main issue.

Wanderer78

SeanieW1977 wrote:

Leaving the wave of emotion behind - yea, the airport is a dead duck of course nobody will have the backbone to say it.

The reality is, we all need 117 here, their work is critical to the region, its an extremely important element of our emergency services, I've watched them save lives, and attempting to do so, I'm beyond grateful for what they do.

The airport is obviously in a lot of trouble, and under current conditions, and with no carrier, it's future doesn't look great. but if our regions current development proposals occur, all transport infrastructure will be critical for there success, so I'd rather leave it hang there for these reasons. We have a history of shooting ourselves in regards critical transport infrastructure, rail especially, let's not do this again

BBM77

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

Leaving the wave of emotion behind - yea, the airport is a dead duck of course nobody will have the backbone to say it.

Reality is the Dublin motorway killed it - bringing Dublin closer to the waterford catchment area being the main issue.

Leaving the COVID blip aside. If Waterford Airport is so unviable why was a number of investors going to invests in it? Kilkenny Co Co and investors based abroad included.

Cosmo Kramer

On the basis that they'd be bailed out by the Government if necessary due to local political pressure maybe. Or maybe just because not all investments are good ones - certain people seem to have a thing about owning airlines or airports but, without government intervention, they can be massive loss makers as we have seen in the last year.

Look, I'm not from the south east, but I honestly don't really see the point of Waterford Airport since the motorway network was built. Galway Airport became unnecessary and unviable after the M6 opened and had to close in the end. The workers there staged a bit of a sit in for a few days but eventually just gave up and went home. They had to accept it no longer had a viable purpose.

Waterford has struggled on for some reason since then, political I guess. There hasn't been regular scheduled passenger flights in years. There's a motorway running from the city to the front door of a major European airport. There's also a viable regional airport in the next county over for people who prefer a quieter option. So basically the same situation as Galway found itself in. Waterford isn't some remote regional outpost as people there seem to think it is, it is located between the two biggest cities in the state and has access to the benefits of both cities' airports.

If we're being honest I'm sure the rescue service could be split with Dublin covering the Irish Sea coast and Cork covering the southern coastline easily enough. Maybe if this planning proposal is turned down it will be the trigger to finally turn off the lights.

SeanieW1977

BBM77 wrote: »

Leaving the COVID blip aside. If Waterford Airport is so unviable why was a number of investors going to invests in it? Kilkenny Co Co and investors based abroad included.

Let them all invest so & let’s see a thriving airport in a decades time.

I hope that to be the case, however history and odds are stacked massively against it.

Wanderer78

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

On the basis that they'd be bailed out by the Government if necessary due to local political pressure maybe. Or maybe just because not all investments are good ones - certain people seem to have a thing about owning airlines or airports but, without government intervention, they can be massive loss makers as we have seen in the last year.

Look, I'm not from the south east, but I honestly don't really see the point of Waterford Airport since the motorway network was built. Galway Airport became unnecessary and unviable after the M6 opened and had to close in the end. The workers there staged a bit of a sit in for a few days but eventually just gave up and went home. They had to accept it no longer had a viable purpose.

Waterford has struggled on for some reason since then, political I guess. There hasn't been regular scheduled passenger flights in years. There's a motorway running from the city to the front door of a major European airport. There's also a viable regional airport in the next county over for people who prefer a quieter option. So basically the same situation as Galway found itself in. Waterford isn't some remote regional outpost as people there seem to think it is, it is located between the two biggest cities in the state and has access to the benefits of both cities' airports.

If we're being honest I'm sure the rescue service could be split with Dublin covering the Irish Sea coast and Cork covering the southern coastline easily enough. Maybe if this planning proposal is turned down it will be the trigger to finally turn off the lights.

the airport is far more than just for carriers, as explained, 117 is truly critical to the region, public transport infrastructure doesnt always necessarily need to be financially viable, and by terminating such options, our default generally is towards the private vehicle, for obvious reasons, this to is unsustainable

curmudgeonly

WAT's future will be in maintenance and freight with PAX an added extra, as soon as this Covidcluster is over DUB will fill slots very smartly and the aforementioned will be seen as a distraction by them as was the case a couple of short years ago, even ORK did not want the SAR due to capacity issues a few years ago.

The proposed runway is a the business IMO and will at long last give them a business model they can plan a future with.

If you build it they will come.

BBM77

Where I live you can see planes coming and going the whole time to the airport. And that is without a carrier at the moment. This thing that Waterford Airport is unviable seems like bull to me.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

Where I live you can see planes coming and going the whole time to the airport. And that is without a carrier at the moment. This thing that Waterford Airport is unviable seems like bull to me.

largely private planes there, it does need to continually work on securing a carrier though

914

BBM77 wrote: »

Where I live you can see planes coming and going the whole time to the airport. And that is without a carrier at the moment. This thing that Waterford Airport is unviable seems like bull to me.

That is not enough to pay the bills. Generally light aviation, pilot lessons etc

Have a look at the landing fees https://www.flywaterford.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=150 and a lot of them would be touch and go with lessons. Some up take in fuel, again not a whole lot.

R117 is the big earner and some general aviation as in jet aircraft.

Take staff into account, fire crew, atc, management etc. Without R117, the airport simply isn't viable. This is why Galway is no more and Sligo is still running.

They need this runway extension, maintenance base of airline, increase general aviation and then have commerical flights as a bonus.

That is how it will grow, but we have two issues, will the government stump up their money and are the investors still willing to invest after the effects.of covid.

SeanieW1977

curmudgeonly wrote: »

WAT's future will be in maintenance and freight with PAX an added extra, as soon as this Covidcluster is over DUB will fill slots very smartly and the aforementioned will be seen as a distraction by them as was the case a couple of short years ago, even ORK did not want the SAR due to capacity issues a few years ago.

The proposed runway is a the business IMO and will at long last give them a business model they can plan a future with.

If you build it they will come.

Only saying that the 30 years now.

To paraphrase Johnny Logan - what’s another 30 years / million.

curmudgeonly

SeanieW1977 wrote: »

Only saying that the 30 years now.

To paraphrase Johnny Logan - what’s another 30 years / million.

Seanie, there are several pubs in Waterford I would not go into when they were open, because they had negative hurlers on the ditch like you at every counter.
I made the choice there, and now I make the it here, Lose negative people from your life as they will suck you dry.
Goodbye Seanie

SeanieW1977

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Seanie, there are several pubs in Waterford I would not go into when they were open, because they had negative hurlers on the ditch like you at every counter.
I made the choice there, and now I make the it here, Lose negative people from your life as they will suck you dry.
Goodbye Seanie

Let me know what pubs those are? Or better still the ones you visit.

I haven’t seen the inside of one in 18 months

Harry Palmr

R117 quietly does life saving work most weeks if we lose it there will be deaths that otherwise would not have occurred. Flying in from Cork or Dublin does not cut it when you're sinking off Hook head.

dzilla

Harry Palmr wrote: »

R117 quietly does life saving work most weeks if we lose it there will be deaths that otherwise would not have occurred. Flying in from Cork or Dublin does not cut it when you're sinking off Hook head.

100%

But my worry is that this is a similar situation to the cardiac 24/7 cover and we are losing out there aswell.

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

R117 quietly does life saving work most weeks if we lose it there will be deaths that otherwise would not have occurred. Flying in from Cork or Dublin does not cut it when you're sinking off Hook head.

115 - 150 km is the same as Slyne head to Shannon or Sligo.

Harry Palmr

What's the point of that fact in this thread?

BBM77

Harry Palmr wrote: »

R117 quietly does life saving work most weeks if we lose it there will be deaths that otherwise would not have occurred. Flying in from Cork or Dublin does not cut it when you're sinking off Hook head.

That never bothered the government when it comes to deciding on what services to have in Waterford.