Secondary School Application rejected.

inmyday

Sorry if its the wrong forum, maybe a mod will move this?

Anyway. I have a daughter in 4th class. Her mother and I tried to en roll her in a secondary school that is local and all girls, and non fee paying. She was rejected.
The reasons we were given are:

The student must be either

1. Sisters of current pupils
2. Pupils of a certain primary school, (wont name it obviously)
3. Daughters of current staff
4. Daughters of past pupils

I found these reasons ridiculous. Especially 3.
I thought that these were out dated, and had been changed by the department of education, obviously I was wrong.

In the letter I received it is explained "Your daughter's name is so far down on the waiting list for possible vacancies that it is clear that she will not be offered a place in this school unless one of the categories(the list above) becomes applicable."

I just want to hear other people's opinion. Should I just shut up and accept it. I was on Education.ie and it didnt really help me. Made me more confused actually.

Morag

Schools set their own policies and lists of criteria, where there is more demand then places then those who score the most on the list of criteria get the places. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about it and will have to find another school to try and list her with.

It may be that some people will drop off the list for enrollment in two years time but at least the school administration has been able to give you a heads up so you can try make other arrangements.

I know parents who move the child into a 'feeder' primary school to get them into the secondary school, but it is not always possible.

pwurple

I'm afraid it's the way it goes, especially with schools that are popular. We were told by friends that as soon as our daughter was born we needed to get her on those waiting lists. I went around and did it when she was 6 months old.

Enright

Have you considered moving her for her last year in NS to the "primary school"

January

I think I know the school you are talking about.

I'm afraid there's nothing you can do really, schools set up their own criteria for enrolment and as long as they are not discriminating based on:
Gender (obviously doesn't apply if it's a same sex school)
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age (does not apply to a person under 16)
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller community.

They are safe.

Have you not enrolled her for any other schools at all?

January

Enright wrote: »

Have you considered moving her for her last year in NS to the "primary school"

If the OP is talking about the school I'm thinking of, that wouldn't work because the feeder primary school is already way over subscribed (because of the fact that it's a feeder school to this secondary school) and offers for the secondary school are made when the pupil is in 4th class and not 6th class.

inmyday

Thanks for the replies guys.

@January. No I havent enrolled her in anywhere else. Bit worried about that now.
We thought about switching to the feeder school. But it would be a lot of hassle, and I havent asked my daughter what she would think of that. Would I really want to upset her and make her start again in a new school with friends etc?

@pwurple. I should have done what you did. I thought I was a smart as$ doing it when she was in senior infants. But I should have done it years before.

Charl0tte

This is rather worrying. I was never allowed to apply well in advance in the town I live in for my children, they had to be of a specific age in order for you to be able to apply. My son came home with invitations to local schools this year, and I've applied to one of them, out of two. I went outside the town (a couple of miles) to apply for another school for him, and I was given what I expected on that one - very local children come first. I'm so hesitant to apply for the other school in the town, because it has such a very bad reputation.

I don't have anything to add to help the original poster here, but it's been an eye opener in that they're applying for a child in 4th class, mine is in 5th

Orion

January wrote: »

as long as they are not discriminating based on:
Religion

Schools can discriminate on religious grounds - they have an exemption in the Equal Status Act (2000)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0008/sec0007.html#sec7
Section 7.3(c)

@OP: As others have said there are no set enrolment policies - every school sets its own. Once they follow their policy then you have no recourse I'm afraid.

spurious

There have been cases where these 'criteria' were challenged, but they involve court cases. I half remember a relatively recent case where the local school were using their 'brothers of current students' to keep a traveller child out.

It is the nonsense that is 'equal' access to education in Ireland.

January

Orion wrote: »

Schools can discriminate on religious grounds - they have an exemption in the Equal Status Act (2000)
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0008/sec0007.html#sec7
Section 7.3(c)

@OP: As others have said there are no set enrolment policies - every school sets its own. Once they follow their policy then you have no recourse I'm afraid.

Blah! Thank you, I knew I was forgetting another one with the gender one.

movingsucks

spurious wrote: »

There have been cases where these 'criteria' were challenged, but they involve court cases. I half remember a relatively recent case where the local school were using their 'brothers of current students' to keep a traveller child out.

It is the nonsense that is 'equal' access to education in Ireland.

I can understand giving preference to those with brothers attending the school (if infact they are current students), makes it easier on the parents and if they can't take all the children in the town then they have to discriminate/decide some how.
However in the case above there was also the "rule" of children of past pupils which I think is a bit silly.
My husband is not from Ireland, moved here as a child and he came up against this as well because he was the oldest in the family and his father would not have attended that school or any school in Ireland for that matter.

thesimpsons

spurious wrote: »

There have been cases where these 'criteria' were challenged, but they involve court cases. I half remember a relatively recent case where the local school were using their 'brothers of current students' to keep a traveller child out.

It is the nonsense that is 'equal' access to education in Ireland.

not sure that they used that criteria to "keep a traveller child out". I thought it was the case that the school was oversubscribed, other kids also lost out on places but that the traveller family was able to fight this case using discrimination whereas another family would not have had either the resources to take a case all the way to the high court, nor would they have had a case they could take as there wasn't really discrimination.

LittleBook

thesimpsons wrote: »

not sure that they used that criteria to "keep a traveller child out". I thought it was the case that the school was oversubscribed, other kids also lost out on places but that the traveller family was able to fight this case using discrimination whereas another family would not have had either the resources to take a case all the way to the high court, nor would they have had a case they could take as there wasn't really discrimination.

Exactly what happened.

School Not Biased Against Travellers, Court Finds

IT Article wrote:

[The child] had applied in November 2009 to attend the CBS High School, having attended a local primary school in Clonmel, but there were 174 applications for 140 available places, the school said.

The school said it selected students on the basis of its admissions policy which was based on three criteria: that the child’s father or an older sibling had attended the school, that the child was Catholic and that he had attended a local primary school.

John met the last two criteria but, as he was the oldest in his family and his father had not attended the school, he was not admitted

bbam

It's interesting, maybe different for secondary.
My wife was in ye board of our NS for a few years. Another local school was refusing students based on a whim, mostly as the principal thought they weren't locals.
Anyway our principal was telling my wife that if the parents pushed enough the child couldn't be rejected by the school. but that most parents are just put off and accept it.

byhookorbycrook

If the school is oversubscribed, it cannot be forced to take a child.

Equality

One way to deal with this is to cease funding the organisation responsible for the running of the school in question.

angelfire9

Our eldest is in 6th class and applying for secondary schools now
The school she wants to go to has the pretty much same criteria as the OP's
150 places allocated as follows
1) Sisters of current pupils
2) Daughters of current teachers
3) Daughters of past pupils
If they fill 100 places using those criteria the last 50 places are allocated by lottery and you are written out to and informed of your lottery number and the lottery is held at the school and all "lottery ticket holders" are invited to attend the lottery to ensure that everything is above board and no discrimination is taking part
I think this is a fairly good system
Of course maybe i'm biased as our daughter falls under Category 3 (as it is my old secondary school)

We have also applied (just in case) to the secondary school attached to her current primary school (run by the same order)
Pretty much all kids in the primary are guaranteed a place in the secondary but she has no interest in going but we need a fall back in case option 1 falls through by some fluke

The criteria for the other school is as follows:

1. Applicants with brother(s)/sister(s) in the school (current and/or in the past). The term brother/sister applies when there is a least one parent in common or the process of legal adoption has been completed.
2. Applicants from *** Primary. Pupils in this category must have been enrolled in the ***** primary for at least 3 years prior to the date of admission to the school. The only exception to this requirement is in the case of applicants who by virtue of a change of domicile necessitated a change
of school during that 3 year period.
3. All other applicants.
Where there are excess applications for places - a lottery is held in the relevant categories. The lottery draw for places, if applicable, is undertaken by a representative of the Board of Management and an independent external person nominated by the Board. As demand for places normally exceeds places offered it is advisable to apply to more than one school. The school operates a drawn lottery waiting list as part of the admissions process. Applicants drawn on this list will be notified and have a chance of a
place if a successful applicant does not accept their place. The waiting list is for the duration of the admissions process only.