Fellow trainee earning more?!

Jonny Drama

Hey,

A friend of mine is working for a Big 4 Finance Co.

He's 1 year into a 3 year programme. He's earning 17,500 per annum, no increase at all since day 1.

Yesterday he said he was talking to a fellow trainee, a trainee who has only been in the company for 3 months, and the other trainee said he is making 21,000 per annum! My friend was quite taken aback by this, but he didn't query it at the time, nor did he say what he was earning himself.

Do ye think this is possible with such a gap in their wages when the 2 of them are trainees? Or I wonder is the other trainee just talking up his wages?!

What can my mate do to find out if this is true? And if it IS true, what does he do? Surely it's wrong for 2 trainees in the same company to be on different ,oney, especially when the newer trainee is on more money!

Thanks

Victor

The other person may be more qualified, more experienced, be a better negotiator or have other income. They may also be related to a partner in the firm.

Alternatively, the may have demonstrated a skill and been rewarded for it.

Jonny Drama

Victor wrote: »

The other person may be more qualified, more experienced, be a better negotiator or have other income. They may also be related to a partner in the firm.

Alternatively, the may have demonstrated a skill and been rewarded for it.

My mate is 25, has more qualifications, the other lad is only 22 and only finished college in June so doubt he's more qualified/experienced. He's quite possibly a better negotiator alright, but he was on the 21,000 since day 1 so they wouldn't be aware of his negotiation skills at that stage. Thanks for the reply.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Jonny Drama wrote: »

A friend of mine is working for a Big 4 Finance Co.

If by big 4 finance company you mean financial services/accounting then the standard starting salary for trainees is somewhere between 21-23K depending on a few things

That said depending on a few things someone on 21K could well be getting 17.5K take home pay

Maybe its confusion one is talking gross pay and the other net

Sappa

Jonny Drama wrote: »

My mate is 25, has more qualifications, the other lad is only 22 and only finished college in June so doubt he's more qualified/experienced. He's quite possibly a better negotiator alright, but he was on the 21,000 since day 1 so they wouldn't be aware of his negotiation skills at that stage. Thanks for the reply.

Having worked in one of these companies and finished my accounting training with them I can tell you that either this guy is talking out his backside with a higher salary or might just be related to someone in management.
Either way it would be highly unprofessional of your friend to complain about this matter as he will come out looking like a tit if this guy who mostly likely is lying or he will ruffle the wrong feathers and create sour grapes with his manager.
It's a traineeship and they know this hence why they worked us so hard and paid us pittens even during the boom.
Tell him to suck it up and focus on qualifying then he can negotiate a new job.

Jonny Drama

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If by big 4 finance company you mean financial services/accounting then the standard starting salary for trainees is somewhere between 21-23K depending on a few things

That said depending on a few things someone on 21K could well be getting 17.5K take home pay

Maybe its confusion one is talking gross pay and the other net

No he's only making 17,500 gross pay, he's not paying any tax really, only a few euro. The other fella says he is paying 200 euro tax a month on his 21,500.

Jonny Drama

Sappa wrote: »

Having worked in one of these companies and finished my accounting training with them I can tell you that either this guy is talking out his backside with a higher salary or might just be related to someone in management.
Either way it would be highly unprofessional of your friend to complain about this matter as he will come out looking like a tit if this guy who mostly likely is lying or he will ruffle the wrong feathers and create sour grapes with his manager.
It's a traineeship and they know this hence why they worked us so hard and paid us pittens even during the boom.
Tell him to suck it up and focus on qualifying then he can negotiate a new job.

He won't complain because he knows it'll look bad, but he's going to try and find out discreetly if the other guy is telling the truth, but he's not sure how to do this. The last thing he wants to do is piss off his boss.

Gloomtastic!

No. 1 rule of work. Never discuss salary details with colleagues. Did they not teach you that in college?

Jonny Drama

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

No. 1 rule of work. Never discuss salary details with colleagues. Did they not teach you that in college?

I agree..

rgmmg

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

No. 1 rule of work. Never discuss salary details with colleagues. Did they not teach you that in college?

That's what THEY want you to do

Mrs OBumble

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

No. 1 rule of work. Never discuss salary details with colleagues. Did they not teach you that in college?

I disagree.

Number one rule of work: look to build assistance and information-sharing alliances with fellow employees who you can trust.

Overall, you will all do better if you work together and pool information about terms and conditions, and if you support each other.

Procrastastudy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I disagree.

Number one rule of work: look to build assistance and information-sharing alliances with fellow employees who you can trust.

Overall, you will all do better if you work together and pool information about terms and conditions, and if you support each other.

If only! While I agree in an ideal world this is the best thing to do; discussing your salary, especially with someone who eventually lets it get out on to a public forum is ill advised.

Mrs OBumble

Procrastastudy wrote: »

If only! While I agree in an ideal world this is the best thing to do; discussing your salary, especially with someone who eventually lets it get out on to a public forum is ill advised.

Because????

collegeme

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because????

Exactly....has the op named the individual? No

Jonny Drama

Procrastastudy wrote: »

If only! While I agree in an ideal world this is the best thing to do; discussing your salary, especially with someone who eventually lets it get out on to a public forum is ill advised.

I only let the salary out in a public forum, and it's not rocket science that trainees are on about 17.5k in this country!!!

I didn't name the individual, the company, the job itself or the area where he works!

The Big Red Button

None of the Big Four firms pay trainees that little. Even placement students get paid more than that.

Your friend should speak to those who started at the same time as him. He should be on the same salary as them.

It's nothing to do with negotiation skills - it's the same salary for everyone (slightly higher for Masters students, which your friend probably is, as it's a 3 year contract as opposed to 3.5 years.)

bbam

Jonny Drama wrote: »

Hey,

A friend of mine is working for a Big 4 Finance Co.

He's 1 year into a 3 year programme. He's earning 17,500 per annum, no increase at all since day 1.

Yesterday he said he was talking to a fellow trainee, a trainee who has only been in the company for 3 months, and the other trainee said he is making 21,000 per annum! My friend was quite taken aback by this, but he didn't query it at the time, nor did he say what he was earning himself.

Do ye think this is possible with such a gap in their wages when the 2 of them are trainees? Or I wonder is the other trainee just talking up his wages?!

What can my mate do to find out if this is true? And if it IS true, what does he do? Surely it's wrong for 2 trainees in the same company to be on different ,oney, especially when the newer trainee is on more money!

Thanks

Firstly he needs to mind his own business.. if he feels he deserves more money, fine but he needs to get it on his own, not just go looking for more because someone else i making more money...
Secondly where I worked in the past it wasn't unusual to see similar employees earning hugely different salaries, I've managed lads where €20k of a difference was in place, employees using this as an case for a salary increase got little hearing..

Procrastastudy

collegeme wrote: »

Exactly....has the op named the individual? No

Jonny Drama wrote: »

I only let the salary out in a public forum, and it's not rocket science that trainees are on about 17.5k in this country!!!

I didn't name the individual, the company, the job itself or the area where he works!

If someone from any of the four companies is on here it wont take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together and work out people are talking about salaries. They might even get it wrong. That said looks like your mate is on an unusually low salary making it even easier to work out who it was.

Even if they can't work out who it is they still know people are discussing salaries - I don't know about big financial firms but any company I've worked for would expect a better level of discretion. Add to that it looks like that person will soon be going to his/her boss for a chat about how much they are being paid...

@Mrs O'Bumble - I might be of the old school on this one but its one thing to work together for better conditions and even pay rates in certain jobs paid by the hour/shift but professionals should be able to negotiate their own salary based on their individual circumstances and ability - that's undermined by then going and blurting it out to people - especially people who then go and post that information on the internet.

Mrs OBumble

Procrastastudy wrote: »

@Mrs O'Bumble - I might be of the old school on this one but its one thing to work together for better conditions and even pay rates in certain jobs paid by the hour/shift but professionals should be able to negotiate their own salary based on their individual circumstances and ability - that's undermined by then going and blurting it out to people - especially people who then go and post that information on the internet.

I think you'll find there are plenty of professionals (nurses, doctors, teachers, guards) who don't negotiate their own salaries.

And unless their professional skills include industrial relations and negotiation, many are not at all well placed to do so.

What's more, economic theory is clear that markets require perfect information to work properly. In the labour market, the information imbalance is profound: employers know what everyone in their company is paid, and subscribe to services to get salary-survey information about other companies. Employees, OTOH, have virtually no information - and this actually stops the market from working well.

Procrastastudy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I think you'll find there are plenty of professionals (nurses, doctors, teachers, guards) who don't negotiate their own salaries.

And unless their professional skills include industrial relations and negotiation, many are not at all well placed to do so.

What's more, economic theory is clear that markets require perfect information to work properly. In the labour market, the information imbalance is profound: employers know what everyone in their company is paid, and subscribe to services to get salary-survey information about other companies. Employees, OTOH, have virtually no information - and this actually stops the market from working well.

While I'm very in favour unionisation it isn't available to all. I would submit that the professions listed do negotiate their pay through the unions.

In the case of the OP financial works that dont have negotiation skills probably only command the salary they get.

Jonny Drama

bbam wrote: »

Firstly he needs to mind his own business.. if he feels he deserves more money, fine but he needs to get it on his own, not just go looking for more because someone else i making more money...
Secondly where I worked in the past it wasn't unusual to see similar employees earning hugely different salaries, I've managed lads where €20k of a difference was in place, employees using this as an case for a salary increase got little hearing..

He WAS minding his own business, his colleague freely told him his salary, my mate didn't ask him, nor did he bring it up!!!!!

He's not going to go looking for more.. He was just taken back a bit when he heard a fellow trainee, a trainee who is only in the door, is making more than him, 4k more!

LegacyUser

I think it's in the employers interest to be fair to a degree. I am a softie when it comes to negotiating my salary. But, this does not mean that I am not extremely capable and employable.
I too am facing the situation of an employee getting a pay rise to earn more than me when they are less experienced than me(which they admitted). Therefore, I have decided to look elsewhere as I feel exploited to a degree. Their loss ( and I know they will feel it) but they just can't expect people to work for unfair pay.

Procrastastudy

yayayada wrote: »

I think it's in the employers interest to be fair to a degree. I am a softie when it comes to negotiating my salary. But, this does not mean that I am not extremely capable and employable.
I too am facing the situation of an employee getting a pay rise to earn more than me when they are less experienced than me(which they admitted). Therefore, I have decided to look elsewhere as I feel exploited to a degree. Their loss ( and I know they will feel it) but they just can't expect people to work for unfair pay.

Err... this is negotiating tactics 101. You're just being daft in not letting your employer know you're doing it.

collegeme

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Err... this is negotiating tactics 101. You're just being daft in not letting your employer know you're doing it.

But is it not ideal to have a better job offer rather than "im off to find a better job offer" ?

Procrastastudy

collegeme wrote: »

But is it not ideal to have a better job offer rather than "im off to find a better job offer" ?

Its all in the delivery. A CV to a printer here the odd hint dropped there. It also depends on how valued you really are. Before my falling out with my previous employer all I would have needed to do was say I was thinking of leaving and something would have been forthcoming - there is obviously only so much you can get away with of course.

Fact of the matter is its sometime better to be upfront without delivering ultimatums and it also depends on the job. You wouldn't expect an engineer to have the same negotiation skills as a solicitor for example. That said if that engineer was involved in procurement...