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DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

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  • Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭tomred1N


    scriba wrote: »
    It's rotten alright. I'm haunted, put yesterday off till today, and got it done this afternoon when I was off. I ran into a walk of wind down the marina, but infinitely better to this old p!ss.

    Ya i thought around 2 o clock it might be ok this evening. i can handle rain , dont care about cold, hate wind but when its all 3 together i just cant enjoy it. i feel like i have not run without fooking wind in months . Im away with work from next weekend so have a lot of long runs to squueze in and this is not helping.....should have scheduled recovery week this week




    from it


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Bit of a disastrous LSR for me yesterday - had nothing left after 22 km and just stopped. I felt weird, completely empty. I suppose it's the result of two strenuous recent races (5k on Sat, HM the week before) and careless nutrition (a bowl of porridge probably isn't enough for 30k). Have a bit of a sore knee too but I don't think that's it. Having pulled up, I walked a little and then made a couple of attempts to start up again but it just wasn't happening and after a couple of efforts I started to get cold, so I sheepishly hailed a cab and headed home. :o

    Hopefully the mojo will return during the week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭New runner


    murphd77 wrote: »
    Bit of a disastrous LSR for me yesterday - had nothing left after 22 km and just stopped. I felt weird, completely empty. I suppose it's the result of two strenuous recent races (5k on Sat, HM the week before) and careless nutrition (a bowl of porridge probably isn't enough for 30k). Have a bit of a sore knee too but I don't think that's it. Having pulled up, I walked a little and then made a couple of attempts to start up again but it just wasn't happening and after a couple of efforts I started to get cold, so I sheepishly hailed a cab and headed home. :o

    Hopefully the mojo will return during the week.

    Hi don't beat urself up , no way I'd even consider doing a LSR after a race, though its a 5k u push urself to max compared to a longer race, a few very slow miles wud b enuf IMO ( for what it's worth!) after a race! Take it easy for day or 2, hopefully your knee b ok too!


  • Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭KillianByrne


    I havent found that 100% commitment I was looking for! no LSR done again.

    6m yesterday and felt ok so things improving. the run in to Limerick isnt good for me with Kids Birthday parties, a mini rugby blitz, Great Ireland Run and then away for a week with work.

    I've done 2 poor 20's but want to get 1 more in before race day and realistically this is the weekend to do it. I may do 20m LSR on Sat & take the GIR as a recovery run. Ha, that'll be fun!

    I've been reading over my recent posts - what a f***ing moaner! sorry everyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭docjewel


    If its any consolation to any ye stuggling with runs at the moment I struggled big time with just a 15m LSR on Sunday.
    Looking back at most of us,we have a fairly decent amount of mileage put up over the last few weeks,ran some super races and all while the weather has been pretty sh^*e.
    Recently we've had a little glimpse of sunshine & then its just f'ing disappeared again,its like being offered sweets while a little child & then to have it taken away again.

    There's no point in any of us worrying about missed runs too much, we really can't do too much about it but the important thing is that we give as close to 100% as we can to any remaining runs we do and (this is the hard part) look at the positives at the runs we have done & compare where we are now with this time last year


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ncmc


    I havent found that 100% commitment I was looking for! no LSR done again.

    6m yesterday and felt ok so things improving. the run in to Limerick isnt good for me with Kids Birthday parties, a mini rugby blitz, Great Ireland Run and then away for a week with work.

    I've done 2 poor 20's but want to get 1 more in before race day and realistically this is the weekend to do it. I may do 20m LSR on Sat & take the GIR as a recovery run. Ha, that'll be fun!

    I've been reading over my recent posts - what a f***ing moaner! sorry everyone.
    You’re definitely not alone Killian, if you read through this thread or some of our training logs, I think more than a few of us are struggling with motivation at the moment. So you’re definitely not a moaner (well if you are, that makes me a super moaner!) As Docjewel says, the weather isn’t helping and also we all have a lot of miles under our belt already this year, I’m sure all the legs are a bit fatigued.

    Try and look at the positives; you only have four weeks to go, and only one really tough LSR before taper, you are so close to your goal! Also, you already have two 20 mile LSR’s done, I bet you didn’t have that done before DCM! I know you say they were tough, but 20 miles is always going to be tough. If I were you, I would concentrate on getting a really good 20 mile LSR this weekend, do whatever you can to ensure it goes well; get plenty of sleep, a big feed of pasta the night before etc. I think it’s going to be more beneficial to your confidence to get a successful 20 miles done rather than a good time in the GIR, so if it were me, the LSR would be my priority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭KillianByrne


    Thanks for the encouragement folks, it does help to have a vent to release steam every now and again, like minded posters can sympathise with the issues all of us are having.

    Anyway, onwards and upwards, 10m done earlier at a fairly comfortable 9.25 pace, another one in the bag.


  • Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭DOCO12


    Allot of disheartened people around here and I have to say Id prob be the same, it happens us all that we get demotivated, tired from all the training, wana go on the tear, get pissed off with the weather it's only natural. You all have been doing serious mileage and sometimes we all just need a break whether that be skipping a few runs, going out or even just sitting in front of the TV. I know the big motivator for me signing up for DCM last year was Id a few weeks of complete overindulgence and laziness, felt so rotten afterwards that I needed a goal race to get me going!
    Don't beat yourself up over it. Give yourself a pat on the back and once ya get back into it there will be no turning back, remember your goal races are getting closer and closer and how sweet it will be to cross that finish line and know you gave it 100% :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ncmc


    coalshed wrote: »
    3'37.

    A tough day at the office.

    I'll add more detail when im not surrounded by alcohol!
    Are you still quaffing that cheap French wine or what?

    Race report please :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭blockic


    ncmc wrote: »
    Are you still quaffing that cheap French wine or what?

    Race report please :pac:

    Great minds...I have just said as much over in the Paris Marathon thread :pac:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭coalshed


    ncmc wrote: »
    Are you still quaffing that cheap French wine or what?

    Race report please :pac:

    Sorry, my laptop is out of action and I'd rather run a marathon in flipflops than try to type up a race report on an ipad or phone so I'm trying to do it during lunchtime in work.

    J'arrive!


  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭coalshed


    Race Report: Paris Marathon, 7th April 2013

    Summary
    A very well organised race in perfect weather conditions around a nice course.

    My target for my second marathon was an 8 minute per mile pace to achieve a 3:30 marathon. This pace proved not to be sustainable, resulting in a difficult final 8/9 miles and a 3:37:36 time - a 9 minute pb and some lessons learned.

    Pros
    • A beautiful place to run - if you have the energy to enjoy the scenery.
    • Race organisation very good and mostly copes with the 39k runners.
    • Plenty of crowd support and music.
    • This is a mega-marathon with 39k runners and all the humanity that comes with those numbers.

    Cons
    • This is a mega marathon with 39k runners. You'll never be more than 7 feet from someone taking a piss.
    • With the numbers involved the going is busy (but moving) almost all the time.
    • Water stations are only on one side of the road so they can be hectic, in spite of their length and the range of fruit etc. on offer.

    Top Tip
    Your GPS will lose signal in the tunnels so make sure to wear a pace band.

    Race Report

    The day before
    I flew out to Paris with a friend on Saturday, the day before the race.
    The plan was to head straight to the expo to register and get our bibs. We would also meet the other 3 members of our party there before heading for some lunch.

    The plane had plenty of runners on it so we hooked up with a pair who were also heading to the expo and shared a taxi. This saved our energy and cost €50 euro between the four of us.

    The expo itself was very efficient. I had expected it to be mental on the Saturday afternoon but we could have been in and out in about 10 minutes if we hadn't lingered at some of the displays. We didn't hang around long though as the others were already having lunch and we were conscious of not walking around too much.
    We stayed in the Citadines Aparthotel in Les Halles. At €200 between 3 of us this covered all our requirements nicely and offered a late check out (which we didn't avail of) There was a good deal of noise during the night which didn't help with the sleeping but who sleeps well the night before a marathon?
    Lunch was melon and parma ham followed by a big bowl of pasta near the hotel. The afternoon was spent drinking water in a pub watching rugby and the grand national. Next time I travel for a marathon I'll plan on bringing a dvd so that we can really chill out and minimise on the up-time during the day.

    Dinner was a pizza, some ice cream and a single glass of wine to help with sleep. (It didn't)

    We investigated our metro route for the morning and spent the evening organising our gear and deliberating over what to wear. It had been a very chilly day in Paris but race day was forecast to be cool but sunny. (The weather ended up being perfect - sunny, cool, no wind.)

    Race day
    We got up at 6 (5am Irish time) and got dressed and had breakfast in our room. It was great to have small kitchen facilities to heat porridge etc.

    The metro journey went smoothly, although there were thousands of folks trying to exit the Charles de Galle Etoile station so that that took a few minutes of shuffling through a packed tunnel.
    From there it was about a mile walk to the bag drop. We had checked out of the hotel so we had all our gear to deposit. Bag drop was super efficient and only took seconds.

    So, we're standing about 500 meters from the Arc de Triomphe at the start of a bright sunny day. There's plenty of excitement as people make their final preparations. And jaysus, there were people pissing everywhere, it was like 40 thousand people had been struck down with collective incontinence. This was to be a theme for the day...there was always someone taking a piss! Soon we were heading off to the start area.

    As it turns out we were running a bit late and the street was at a standstill with runners trying to get into their coralls. We jogged around the block and said goodbye to the lads who were going to the 3:45 zone while myself and my buddy were going for the 3:30 area.

    We squeezed into the start zone after having our bibs individually inspected to ensure we were in the right area, which was a pretty cool move on the organiser's part, methinks.

    The start was a non-event. Think blaring commentary in French, noisy music and the tinkle of wee-wees from the crowd. Soon enough the left hand side of the street- where we were- started to move out while the folks on the right did not.
    I wasn't aware that this was going to happen and we ended up passing the start gate without the pacers. Not a problem really as we were running together and had our watches set up to mark the pace.

    Our target was 3:30 so our pace was to be 8 minutes per mile or 4:59 per km.

    The going was great I must say. In spite of the hugh crowds everyone was running on pace so there wasn't too much skipping around or too many of the lets-run-four-abrest-slowly merchants we all love.

    The kilometers and miles were ticking by and we were generally on time at each one. It was the early stages of the race so we were settling in, checking out the people around us and generally getting things underway. I was feeling happy enough and started taking energy sweets and gels on board early enough to keep the energy levels topped up. I wasn't carrying water so I was picking it up at the water stations, which were fairly hectic.

    First half splits were as follows (expected time | actual time)
    5km 24:53 | 24:52
    10km 49:46 | 49:55
    15km 1:14:39 |1:15:04
    21.1 km 1:44:30 | 1:45:49

    So, were were generally on track up to half way, but I also knew at that point that I wasn't feeling as fresh as I normally would after 13 miles. I felt fine, but not as brimming with energy as I would have liked.

    At this time I also lost my buddy who had slipped ahead when I stalled to grab a drink at one of the water stations. I had a sense that he was feeling stronger than me so I wasn't too upset to lose site of him. (We had agreed that we'd push on or drop off as desired without any issues.)

    From here my legs very gradually started to get heavier and I knew I was slipping off pace.
    Things weren't falling apart and I decided not to force a catch-up as it was still very early in the race and I didn't want to make matters worse by expending more energy with so much ground still to cover.

    Splits (expected | actual)
    25km 2:04:25 | 2:05:32
    30km 2:29:18 | 2:31:43

    The slow-down continued and my mental state started to slip as well. I wasn't enjoying the race so much anymore and the fact that the course offers a grand tour of such a wonderful city didn't figure much. The Eifel Tower could go **** itself and so could marathon running for that matter were among the thoughts that crossed my mind at this time :)

    It was increasingly clear after 30k that I wasn't going to be able to pick things up and regain any ground. 3'30 was gone and with so far still to go I didn't know what the future held. By this stage the walkers started appearing at the side of the course with their heads bowed and their vision for the day shattered. There were folks with cramps trying to get their legs going again. There were, obviously, lots of people pissing. I didn't want to join them but wasn't entirely sure I'd be able to avoid their fate.

    My legs were getting stiffer with each passing mile and the tunnels along the Seine killed the GPS signal so my Virtual Pacer was out the window. I was glad to have a pace band on so I could still use the kilometer markers to judge where I stood. Still, in the fog of tiredness I mistakenly read 34km for 35 and for a brief moment thought that I was right back on track, only to realise I was now a full kilometer behind where I should have been. Merde.

    35km Expected: 2:54:11 | Actual: 2:58:02

    Things weren't all bad though. The miles were passing - slowly - and many others seemed to be in the same amount of discomfort that I was...in fact the whole race seemed to be grinding to a halt :)

    I made efforts to keep my pace up as much as possible as I knew I had a nice PB in the bag if I could just hold things together, but that with each slip in pace I was eroding the size of that gain.

    (I later learned that I was in fact gaining places in the overall race standing during these latter stages. I had been in and around the 10k mark throughout but ended up passing nearly 1500 people over the final few miles.)

    In addition, there were lots of bands and surprisingly good support throughout the course. The race has a really international feel with runners from Ireland, England, Spain, Brazil and many other locations around the world making their presence felt. There was even a little brazillian dude running barefoot - he looked like maradonna from behind (yes, I was behind him) and the crowd loved him.

    We also passed groups of soldiers in uniform, and several sets of firemen, one group having extended their ladder out over the road...all very impressive.

    Soon we entered the final section of the race, the Bois de Boulogne a large forested park on the outskirts of the city. It was actually nice to be away from the crowds here and just grind out the remaining miles in relative silence. Things hadn't improved energy-wise and I was willing the race to end by this stage. A few punters hopped onto the course to see what it was like to 'run a marathon'. There's nothing like a jaunty dude springing past with a pram to complete your day. This marathon runner was not amused! Anyway, I kept going and eventually we exited the park for the final few hundred meters to the finish.

    I raised my pace a little but I'm afraid I didn't savour the home stretch or take in the crowds, I was just glad to finish, feeling so relieved to finally stop.

    My garmin read 3:37:42, with my official chip time coming in at 3:37:36.

    I was a little overwhelmed at the finish, a combination of being tired and pleased with my time and frustrated that I had found the race so tough, particularly in contract to DCM12 which I had found to be a relative breeze.

    The sun was shining as I picked up my medals, and t-shirts. I sat down for a while to take in the atmosphere before shuffling up to the Arc to meet with the others.

    The rest of the day was immense fun. Four out of five of our group achieved Pbs, we had a great lunch with lots of booze followed by a great dinner with more booze and plenty of laughs! Oh, and my running partner....he came in with 3:37 as well...so it turns out he wasn't so far ahead of me after all!

    Analysis
    I guess I just didn't put in the miles, or the right kind of miles, in the lead up to the race.

    As a result I burnt myself out by trying to stick to a pace that I wasn't going to be able to sustain.

    On the day I should have kept an eye on my heart rate--- if I knew more about these things I'd have realised I was expending too much energy.

    I did six great weeks of a 12 week plan and let the remaining six weeks slide a little. I'll do the maths but suspect I did about 70% of the mileage P&D suggest for the 12 week 55 mile plan and crucially I missed some of the long runs.

    Perhaps I just set my sights too high and 3:35 would have been more realistic and less likely to blow me up. I'm not going to complain as I completed my second marathon, achieved a good time, and managed to run 26 miles in need of a piss.

    So, the key take away for me is that SLACKERS WILL BE FOUND OUT. Marathon will know if you haven't done the miles or if you are overreaching. Marathon will know and it will not stand for it!

    - FIN -


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Thanks for the report coalshed - it was a great read. :)

    Congratulations on the PB


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭overpronator


    Great report Coalshed and congrats on the PB, would love to give one of the proper big city marathons a go. My goals for Limerick time wise are quite similar to yours, haven't fully settled on a goal time but I think about 3.35 give or take is what im capable of. Did you do a half or any other races in the run up to this and how did they go for you? Cheers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭statss


    Well done on the time. That made for a great read. I love the last two sentences, quality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,852 ✭✭✭ncmc


    ^^^ Now that’s a race report! Worth waiting for!
    I really could feel your pain in those last few miles Coalshed, it is interesting what you said about over-reaching with your pace, that is a massive concern of mine. Sounds like you had a great day all in all though, the aches and pains and bad memories will fade and I bet when you look back you will realise what a great experience it was.
    Congrats again on the PB and a really good time, you were pretty close to your target really, so don’t beat yourself up about it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭coalshed


    Thanks for the report coalshed - it was a great read. :)

    Congratulations on the PB

    Thank you sir.
    Great report Coalshed and congrats on the PB, would love to give one of the proper big city marathons a go. My goals for Limerick time wise are quite similar to yours, haven't fully settled on a goal time but I think about 3.35 give or take is what im capable of. Did you do a half or any other races in the run up to this and how did they go for you? Cheers

    I did the Meath half in Bohermeen in 1:36:01 I think...so that went well enough...I was supposed to do a 20 miler that day though instead of a 13 mile race...so maybe that's when I started laying the seeds of trouble for myself...
    statss wrote: »
    Well done on the time. That made for a great read. I love the last two sentences, quality.

    Thanks Statss. Marathon is a lurker on these boards :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Cheers, coalshed, great time under the circumstances and, even more importantly, a great report :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭blockic


    ncmc wrote: »
    ^^^ Now that’s a race report! Worth waiting for!

    +1 A super report coalshed, and a great race considering. It is still a great PB at the end of the day. Really gets me in the mood now. Great analysis also at the end. I'll be taking a few of your tips and learnings with me on Saturday!


  • Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭docjewel


    Brilliant report coalshed,great read, & well done on the PB:).

    I think there are a few things in that report we all could learn from.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭overpronator


    coalshed wrote: »


    I did the Meath half in Bohermeen in 1:36:01 I think...so that went well enough...I was supposed to do a 20 miler that day though instead of a 13 mile race...so maybe that's when I started laying the seeds of trouble for myself...



    I did it in 1.36 myself so that makes your report all the more relevant to me! Ive managed to get a decent amount long runs in though 1x18, 3x 20 and a 22. Ill do one more 18 this weekend. How many long runs did you get to do in your training? Sorry to be suce a bore with the questions but I'm really conscious of going out too fast and blowing up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭coalshed


    ncmc wrote: »
    ^^^ Now that’s a race report! Worth waiting for!
    I really could feel your pain in those last few miles Coalshed, it is interesting what you said about over-reaching with your pace, that is a massive concern of mine. Sounds like you had a great day all in all though, the aches and pains and bad memories will fade and I bet when you look back you will realise what a great experience it was.
    Congrats again on the PB and a really good time, you were pretty close to your target really, so don’t beat yourself up about it!

    Thanks Ncmc. It was a great experience. I got to enjoy a weekend away and the fitness to run 26 miles faster than the last time. That's all win in my book.

    Picking a target time is tough. Anyone got any tips?


  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭coalshed


    I did it in 1.36 myself so that makes your report all the more relevant to me! Ive managed to get a decent amount long runs in though 1x18, 3x 20 and a 22. Ill do one more 18 this weekend. How many long runs did you get to do in your training? Sorry to be suce a bore with the questions but I'm really conscious of going out too fast and blowing up!

    You're streets ahead of me for long runs.

    I did 17, 16, 18, 21 and 16 mile runs...and I think that that's where I fell down. I reckon I needed to do the longer runs that I missed, as well as more work at PMP - that I also missed - in order to have the endurance to carry the pace for the distance.

    It sounds to me like you are really well lined up for Limerick Overpronator, and your 18 miler is coming just in time for taper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    coalshed wrote: »
    Picking a target time is tough. Anyone got any tips?

    Well I think you may have nailed it yourself when you admitted you missed part of the second half of the programme. I would guess that would make it more difficult to project a time from your recent HM time, especially on a 12 week programme.

    Or it could well be that you should have taken that piss! :eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭coalshed


    blockic wrote: »
    +1 A super report coalshed, and a great race considering. It is still a great PB at the end of the day. Really gets me in the mood now. Great analysis also at the end. I'll be taking a few of your tips and learnings with me on Saturday!

    No doubt you'll smash it on Saturday...I believe the weather is hotting up for the race.
    docjewel wrote: »
    Brilliant report coalshed,great read, & well done on the PB:).

    I think there are a few things in that report we all could learn from.

    Thanks. Hopefully I learn from them for next time!
    murphd77 wrote: »
    Well I think you may have nailed it yourself when you admitted you missed part of the second half of the programme. I would guess that would make it more difficult to project a time from your recent HM time, especially on a 12 week programme.

    Or it could well be that you should have taken that piss! :eek:

    Yes, perhaps 3:30 would have been on the cards if I had stuck with the programme. That's the pisser of having put in a good deal of work but not enough. Sometimes the hard way is the only way to learn these things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭career_move


    Great report coalshed. Really enjoyed reading it. I thought you were a shoe in for a sub 3:30 after Waterford...you were so strong down there. I didn't get the impression from the race report that you 'blew up' really badly. I wonder if you had kept with your mate would ye have encouraged each other on better?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,724 ✭✭✭Dilbert75


    Great report Coalshed - at least you still have a target to achieve!

    On another note, could ye Corkonians not have held onto your bloody rain for another couple of hours? 16k to do now and it started milling rain before 4pm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Class report and well done on the PB.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭Gavlor


    Brilliant report!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭tang1


    Fantastic report coalshed, well done on your PB.


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