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DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step
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Cheers for the link. I'm aiming to follow the 18week 55mile program. Its a huge step up from the mileage I did for Dublin so hope I can follow it. I see it has me clocking 40 and 42miles during Xmas, could be interesting :rolleyes: Did you do much mileage for Dublin?
Luckily Paris coincides with my work holidays so we're making a proper break of it, going from Thurs until Mon. This is why I chose it over Rotterdam, Rotterdam was going to be hard to get the time off work. So plan now is, sightseeing Friday, rest Sat, run and hopefully celebrate Sun and home Mon
Be careful with the programme for now. If you read the book (I advise everyone to read the book, not just follow the programme as without the knowledge of why and how to do the runs prescribed the programme itself is pointless) it states clearly that you should be regulalrly used to running 30-40 miles per week, before starting the programme lowest mileage plan (33-55 mpw).
If you don't have this base and jump straight into the programme you will almost certainly end up injured. The prurpose of my (our) plan is to build your base up to such a point hat you would be able to tackle a P&D style programme safely come February/March next year.
I would advise to stick to our programme until the end of January and then maybe follow the 12 week P&D programme for Paris....0 -
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Thanks Meno, Ill have a search for that plan. Can't wait to see the postman coming with my new book in the post
Easy miles sound good but its def hard to pull yourself back.
Theres one or two shorter races I'd like to go for in the next few weeks, have the option of a 5miler this weekend or a 10k Sun week, too soon perhaps? Have a slight niggle in my knee and am a but weary of this, resting this evening.0 -
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Fantastic I love slow. And hate to blow my own trumpet but.....i'm really good at it tooYes it definitely has a 12 week plan up to a max 55 mpw.
I think it offers a 12 and 18 week plan (not a 24 week plan) for 4 different max milages (55, 70, 85 and 100+ MPW). My Plan will be similar to a P&D plan most weeks (3 easy runs, 1 'session' and a long run) so it will gear you up nicely for the plan. As Micilin Muc says it is not actually a tough plan if you do it right as 3-4 of the runs each week have to be done 'easy'. Easy being very slow probably much slower than most of you are used to (yes I am sorry that I sound like a broken record :pac:). 0 -
oh god, oh so cold, wet and miserable out there......:( If wasn't for this thread I'd have stayed curled up on the sofa all evening and claimed i needed more 'recovery time' after the marathon..... Nothing like having to fill in a chart to get your off your backside
Fingers crossed Waterford on 1st Dec be like Sunday morning and not tonight!!0 -
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Yes it definitely has a 12 week plan up to a max 55 mpw.
I think it offers a 12 and 18 week plan (not a 24 week plan) for 4 different max milages (55, 70, 85 and 100+ MPW). My Plan will be similar to a P&D plan most weeks (3 easy runs, 1 'session' and a long run) so it will gear you up nicely for the plan. As Micilin Muc says it is not actually a tough plan if you do it right as 3-4 of the runs each week have to be done 'easy'. Easy being very slow probably much slower than most of you are used to (yes I am sorry that I sound like a broken record :pac:).
P & D book is brilliant. I followed their 18 week plan (max mileage 55 miles) for DCM this year, and made (what I thought were!) great improvements on my time from the previous year (from 4:10 to 3:57), but most importantly, marathon experience this time was brilliant (as opposed to tortuous the year before). I felt so strong throughout and I've no doubt that the easy/slow runs stood to me. I'm not exaggerating but felt I got stronger as the miles went on. They even have a great chapter on race day strategy which I read the night before and was citing to myself (and poor Younganne) throughout the race. 0 -
P & D book is brilliant. I followed their 18 week plan (max mileage 55 miles) for DCM this year, and made (what I thought were!) great improvements on my time from the previous year (from 4:10 to 3:57), but most importantly, marathon experience this time was brilliant (as opposed to tortuous the year before). I felt so strong throughout and I've no doubt that the easy/slow runs stood to me. I'm not exaggerating but felt I got stronger as the miles went on. They even have a great chapter on race day strategy which I read the night before and was citing to myself (and poor Younganne) throughout the race.
Yes, I used it for my second DCM too and went from 4:15 to 3:32. Just like yourself, I felt at my best over the last 5 miles, thundering through the field as opposed to going backwards. It's a great book and plan for a second Marathon no doubt.
Funnily enough my easy pace for the 3:32 marathon was slightly slower than my easy pace for my 4:15. There's a lesson to be learned there (I think).0 -
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Having read ur log meno u were putting in very quick runs in ur training for first dcm. i got a bit of a surprise when i read ur dcm race report! It made my mind up to follow the 4.30 pacers this year. i finished in 4.15 and found it not too bad. ran first half very easy in 2.11 so felt strong enough for second half but when i think about wanting to knock another15 mins off this it does seem a lot. i did all my long runs at 9.30 to 10 min pace. all midweek from 8.50 to 9.20. i eventually did marathon at 9.43 min average as predicted by hal higdon for novice. i cant run at moment with sore ankle physio tomorrow so i have ordered p&d book for r&r! In order to break 4 hours and run 26 9min miles what pace would u suggest for long runs and easy runs based on my training from hh novice 1plan. was it u who said u found p&d easier than hh novice 1......i had to stop reading miclin muc log as i thought it had to be done on the side of a mountain in the dark!
I'll let Meno answer the rest but there's no way P&D is easier than Hal Higdon. 0 -
Having read ur log meno u were putting in very quick runs in ur training for first dcm. i got a bit of a surprise when i read ur dcm race report! It made my mind up to follow the 4.30 pacers this year. i finished in 4.15 and found it not too bad. ran first half very easy in 2.11 so felt strong enough for second half but when i think about wanting to knock another15 mins off this it does seem a lot. i did all my long runs at 9.30 to 10 min pace. all midweek from 8.50 to 9.20. i eventually did marathon at 9.43 min average as predicted by hal higdon for novice. i cant run at moment with sore ankle physio tomorrow so i have ordered p&d book for r&r! In order to break 4 hours and run 26 9min miles what pace would u suggest for long runs and easy runs based on my training from hh novice 1plan. was it u who said u found p&d easier than hh novice 1......i had to stop reading miclin muc log as i thought it had to be done on the side of a mountain in the dark!
I had plenty of speed going into my first DCM but no endurance I did all my long runs at 9 min pace or a bit faster for that first marathon but the truth be told, once they got over 13 miles I never found any of them comfortable and always felt like I was hanging on a bit.
For the second marathon I was aiming for 3:30 (8 min/miles) but would have done my easy long runs mostly at 9:-9:30 pace and they would feel really easy like I could keep going for a while longer. In the P&D plan some of the Long runs have Marathon Paced miles as part of the long runs, so obviously I would have done those at 8 min/mile or a touch faster. For the second marathon I was a lot fitter even before I even started P&D though, I had about (8 months solid running after my first marathon) behind including plenty of speedwork/tempo runs and had much faster PB's to back up my 3:30 hopes by then.. If i had played it safe and just went for a sub 4 (it was my backup plan) I would have been selling myself very short...
So To answer your question: you would want to go at 9:40+/mile for your easy long runs and easy short runs during the week. 10:30+ for your recovery runs and as fast as you can for your speed sessions to go for a 4hr marathon. This is all covered in the book in more detail though, so I would advise you to read it for yourself.
If I were you though I wouldn't tie myself down to a goal time just yet. If you keep running between now and your next marathon, you will likely be looking at a time well south of 4hrs.0 -
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Having read ur log meno u were putting in very quick runs in ur training for first dcm. i got a bit of a surprise when i read ur dcm race report! It made my mind up to follow the 4.30 pacers this year. i finished in 4.15 and found it not too bad. ran first half very easy in 2.11 so felt strong enough for second half but when i think about wanting to knock another15 mins off this it does seem a lot. i did all my long runs at 9.30 to 10 min pace. all midweek from 8.50 to 9.20. i eventually did marathon at 9.43 min average as predicted by hal higdon for novice. i cant run at moment with sore ankle physio tomorrow so i have ordered p&d book for r&r! In order to break 4 hours and run 26 9min miles what pace would u suggest for long runs and easy runs based on my training from hh novice 1plan. was it u who said u found p&d easier than hh novice 1......i had to stop reading miclin muc log as i thought it had to be done on the side of a mountain in the dark!
My first ever post was about how the P & D plan looked impossible, but Miclin Mun just posted back and told me it wasn't so bad, as long as you stuck fairly religiously to it. Reading his thread made me feel exhausted and like P&D was beyond me! Anyway, I stuck fairly religiously to it and I broke four hours and did most of my runs at 10 min/mile pace (both General Aerobic and LSR - the majority of P & D runs) and my recovery runs at 11 min miles. Now I did go through the whole battle with myself - how am I supposed to run 26 miles at 1 min per mile faster than I've done the majority of my training runs - but I guess you just have to trust the training plan (read that on some thread somewhere). Even the morning of the marathon my nerves were shot and I was still questioning myself, but it just came together. All those miles at the slower pace meant I had the endurance I guess. My half marathon time wasn't even that brilliant - I also read (on some thread somewhere) that I really needed to break 1:50 for the half in order to do a sub-four full, and I did it in 1:50:05, so I wasn't feeling that confident.
There are key training runs in the P & D plan like marathon pace runs (e.g. 18 mile LSR with 14 miles at Marathon pace - there are five of these types of runs in the plan, with each building in length) and then some Lactate threshhold runs (e.g 7 miles at half marathon pace) but these runs represent only run per week, the rest is easy/recovery runs. It's the accumulation of miles I guess.0 -
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Who'd do that? :pac:
God knows, whoever did a thing like that would be a right eejit :rolleyes::o
The penny finally dropped for me when I read the P&D advice about HR ranges for slow/easy runs. I spent a few weeks doubting, my HRM, my Max HR and even the P&D formulas, then I finally realised 'no you actually are supposed to run that slow'
Around the same point I started to love my easy running and dreading my speed sessions. That's how it should be 0 -
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So the kids wrote their lists to santa yesterday...now time for mine...
Dear Santa, sorry I mean Meno, I have been a good girl and slowed my runs down this week. But those pyramid strides were fantastic - I've never felt so fit and fast and energised, and more importantly niggle and injury free Please add a workout like this each week and I will promise to continue with the slow plodding the rest of the time 
Advanced Marathoning book ordered last night, no way that can wait til 25th Dec 0
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