DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

Dilbert75

Big Logger wrote: »

I missed you too! I couldn't stay away despite my love/hate relationsip I have on this forum.
I read about your race Dilbert and felt very upset for you, as I did for Blocky and Runchick especially as it was so near the end.

I don't think anyone hates you, in case that's what you think! We won't all always agree with each other and sometimes the minority are right but hopefully nobody takes it all that seriously.

Thanks for the sympathy - it was only a race though so it's merely a disappointment. I enjoyed almost all of the last 6 months of running and ended up much fitter and healthier than I was so that puts it all in perspective.

Big Logger

RedRunner wrote: »

I've pondered a while whether it is wise to post this on here right now but here goes. it may be an interesting topic. A few weeks ago I underwent a full health check, the full works. All results were good but the ECG showed up something unusual that the Doc recommended I follow up on. Basically I have normal sinus rhythm but show signs of something called "First Degree Heart Block" Sounds awful, and I was a bit scared at first what it might mean. Having now seen my GP and got some comfort from what he said(which is why I feel comfortable about posting this here now),I'm not as worried. Apparently it is quite common amongst "Elite Athletes" :pac: Heh heh...he said elite:) The upshot is that I'm being referred onto cardiologist as precaution but I can continue running and living as normal in meantime.

So my question is really more out of curiosity if anyone else on here especially the more experienced runners have heard of this or know of anyone with this condition who still continues to run and particularly in endurance events such as the marathon. I'd be gutted if I had to give up or cut down on the running in the future.

Fair play to you RR on doing the full shebang, my friend was just saying last week that I should get a full checkup myself. I found a few times on my runs lately that I was getting double heart beats but I put this down to general stress.

I seen your log there as well, that was me you seen alright, your race went very well. Nothing wrong with you for sure!

Big Logger

Dilbert75 wrote: »

I don't think anyone hates you, in case that's what you think! We won't all always agree with each other and sometimes the minority are right but hopefully nobody takes it all that seriously.

Thanks for the sympathy - it was only a race though so it's merely a disappointment. I enjoyed almost all of the last 6 months of running and ended up much fitter and healthier than I was so that puts it all in perspective.

Yeah when I read the reports I had visions in my head when I heard of collapses. I was wondering how none of you had injured your heads/faces but it seems it was more of a conscious collapse thankfully.

You have a good healthy outlook on the race and you're dead right. You done some great training over the winter.

Yeah I probably would've got some support on the points I was making if I was a bit more tactful but tact is not my forte as I've learnt . I did have a minor altercation with the guy I got personal with on another thread before that (he had got personal with me) and I'll leave it at that.
I really wasn't upset by the actual Blocky disagreement.

Dilbert75

Big Logger wrote: »

Yeah I probably would've got some support on the points I was making if I was a bit more tactful but tact is not my forte as I've learnt .

That's my sister-from-another-mister!

Anyway - how's the running going?

Dilbert75

menoscemo wrote: »

Racing them takes a lot out of you (in terms of preparation as much as in terms of the race itself). I raced London this year after almost a year of preparation, having missed Berlin, and have no intention of racing a Marathon for another year.....
Taking them easy is a different story. I fully intend to do pacing in DCM next year (I did last year too and don't count it when I say a year in prep) and Donadea 50k before racing a marathon again. Doing a marathon (or more) at a controlled easy pace is no more than an LSR in terms of recovery...

That's exactly what I wanted to hear.

Big Logger

Dilbert75 wrote: »

That's my sister-from-another-mister!

Anyway - how's the running going?

...my brother from another mother

Its actually not going that badly. It turns out I had a tear in the Tendon in the ankle. I finished 5 physio sessions two weeks ago and am now running without pain or too much tension. The tension was coming from the fact that there was scar tissue around my ankle and it had build up and was causing restrictive movement of the Tendon and therefore the calf was tight all the time.
I won't be setting the world on fire any time soon but I'm getting in a few runs and am planning the race series at least.

How is your own training going, are you doing any recovery or have any plans for the summer/autumn?

Dilbert75

That sounds positive enough. All ok here - haven't run a step since last Sunday but will prob do something light tomorrow and figure out a recovery plan from there. Will be making more use of my bike over the summer too. Have some non-sports activities to concentrate on for the next few weeks though so the rest will be no harm if I can manage to not kill anyone (I get a bit tetchy when I don't run for a few days).

Runchick

Just catching up on the thread after a lovely 5 day break with the family, plenty of time to lick my wounds, reflect and get over Limerick...tears were shed, late night discussions were had and the events were talked over and over and over - god I'm bored of my Limerick misadventure :rolleyes: But I just wanted to share a few things - a few embarrassing truths so fek it...

The main reason I crashed was my absolute obsession with avoiding toilet breaks I stopped at 9 miles to pee, fell behind the pacers, caught up and then vowed to not stop again :eek: From then on I merely sipped at water - sometimes taking a gel without any water to wash it down :eek: Yes it was hot so I poured it over me thinking that would suffice. I had 2 high5 tabs with me. I dissolved one in a bottle of water, drank the neck out of it and then thought there's no way I'm drinking all that so threw it away I then came up with the stupidest brainwave ever - I'll chew the next one - so I broke a bit off in my mouth and took a mouthful of water to 'dilute' it and left it at that...didn't take any more - more than half of that tab was in my gel belt when I finished.

So instead of drinking plenty, staying hydrated and finishing the race that was going so well, and maybe losing another 30 seconds stopping for the loo, I crashed in magnificent style (grazes on the side of my knee and head and pain on one ankle as reminders of falling ). The feeling was exactly the same as 2 previous occasions many years ago when I'd got too much sun on holidays and collapsed with sunstroke.

Hobbling to the end - no matter how long it would take - would have been a much more desirable outcome than not finishing the thing. Not finishing is the worst feeling ever - well in my case at least because I know I was being so stupid.

I'm not looking for sympathy with this. I wasn't going to post but thought it might help someone else not to make the same mistakes...not that there's anyone out there as daft as me...please feel free to give me stick - but not sympathy. The lesson is learnt and I'm now moving on.

BTW I agree with the points DrQuirky made and don't rule out the possibility that I would have crashed and burned a few miles further in due to my inexperience, but I guess I'll never know that...

New runner

Runchick, thank u so much for posting this, and u certainly don't deserve stick, u know yourself that what u did ended up not working n u will never make that mistake again. I cudnt help going over in my head that u had done nothing wrong n trained so hard n if u crashed then how was I ever gonna make the finish line. Had serious doubts n then with the discussions yest my confidence was at an all time low, but reading this has certainly helped n I will take on board your experience n try not to make same mistake in 3 weeks time. I was n still am absolutely gutted for u n for Dilbert75 but it's all a learning curve and sharing experiences, views n opinions is how we help 1 another. N u will rock the next 1!

Runchick

New runner wrote: »

Runchick, thank u so much for posting this, and u certainly don't deserve stick, u know yourself that what u did ended up not working n u will never make that mistake again. I cudnt help going over in my head that u had done nothing wrong n trained so hard n if u crashed then how was I ever gonna make the finish line. Had serious doubts n then with the discussions yest my confidence was at an all time low, but reading this has certainly helped n I will take on board your experience n try not to make same mistake in 3 weeks time. I was n still am absolutely gutted for u n for Dilbert75 but it's all a learning curve and sharing experiences, views n opinions is how we help 1 another. N u will rock the next 1!

I have no doubt that you will run a smart race new runner, massive congrats on reaching the 800 mile mark, you should be very proud of your achievements so far

Dilbert75

If it's any consolation A I had 4 gels and a couple of high 5 tabs left in my belt when I pulled out so that's where inexperience let me down too - there's a balance between too much and too little (should have read Goldilocks and the Three Bears before I headed out that day!).

Onwards and upwards. He (or she) who never made a mistake never tried anything new.

Dilbert75

btw - what did the high 5 tab taste like? Must have been awful I'd say.

Runchick

Dilbert75 wrote: »

btw - what did the high 5 tab taste like? Must have been awful I'd say.

Absolutely vile, could feel the fizziness almost coming out my nose :eek:

Dilbert75

Runchick wrote: »

Absolutely vile, could feel the fizziness almost coming out my nose :eek:

That's the best laugh I've had all week. (Sorry)

Pacing Mule

Thanks Runchick (a click on a thanks button isn't enough here )

Honest assessment that others can learn from in the future. Nothing to be embarrassed about whatsoever.

Gavlor

The only guy from the sub 3 pace group to hit his target had a support guy on a bike from Mile 15 onwards with gels, drinks etc on demand. Says it all really

RedRunner

Big Logger wrote: »

Fair play to you RR on doing the full shebang, my friend was just saying last week that I should get a full checkup myself. I found a few times on my runs lately that I was getting double heart beats but I put this down to general stress.

I seen your log there as well, that was me you seen alright, your race went very well. Nothing wrong with you for sure!

Thanks Rash...I mean BL;) Glad did it alright as it confirmed how my health has improved greatly since I took up running. I did a similar check up 5 yrs ago and my resting HR then was 76:eek: compared to 51 in the most recent test.

Glad to see you are back running regularly as well as logging.

RedRunner

Dilbert75 wrote: »

If it's any consolation A I had 4 gels and a couple of high 5 tabs left in my belt when I pulled out so that's where inexperience let me down too - there's a balance between too much and too little (should have read Goldilocks and the Three Bears before I headed out that day!).

Onwards and upwards. He (or she) who never made a mistake never tried anything new.

+1 to that. I think there is a lot of trial and error involved in running a marathon even if you do all the basics correctly.

Pacing Mule

Gavlor wrote: »

The only guy from the sub 3 pace group to hit his target had a support guy on a bike from Mile 15 onwards with gels, drinks etc on demand. Says it all really

How many were in the group Gavlor ?


And as a seperate question in general would people feel that such aid makes the time not a "true" marathon time ?

blockic

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

And as a seperate question in general would people feel that such aid makes the time not a "true" marathon time ?

Interesting Q PM. I know in Dublin any outside assistance is not allowed (not that people don't do it). Not sure if Limerick was the same.

I would see it an an unfair disadvantage to other participants, so I would be of that opinion myself.

Pacing Mule

blockic wrote: »

Interesting Q PM. I know in Dublin any outside assistance is not allowed (not that people don't do it). Not sure if Limerick was the same.

I would see it an an unfair disadvantage to other participants, so I would be of that opinion myself.

I remember reading that alright. Then wondering along the route would all the runners taking from the people handing out fruit, jellies etc along the route (not at the official points) be open to DQ ? I think they would be technically but realistically it isn't going to happen at our end of the race anyway. Our end btw referring to anything non elite.

RedRunner

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

And as a seperate question in general would people feel that such aid makes the time not a "true" marathon time ?

Personally I think it would dilute the achievement. The marathon is an individual battle, where you alone are responsible for your training, your race planning, and having this kind of assistance on tap would give unfair advantage. I think I'd rather a sub 3 or any time for that matter obtained on my own steam without that level of outside assistance.

Gavlor

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

How many were in the group Gavlor ?


And as a seperate question in general would people feel that such aid makes the time not a "true" marathon time ?

Started off around 10-11, i was the last one with him at mile 24 before I dropped off the pace. The guy that made it kicked on @ 21, he came home 2.58. Great performance by him I'm fairness. I had no problem with him using the bike guy, every little helps.

menoscemo

Gavlor wrote: »

Started off around 10-11, i was the last one with him at mile 24 before I dropped off the pace. The guy that made it kicked on @ 21, he came home 2.58. Great performance by him I'm fairness. I had no problem with him using the bike guy, every little helps.

As long as the bike guy was not interfering with other runners I don't have a problem with it. I'd imagine you would get away with it in the likes of Limerick where there would be few people at that pace, In Dublin or a bigger race, the bike would inevitably interfere with others.
If you think having assistance dilutes the achievement then you should never run with pacers, we were grabbing/holding drinks for people in Limerick and telling pacees to run through the aid stations etc. Many people have a friend on the course with a bottle, is that cheating?

Remember, elites get to place their own personal drinks at special aid stations, us mortals don't get that opportunity. Every little helps, you still have to run the race on your own legs.

chinguetti

If the bike was in front of him or besides him, he is pacing off the bike and its wrong as he's using the bike for pacing and not another runner. People who use pacers are using another runner and we've all done that in a race i guess.

Well that's my view on the matter. Bikes on a course are wrong and dangerous unless they are official bikes.

blockic

menoscemo wrote: »

As long as the bike guy was not interfering with other runners I don't have a problem with it. I'd imagine you would get away with it in the likes of Limerick where there would be few people at that pace, In Dublin or a bigger race, the bike would inevitably interfere with others.
If you think having assistance dilutes the achievement then you should never run with pacers, we were grabbing/holding drinks for people in Limerick and telling pacees to run through the aid stations etc. Many people have a friend on the course with a bottle, is that cheating?

Remember, elites get to place their own personal drinks at special aid stations, us mortals don't get that opportunity. Every little helps, you still have to run the race on your own legs.

No one mentioned cheating! Just that it is an advantage that other runners wouldn't have. It doesn't worry me if I saw a guy doing it because you should be only worrying about yourself at this level. I just wouldn't do it myself (don't quote me on that if I still haven't broken 3 in 2 years! )

I don't know why I have this in my head but I see a difference between having someone on the course with a bottle at a certain point and having a bike with you to get stuff on demand whenever you want it depending on how you are going. You can't get someone to change their location for you to pick up the bottle halfway through the race!

menoscemo

blockic wrote: »

No one mentioned cheating!

In DCM for one, it is cheating cos it is against the rules. Not sure about Limerick.

Gavlor

It definitely wasn't an obstruction. If anything it was assistance for a while as they also offered water around to the group. Not was he pacing off the bike, it was literally for water, gels and encouragement. As meno said, the guy still had to run on his own legs.

blockic

menoscemo wrote: »

In DCM for one, it is cheating cos it is against the rules. Not sure about Limerick.

Having thought about it I have sourced what my problem with it is. I just hate bikes!!

Dilbert75

If I were racing against him for position then I'd probably consider it cheating or unsporting. If I'm only racing the clock and it doesn't impede me, it wouldn't bother me much. But if I got an equal time unaided I'd consider it a better performance.