DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

Big Logger

Gavlor wrote: »

That's nothing, career move has had running induced OCD for the last 18 months

I thought you had that where you're afraid to run double digit figures? :rolleyes:

menoscemo

I paced the 1:50 group in the Dublin half and despite the fact it is 24 minutes outside my PB, I really struggled to get around yesterday. Just to say for those that had a disaster yesterday don't worry. It was a tough race for everyone, I guess the tough nature of the course combined with the unexpected heat and humidity were the factors.

Anyway I want everyone this week to decide on your MP, however don't base that solely on one bad result yesterday if you have other indicators saying you could do better.

Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday| Thursday| Friday| Saturday| Sunday| Total Mileage
Easy/rest| Easy/rest| 14 miles with 10 @ MP |Recovery |Easy/rest| Easy/rest|22 miles | 50-60 miles

For those that raced a HM full out on the weekend you can consider leaving the session until Thursday or even scrap it altogeher if you don't feel sufficiently recovered. I'll leave that up to each individual to decide.

22 is our longest LSR, take it nice and easy this week and get the time on the feet.

How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

New runner

Did 10k charity run today for MS and delighted to win €30 for 2nd female home, found it tough going, hilly enough in places, around clonmany . Around 7-8k was all up hill n only thing kept me going was knowing had to be a good downhill stretch after it, which thankfully there was. Finished in time of 46.42 , missing out on a PB by few seconds so I'm happy with that as it was few weeks ago on a much flatter course!

docjewel

menoscemo wrote: »

How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

Aiming for 3:39ish with target pace circa 8:20

It may a bit on the soft side of a target but as of now I'm sticking to my initial targets for DCM this year.If on the day I hit 20 miles & feel good I may try & shave another few seconds off this time.:)

Been to the physio during the week,the calves got a good ol working out:D,some scar tissue & a slight strain on the right hamstring & while working the hamstring there was some "clunking":eek: in the chest which turns out to be the hip flexor muscle so have some extra stretches to do.
Was able to split some of the runs into doubles during the week which gave a nice high mileage week.

Looking forward to the easy LSR next weekend;)

Big Logger

New runner wrote: »

Did 10k charity run today for MS and delighted to win €30 for 2nd female home, found it tough going, hilly enough in places, around clonmany . Around 7-8k was all up hill n only thing kept me going was knowing had to be a good downhill stretch after it, which thankfully there was. Finished in time of 46.42 , missing out on a PB by few seconds so I'm happy with that as it was few weeks ago on a much flatter course!

That's brilliant New Runner, delighted to read that.

SouthMan

Tough day at the office in Charleville HM today - sailing along with 1.50 pacers up to mile 7 - seemed to go a bit wrong then,wasnt a total disaster but would have liked to have done better - managed to pull a 1.58!putting it down to heat/humidity,who'd have ever thought last week of sept & 23 degrees.

Alanm

blockic wrote: »

Ya should have introduced yourself Alan. next time hopefully. We were in Ryans from about 1:30 to 6ish....good craic.

Had every intention of but got into the start area a bit too late to get close enough to say hello before the start. Was close enough to see the red runners for quite a few miles but reckoned I'd leave the chat to the end. Missed ya all at the finish line and met a random work colleague and headed off with him instead.. Will certainly ensure I'm able to hang around after the marathon!

Alanm

menoscemo wrote: »

How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

Last few weeks haven't been great for me. Picked up a bit of an injury which had me out of action for a few days and haven't been hitting any of my session paces or where I have they were uncomfortable (the 3 weeks before that were brilliant and everything was going to plan).

With the fact that there isn't a 3:15 pacer, I'm now thinking about 3:20, certainly I'd have no chance at 3:10 and pacing myself probably wouldn't go well.

Looking forward to the 22 mile attempt this weekend.. I think

Walkedit

Well done everyone for all the great training and races. I'm still off PF injured so can totally empathise with anyone having to miss DCM, I'm still gutted not to be there although chap who passed Way RIP puts it all in perspective. Meanwhile I'm losing some excess baggage (-2st now) and falling in love with my bike, did my 1st 80 miler in Wicklow in 8 hrs. It felt like 1st DCM all over again. Hoping to start running again soon starting with champions everywhere movement weekend to get better form in Nov. Keep up the good work I'll be watching and cheering from the wings. I cant believe it but I'm dreaming about a spring marathon, sad case or what!

Murph_D

menoscemo wrote: »

How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

Feeling better than I was on Sat afternoon - nice to meet you just as we moved off, meno, good pacing job; managed to stay in front of ye but just about.

No injuries or niggles so far. I will be looking at 3:45 or 3:50. The latter probably more realistic and I like the idea of a pace group for a change. Bring it on!

Willie42

menoscemo wrote: »

How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

Where to start? Lets start with the positives, it was great to meet yourself, Marthstew and Digger. It was even better to have the pleasure of your company and experience for the first 7 miles, I only wish I could have stuck it out to the end. I couldn't understand why I started to struggle so much, we were behind pace and the legs just wouldn't keep up - the bloke to my right making all the nasal noise was really getting to me so I decided to slow up a bit, catch my breath and have a gel. Slowed up alright, couldn't get the legs to pick up pace again - there was just nothing there, nothing. Met OH at mile 8 and decided to just finish out the run - still thinking I would somehow pick things up a bit and maybe do at least some MP miles. Legs were so heavy the whole way round and everyone and their mother passed me by along the way - couldn't even manage LSR pace - legs totally tied up, thighs felt so heavy - there was just nothing there. I couldn't believe it when I came back into the park at Military Road, so many people in distress etc. Some chap who seemed to be flying with 800m or more to go started shouting at everyone around him to pick it up the end was near and he actually told me to start running and I did! Saw the finish and sprinted in - thanks for the shout out Meno. Legs were in bits, totally deflated. Was tempted to stop at mile 8 when I saw OH but really thought things would turn around and wasn't injured so I felt I had to finish it out. Came in at 2:01:40. So where does that leave me now?

Well I guess it was stupid (to say the least) of me to run on Saturday in the first place as I had been off work all week with ear infections and sore throat and am still on antibiotics. Was also on antibiotics two weeks previous for a week - so health wise I haven't been 100%. Was back in work Friday and felt good for the first time in a week and decided to run Saturday!

Has my marathon target changed since Saturday - I'm not sure! Training has been going really well - I've met all my target times and to be honest not with any great difficulty - so would I be selling myself short moving the goal posts at this stage on the back of Saturday? Think I will still train for 9 min/miles and decide closer to time.:(

tenreds

Originally Posted by menoscemo View Post
How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

Not sure what to aim for in Dublin,I ran a 3.43 marathon in June but since then I taken 4 min off my 10K down to 45 min,and 6 off my half time down to 1.38.Training is going well hit 50 miles last week but would a target of 3.30 be too much or safer to go for 3.40 and push on in the second half if feeling good.
Any advice welcomed

menoscemo

tenreds wrote: »

Not sure what to aim for in Dublin,I ran a 3.43 marathon in June but since then I taken 4 min off my 10K down to 45 min,and 6 off my half time down to 1.38.Training is going well hit 50 miles last week but would a target of 3.30 be too much or safer to go for 3.40 and push on in the second half if feeling good.
Any advice welcomed

When did you run your half previous to your June Marathon?
How soon ago did you run your most recent half?

All things being equal, taking 6 minutes off your half time should translate to 12 minutes off your full time, and if anything your endurance should have improved; so taking 13 minutes of your marathon is not at all out of the question.

@willie42. I am amazaed that you were on antibiotics on Saturday!! You really shouldn't have been trying to race on antibiotics as they will take a lot out of you. That's obviously the cause of your poor result. I know you are not supposed to but I would train on antibiotics but just easy miles- no hard sessions or races.

Assuming you get over your infection that will still be training banked, so no need to adjust your target. I remember a few years ago when claralara was struggling with low Iron (though she didn't know it at the time) she struggled to a 2hr HM and a month later with the Iron issue resolved she breezed to a 3:53 in DCM. I'd imagine you are in a similar situation, just make sure to get over your illness.

Willie42

Thanks Meno, I finish antibiotics tomorrow and will leave session till Thursday. Doc said it would be fine to run but really I should of went with my own gut feeling of how I felt - lesson learnt

tomred1N

menoscemo wrote: »

I paced the 1:50 group in the Dublin half and despite the fact it is 24 minutes outside my PB, I really struggled to get around yesterday. Just to say for those that had a disaster yesterday don't worry. It was a tough race for everyone, I guess the tough nature of the course combined with the unexpected heat and humidity were the factors.

Anyway I want everyone this week to decide on your MP, however don't base that solely on one bad result yesterday if you have other indicators saying you could do better.

Monday|Tuesday|Wednesday| Thursday| Friday| Saturday| Sunday| Total Mileage
Easy/rest| Easy/rest| 14 miles with 10 @ MP |Recovery |Easy/rest| Easy/rest|22 miles | 50-60 miles

For those that raced a HM full out on the weekend you can consider leaving the session until Thursday or even scrap it altogeher if you don't feel sufficiently recovered. I'll leave that up to each individual to decide.

22 is our longest LSR, take it nice and easy this week and get the time on the feet.

How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

Feeling good meno thanks , been especially enjoying the midweek sessions. Don't think I will be able for this one wednesday night though after the half yesterday. May do a shorter version Thursday instead to keep ticking over as I may have to do LSR saturday as well.Think I will go with the 8 min/mile marathon pace for dublin. That McMillum thing says 3.20 which I know is not possible but do you think 10 minutes outside this is doable??? Ran 3.43 off a 1:40 half in Cork , now looking to do 3.30 off a 1:35 half ......5 months later and hopefully 4/5KG less to carry round. My gut says it will be a slog and in hindsight Cork was probably so nice a run that it will never happen again!! ....however it was very warm and that should not be an issue in October. Now I better look at entering the bloody thing before I forget.

menoscemo

tomred1N wrote: »

Feeling good meno thanks , been especially enjoying the midweek sessions. Don't think I will be able for this one wednesday night though after the half yesterday. May do a shorter version Thursday instead to keep ticking over as I may have to do LSR saturday as well.Think I will go with the 8 min/mile marathon pace for dublin. That McMillum thing says 3.20 which I know is not possible but do you think 10 minutes outside this is doable??? Ran 3.43 off a 1:40 half in Cork , now looking to do 3.30 off a 1:35 half ......5 months later and hopefully 4/5KG less to carry round. My gut says it will be a slog and in hindsight Cork was probably so nice a run that it will never happen again!! ....however it was very warm and that should not be an issue in October. Now I better look at entering the bloody thing before I forget.

Yeah; most people running 1:35 should be able to run 3:30 for a full, especially with added endurance built up between marathons. As you say conditions should be better in DCM than the heat in cork this year.

Yes I tentatlively put the session in for wednesday but mostly thinking of those running the half last saturday. Definitely hold off the session until Thursday so; and since you have to do your long run on Saturday just do 6-7 miles @ MP. If you are feeling really brave you can tag the missed MP miles on the to the end of your long run.

tenreds

When did you run your half previous to your June Marathon?
How soon ago did you run your most recent half?

First half was in April (1.44) but a hilly course my last one was on September 8 nice flat run,if I can meet my targets over the next two weeks of 55 &60 mile think I will try for 3.30:eek:

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

How is everyone feeling and what are the Marathon targets?

Needless to say I have adjusted my target, assuming the next few weeks go ok, to sub 4hrs rather than 3:45.That would still be a 27 minute PB so still setting myself a challenge. The back is still not a 100% but I'm building the mileage back up now and weekly visits to physio. It's getting stronger but its slow. Reckon the disc is just still a little inflamed.

The next few long runs will ultimately decide what I need to do.

New runner

Hi memo sorry for bothering u but my totals in the spreadsheet arent adding up, on Sunday I had done 1,428m n after adding 4.2m from yesterday it's now saying 1,398m ?? . Thanks

blockic

New runner wrote: »

Hi memo sorry for bothering u but my totals in the spreadsheet arent adding up, on Sunday I had done 1,428m n after adding 4.2m from yesterday it's now saying 1,398m ?? . Thanks

Should be sorted now new runner...

New runner

blockic wrote: »

Should be sorted now new runner...

Thanks blockic

RedRunner

Copied from my own log:Tuesday 24th

Saw the physio this evening and he decided he was going to "release" my back. So he went to work and had me doing all sorts of contortions while he tried to push my hips and back into the right places. Have a new set of exercises to do now and don't have to see him for another two weeks. I can increase the mileage this week so we agreed I could do 6 tonight, 10 on thursday and 16-18 on Sunday.

My hope would be to try and do some at MP on thursday. Was thinking maybe 6 but is it too early to try this? Any advice Meno et al?

career_move

RedRunner wrote: »

Copied from my own log:Tuesday 24th

Saw the physio this evening and he decided he was going to "release" my back. So he went to work and had me doing all sorts of contortions while he tried to push my hips and back into the right places. Have a new set of exercises to do now and don't have to see him for another two weeks. I can increase the mileage this week so we agreed I could do 6 tonight, 10 on thursday and 16-18 on Sunday.

My hope would be to try and do some at MP on thursday. Was thinking maybe 6 but is it too early to try this? Any advice Meno et al?

Hate to step on Meno's toes here but since I'm in advice-giving mode I would do 2m w/u, 3x2m @ MP with 2 min jogs in between and 2m c/d

RedRunner

career_move wrote: »

Hate to step on Meno's toes here but since I'm in advice-giving mode I would do 2m w/u, 3x2m @ MP with 2 min jogs in between and 2m c/d

Thanks CM...well I did open it up to .."et al" so you are entitled to offer up the advice;)

menoscemo

RedRunner wrote: »

Copied from my own log:Tuesday 24th

Saw the physio this evening and he decided he was going to "release" my back. So he went to work and had me doing all sorts of contortions while he tried to push my hips and back into the right places. Have a new set of exercises to do now and don't have to see him for another two weeks. I can increase the mileage this week so we agreed I could do 6 tonight, 10 on thursday and 16-18 on Sunday.

My hope would be to try and do some at MP on thursday. Was thinking maybe 6 but is it too early to try this? Any advice Meno et al?

What's MP now?
If you are now targetting 9 min/mile havent you been doing all your recent runs at theat pace anyway? :pac:
* I just checked and I see the average between your last 4 runs is about 9:10/mile which is pretty much 4hr pace......

If you are talking about 8:30/mile as MP then yeah I would go with C_M's suggestion....but if you are looking at a 4hr Marathon you effectively ran 6 miles @ MP yesterday already....

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

What's MP now?
If you are now targetting 9 min/mile havent you been doing all your recent runs at theat pace anyway? :pac:
* I just checked and I see the average between your last 4 runs is about 9:10/mile which is pretty much 4hr pace......

If you are talking about 8:30/mile as MP then yeah I would go with C_M's suggestion....but if you are looking at a 4hr Marathon you effectively ran 6 miles @ MP yesterday already....

Ok,ok I take your point I may be doing the recent runs a bit fast ...on paper...but look at the avg hr...the effort was definitely easy

I was thinking that with the lack of much running,sessions and particularly LSRs that I would struggle to hold 8.30 pace for the full distance. 9 mins just seems more achievable.

The plan would be to do my long runs from here on between 9.30 to 9.40. Would that not set me up for sub 4 even if I did tend to do some of the shorter ones slightly faster. I'm avoiding hard runs at moment midweek really in fear of injury .


What am I doing wrong?

menoscemo

RedRunner wrote: »

What am I doing wrong?

To be honest I really don't know :pac:
Yes I noticed your HR is very low for 9 min/mile; so in theory that should be a very easy pace for you; however given how long you have been off it is probably a good target MP. I guess you still have the speed but maybe not the engine to keep it up for a long distance.

Given your lack of training I guess your best bet from here on is just to get as many miles covered and as many long runs as possible without re inuring yourself. Wherever that line is you are just going to judge for yourself (you know your body better than any of us).
My own experience of injury says that I avoid any fast work coming back as that is what is most likely to cause problems again.

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

To be honest I really don't know :pac:
Yes I noticed your HR is very low for 9 min/mile; so in theory that should be a very easy pace for you; however given how long you have been off it is probably a good target MP. I guess you still have the speed but maybe not the engine to keep it up for a long distance.

Given your lack of training I guess your best bet from here on is just to get as many miles covered and as many long runs as possible without re inuring yourself. Wherever that line is you are just going to judge for yourself (you know your body better than any of us).
My own experience of injury says that I avoid any fast work coming back as that is what is most likely to cause problems again.

That is my plan in a nutshell. I'll hope for the best then that I can with the help of some on here drag my ass along for the duration. Thanks Meno. It's been an awful shame I couldn't follow your plan because I really liked the look of it so far and will very likely try it again for next one.

DOCO12

Best of luck to you Red Runner getting stuck back into it. What the Physio did to you sounds so painful! I was sidelined myself this week so far with a niggle hoping I've it sorted now.

Anyone else finding it hard to pencil in the midweek long runs? I'm hoping to do mine tomo. Just wondering Meno is it getting the 14miles in that's most important or the 10 at MP? If time didn't permit would it be of any benefit to say do 3easy in am and then 11-12 in eve with the 10at MP thrown in? Just wondering. Thanks

menoscemo

DOCO12 wrote: »

Best of luck to you Red Runner getting stuck back into it. What the Physio did to you sounds so painful! I was sidelined myself this week so far with a niggle hoping I've it sorted now.

Anyone else finding it hard to pencil in the midweek long runs? I'm hoping to do mine tomo. Just wondering Meno is it getting the 14miles in that's most important or the 10 at MP? If time didn't permit would it be of any benefit to say do 3easy in am and then 11-12 in eve with the 10at MP thrown in? Just wondering. Thanks

The most important bit is getting in the 10 @ MP. Just do the 10 MP as part of an 11/12 mile run if necessary, and forget about the 3 in the morning. But if you have time for 12; have you really not got time for 14?

It is very important to generally get a 2 mile w/u and c/d done especially the c/d aids recovery. In the case of an MP run though a 1 mile w/u + c/d is probably sufficient.