DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

menoscemo

Fantastic Stuff out of everyone this weekend!! Pretty much PBs all round and some really huge ones to boot. I am really glad the race tips helped, especially the part about 'Pain'. I was not sure how that would go down :pac:

Now you (mostly) all have an idea about current fitness it is probably a good idea to reassess training paces.
Simply Plug your race time from this weekend into the McMillan calculator and up on the right will pop predicted time for other distances and below that training paces.

Most importantly you will see your ideal Easy/recovery/Long run paces based on current fitness.
E.G. Dilbert75 ran a 1:38:40 half, so his easy pace is now 8-9 min/mile and recovery is 9-9:45/mile.
As you can see you are afforded a wide range for these paces, but don't feel under pressure to push the high end, just try to keep approximately within the parameters. If your body feel like going a little slower, don't be afraid to do so.

Another interesting feature of McMillan is the predicted race times for other distances. Use this to set a goal for the next race. Factor in a little improvement.

Our training for the next 8 weeks, plans to get you all ready for a race at the end of January. Base the training in sessions on your goal time. I will include a 5 mile, 10km and 10 mile option as those seem to be the popular races.

This weeks plan is:

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|3 mile easy|rest|5 miles easy with strides or session*|2 miles recovery|4m easy |LSR (10-12 miles or session*)|


For those that raced the Half marathon on Saturday, take the runs early in the week really easy and leave the session until the weekend. You can do it as part of your long run with an extra mile or two in your warm/cool down. Also switch the 2 mile recovery from Thursday to Sunday.
The others can do it on Wednesday as normal since 3-4 days should be enough to recover from a 5k/10k race...

The session is built around your goal race at the end of January.
For those doing Raheny 5 mile the session is: 1 mile easy warm up, 4 x 1 mile at goal pace (3 minutes jog recovery between reps), 1 mile cool down.

For the 10k'ers: 1 mile warm up, 6 x 1 mile @ goal pace (3 minute jog recoveries), 1 mile cool down.

Finally for the 10 milers: 1 mile warm up, 3 x 2miles at Goal pace (4 minute jog recoveries between reps), 1 mile cool down.

We will do 4 of these sessions buiding up the length of time you run at goal pace each time, so that by end of the 4th session you will be ready to hold that pace for the whole race!!

Good luck with it!!

sureitsgrand

StephenRooney wrote: »

This weekend I opted for the rush 10k, inspired by all your great Waterford results I knew I had to try for pb! Previous fingal 10k pb was 54:35
I did something to my lowr back yesterday that made me consider not running but hot water bottle and deep heat eased it enough.
The course was 2 laps and the scenery was nice, conditions were good.
I took off from the back and passed people for first 5k which felt good, then at half way I felt I'd gone too fast and slowed for a breather. The 2nd lap I just tried to keep moving a steady pace and remembered meno's tips! Picked a few lads and chased them, passed most of them. The last km was hard work. Finished in 47;18 with a 5k split of 24:18, am delighted!!!
I was sure the 1st half was faster than 2nd! But no.
Well worth the 15euro and well organised.
Time for a creamy Guinness

Jaysis Stephen. My 10K PB is similar to your Fingal 10K time...Doing the Aware 10K next weekend and had originally hoped for sub 50.. Thinking that might be too soft now...Training's been going well...

Well done again.

Deedee2012

Wow brilliant running all weekend, well done everyone, really enjoyed all the race reports. On my 7th day in a row not running so am bouncing off the walls! Running club christmas party, great night and I got the best newcomer award! Yay, was delighted. Joined in April and my running has only improved since then, highly recommend joining a club for anyone who has one local to them

Steroo

sureitsgrand wrote: »

Jaysis Stephen. My 10K PB is similar to your Fingal 10K time...Doing the Aware 10K next weekend and had originally hoped for sub 50.. Thinking that might be too soft now...Training's been going well...

Well done again.

Well at least that should give u confidence, the fingal pb was a soft target in fairness cos it was early days in dcm training. What was ur marathon time? Mine was 4:16. Beat of luck, looking fed to the report!

Gavlor

menoscemo wrote: »

Fantastic Stuff out of everyone this weekend!! Pretty much PBs all round and some really huge ones to boot. I am really glad the race tips helped, especially the part about 'Pain'. I was not sure how that would go down :pac:

Now you (mostly) all have an idea about current fitness it is probably a good idea to reassess training paces.
Simply Plug your race time from this weekend into the McMillan calculator and up on the right will pop predicted time for other distances and below that training paces.

Most importantly you will see your ideal Easy/recovery/Long run paces based on current fitness.
E.G. Dilbert75 ran a 1:38:40 half, so his easy pace is now 8-9 min/mile and recovery is 9-9:45/mile.
As you can see you are afforded a wide range for these paces, but don't feel under pressure to push the high end, just try to keep approximately within the parameters. If your body feel like going a little slower, don't be afraid to do so.

Another interesting feature of McMillan is the predicted race times for other distances. Use this to set a goal for the next race. Factor in a little improvement.

Our training for the next 8 weeks, plans to get you all ready for a race at the end of January. Base the training in sessions on your goal time. I will include a 5 mile, 10km and 10 mile option as those seem to be the popular races.

This weeks plan is:

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|3 mile easy|rest|5 miles easy with strides or session*|2 miles recovery|4m easy |LSR (10-12 miles or session*)|


For those that raced the Half marathon on Saturday, take the runs early in the week really easy and leave the session until the weekend. You can do it as part of your long run with an extra mile or two in your warm/cool down. Also switch the 2 mile recovery from Thursday to Sunday.
The others can do it on Wednesday as normal since 3-4 days should be enough to recover from a 5k/10k race...

The session is built around your goal race at the end of January.
For those doing Raheny 5 mile the session is: 1 mile easy warm up, 4 x 1 mile at goal pace (3 minutes jog recovery between reps), 1 mile cool down.

For the 10k'ers: 1 mile warm up, 6 x 1 mile @ goal pace (s minute jog recoveries), 1 mile cool down.

Finally for the 10 milers: 1 mile warm up, 3 x 2miles at Goal pace (4 minute jog recoveries between reps), 1 mile cool down.

We will do 4 of these sessions buiding up the length of time you run at goal pace each time, so that by end of the 4th session you will be ready to hold that pace for the whole race!!

Good luck with it!!

Cheers for the link meno, exactly what I need for lsr ranges.
According to McMillan, both my 5 mile and half marathon times have me on track for sub 3hr marathon next year

Now for a month of beer, pringles n chocolate!! (and the odd run or 20)

dechol

StephenRooney wrote: »

Ha ha thanks a lot, we are all making good progress. Looking forward to being part of the next group event and meeting u all.

Brilliant to make such an improvement! Well done.

menoscemo

Gavlor wrote: »

Cheers for the link meno, exactly what I need for lsr ranges.
According to McMillan, both my 5 mile and half marathon times have me on track for sub 3hr marathon next year

Now for a month of beer, pringles n chocolate!! (and the odd run or 20)

What marathon will you be targeting for sub 3 Gavlor?

I have the same target and at the moment I am thinking of giving it a lash in Portumna in June...

sureitsgrand

StephenRooney wrote: »

Well at least that should give u confidence, the fingal pb was a soft target in fairness cos it was early days in dcm training. What was ur marathon time? Mine was 4:16. Beat of luck, looking fed to the report!

Marathon time was disappointing considering half time (4:38 versus 1:53). Although my 10K PB is 54:something my 10K split in the half is 52:something which perhaps indicates that sub 50 is defo within my grasp...if not a bit soft.

Ah shur I'll give it a good bash!

Gavlor

menoscemo wrote: »

What marathon will you be targeting for sub 3 Gavlor?

I have the same target and at the moment I am thinking of giving it a lash in Portumna in June...

Haven't decided yet meno... Ideally I'd like to run 3 next year. April, June/July and oct/November

Prague, edinblur, Waterford, cork, Dublin and Valencia were my in my plans but I'll def add portumna to the list

Are you focusing on June or will you run a few more? Me thinks we'll have blocki on the trail for 3 aswell

menoscemo

Gavlor wrote: »

Haven't decided yet meno... Ideally I'd like to run 3 next year. April, June/July and oct/November

Prague, edinblur, Waterford, cork, Dublin and Valencia were my in my plans but I'll def add portumna to the list

Are you focusing on June or will you run a few more? Me thinks we'll have blocki on the trail for 3 aswell

I'll be doing a 50k in February and London marathon in April too :eek:

The 50k will just be a long steady run, and I am reluctant to race London because it is not in my own name (don't ask :P). That said if I am in sub-3 shape for London it might be hard to resist going for it...

I was thinking Portumna because by all accounts it is about as fast as you get in Ireland

Steroo

sureitsgrand wrote: »

Marathon time was disappointing considering half time (4:38 versus 1:53). Although my 10K PB is 54:something my 10K split in the half is 52:something which perhaps indicates that sub 50 is defo within my grasp...if not a bit soft.

Ah shur I'll give it a good bash!

My half was the same. You'll go sub 50 no bother. So a mile warm up and be ready to hit the pace early! Enjoy

Gavlor

menoscemo wrote: »

I'll be doing a 50k in February and London marathon in April too :eek:

The 50k will just be a long steady run, and I am reluctant to race London because it is not in my own name (don't ask :P). That said if I am in sub-3 shape for London it might be hard to resist going for it...

I was thinking Portumna because by all accounts it is about as fast as you get in Ireland

I need career_move to help me out with a picture of a lunatic!!

I Definitely wouldn't kill myself for sub 3 if my name wasn't on the record... Would love to run London though, the crowds alone will have you gunning for a pb

menoscemo

Gavlor wrote: »

I need career_move to help me out with a picture of a lunatic!!

Hey, this is my sensible year :mad:. Normally between feb-april I race the 50k, a marathons and connemara Ultra (39.3 miles).

blockic

Gavlor wrote: »

Me thinks we'll have blocki on the trail for 3 aswell

:eek::eek::eek:

Haha, will see how Rotterdam goes first! But my assault on sub 3 will more likely be 2014 if everything goes to plan! One step at a time!:cool:

dazza21ie

Bit late to the party but also managed a new 5k PB this morning of 22:25 at Letterkenny Turkey Trot taking just over 2 mins off previous one! Full report over on log if interested.

career_move

menoscemo wrote: »

I'll be doing a 50k in February and London marathon in April and Portumna in June and pacing DCM in October and pacing a few 5ks and a few 10ks as well. Oh and pacing the odd half too

Gavlor wrote: »

I need career_move to help me out with a picture of a lunatic!!

Willie42

menoscemo wrote: »

Our training for the next 8 weeks, plans to get you all ready for a race at the end of January. Base the training in sessions on your goal time. I will include a 5 mile, 10km and 10 mile option as those seem to be the popular races.

This weeks plan is:

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thur|Fri|Sat|Sun|
|3 mile easy|rest|5 miles easy with strides or session*|2 miles recovery|4m easy |LSR (10-12 miles or session*)|


For the 10k'ers: 1 mile warm up, 6 x 1 mile @ goal pace (s minute jog recoveries), 1 mile cool down.


Good luck with it!!

Hi Meno for the 10k'ers is it 2 minute jog recoveries between reps?

menoscemo

Willie42 wrote: »

Hi Meno for the 10k'ers is it 2 minute jog recoveries between reps?

Sorry, s should mean 3 Edited original post.

miguelk

menoscemo wrote: »

Now you (mostly) all have an idea about current fitness it is probably a good idea to reassess training paces.
Simply Plug your race time from this weekend into the McMillan calculator and up on the right will pop predicted time for other distances and below that training paces.

Most importantly you will see your ideal Easy/recovery/Long run paces based on current fitness.
E.G. Dilbert75 ran a 1:38:40 half, so his easy pace is now 8-9 min/mile and recovery is 9-9:45/mile.
As you can see you are afforded a wide range for these paces, but don't feel under pressure to push the high end, just try to keep approximately within the parameters. If your body feel like going a little slower, don't be afraid to do so.

Another interesting feature of McMillan is the predicted race times for other distances. Use this to set a goal for the next race. Factor in a little improvement.

Hi Meno (or others if you can help), head is fairly melted trying to figure this out.

Going on my Max HR from the 5k[185] my easy paced runs would be 135BPM.

My easy paced runs would then be 10 min/mile. (I know this because I was training easy pace aiming for 140 BPM up until now)

McMillan (based on 5k time) says easy should be 07:33 - 08:47

Any reason/explanation why the would be so different? I know they are just genaral guidelines but there is a massive difference in the 2 training paces.

Should I just pick one method and go with it?

Or do you think the above suggests the MaxHR on the 5k is bogus and my MaxHR could be higher?

OR....could it mean that I am quite aerobically unfit given that my actual pace at Max - 50 is so compartively slow and that if I got fitter my 135 BPM should come down to McMillan's suggested times.

Thanks.

menoscemo

miguelk wrote: »

Hi Meno (or others if you can help), head is fairly melted trying to figure this out.

Going on my Max HR from the 5k[185] my easy paced runs would be 135BPM.

My easy paced runs would then be 10 min/mile. (I know this because I was training easy pace aiming for 140 BPM up until now)

McMillan (based on 5k time) says easy should be 07:33 - 08:47

Any reason/explanation why the would be so different? I know they are just genaral guidelines but there is a massive difference in the 2 training paces.

Should I just pick one method and go with it?

Or do you think the above suggests the MaxHR on the 5k is bogus and my MaxHR could be higher?

OR....could it mean that I am quite aerobically unfit given that my actual pace at Max - 50 is so compartively slow and that if I got fitter my 135 BPM should come down to McMillan's suggested times.

Thanks.

Your max HR is likely to be a bit higher.
That said your 5k time by Mcmillan is probably a little skewed as well. At a beginner stage you tend to do relatively much better over shorter distances...

I would just go with one method and stick with it. I was putting in the Mcmillan calculator predictions in the hopes that it would convince people my 'go slow' advice was right. I see it has backfired somewhat :pac: I have no problem with people going even a little slower than McMillan says for their easy runs. It obviously hasn't done people harm so far (if it ain't broke don't fix it). That said, 10 min/mile seems a bit slow for you so stick to 140 bpm maybe?

Yes, the idea of training by HR is that as you get fitter the pace you run at a certain HR gets faster and faster, your pace at higher HRs will also get faster (even though you are not parctising them much). So probably best for you to stick with what you have been doing. It seems to have been working so far!!

FiiFii

Bit late posting as only got back from Wexford yesterday evening (girls night away after the half, bit of a manic weekend!)

I see my news is out there;) – checked official results and 2.00.06, bit of a killer that only 7 seconds and would have gotten sub 2hrs but seen as its over 6 mins better than my Sept half I think I’ll be happy with it for now Plus, whilst doesn’t count officially, according to the Garmin I beat my previous bests for 5k, 10k & 10 miles during the race (those pacers really keep you on your toes....) :eek:

Well done everyone else who ran it – all seem to have done really well (despite what I found to be a tough course….I’m spoiled in Dublin, not very hilly round my parts..). Meno – your ‘get back on track from DCM’ plan seemed to work a treat for us all (so you are now my running guru and I will do whatever you say.. )
Oh and big thanks to Rasher_m & Lizzie_C who on our Phoenix park run 2 weeks ago gave me the confidence to try with the 2hr pacers!


Race report
Got a bit lost in the morning trying to get to Woodies (some lovely(!) person sent me in the wrong direction ) so got a warm up jog in wandering around the back roads trying to make it there for quarter past seen as I’d no clue where to go next if didn’t see any boardies……. Then had that moment of ‘do I just ask people are they boardsies and risk the weird looks....’ but luckily blockic spotted me (Neon Orange hat def stands out!) and great to meet Career_move & docjewel. Bit of a dash to the start line for me and docjwel seen as I was foostering around at the bag drop so well warmed up for the start!!

Got in bit behind the 2hr pacers figuring see how long can stand it. Knew needed 9.10 pace to get me in 2hrs but they were at bout 8.45 for first couple of miles…. Might be comfortable for a lot of people here but faster than my 5K pace on last wk’s parkrun….:eek: Caught up behind the pacer and she said she was buying us time for ‘the hills’ which kinda scared me then… Lots of great supporters along initial route of the city and the first long road. An enthusiastic supporter appeared twice along same section shouting at us ‘whatever you do, don’t lose those balloons..’ so tried my best.. That first steep hill was a killer though.. had to drop back and stop for bout 15 seconds as thought gonna be sick.. slow jogged up the rest then pushed on a bit to catch up with the pacer…. After that its a blur for a while but remember seemed like every time I started to feel even the slightest bit comfortable, another hilly bit would loom (I seriously need to get some hill training over the winter as just lose my pace completely on these).

Meno – your ‘its supposed to hurt’ piece inspired me like did the others, kept repeating that to myself and while didn’t take the pain away it did make me feel bad slowing up for it so kept on ploughing on. Lost the pacers about 8 miles unfortunately but group of similar paced people around so tried to stick with them. Soooo happy when lovely supporters cheered us up by announcing we were on the last hill of the course (I’d have thanked you if had any breath at that point….). Hit the 10 mile mark in 1.30 so knew if could keep going I should get the time. Started to feel cramps in my calves at that point – got me v worried as never a problem before, not even in DCM. Opened a 2nd gel hoping might help give me a last boost of energy and focused on keeping just behind one of the girls (I think I was breathing down her neck a bit, oops). That last mile around the nature reserve was the worst though – annoyed with myself now but had to stop a few times. Made a big difference not having any crowds around to cheer you on, found it sooo hard to get up any energy for a final push until came round that last corner and could see everyone and the finish line. Crossed over, stopped the Garmin and then almost keeled over….. blockic & docjewel were one the sidelines to congratulate me which was great (thanks guys!). Chilled out with the guys in sports hall for a bit (felt like I was back in school..) then docjewel v nicely gave me lift back to city centre.

Definitely my toughest race to date in that I was struggling the whole way through (marathon was comfortableish until the 19 mile mark). Halfway through though I did tell myself this was utter madness and I was never again doing a race, never mind a marathon but obviously I’ve gotten over that now… Rewarded myself on Sat night then with takeway and lots of homemade cocktails with the girls (I decided lots of alcohol the only way to stay awake and seemed to work). Plus vague recollections of a ‘plank off’ at one stage in the night that I won.. (in fairness it was an easy win, don’t think I’d fair the same against people on here). That’s prob my last race in Ireland now till DCM 13 (fingers crossed be able to train for that while away..) so glad went well. Best of luck to everyone on their 2013 goals!!!

ncmc

A soggy eight miles for me yesterday morning, I got drenched running in my local forest, that’s karma coming back to me for missing Waterford, I ended up running in the worst weather of the weekend! Pretty uneventful run all in all, I did come across the Clare hurling team on an outdoor pursuit day. Not exactly sure what they were doing, seemed to consist mainly of running while carrying heavy things, rolling around in the mud and getting shouted at. Still, it broke up the monotony of the run, Libby had a good sniff of the lads doing press ups as she passed by (Libby being my dog – not some pervert I run with that goes round sniffing sweaty hurlers!)

Set my alarm to get up and get today’s run out of the way…. Yeah, you can imagine how that went. I need some of the beans that Career Move seems to be full of!

Wondering how to tackle the training this week, don’t know when my next race will be. I am definitely not going to make Dungarvan due to a Christening, I’ve entered the Ballycotton 10, but that’s not until March, so would like to get a race in before that. The only race I can see that would suit would be the Bantry 10 mile road race on Jan 12th. Not sure about it, it’s a bit of a trek for me and it’s also very hilly, so wondering if it would be a bad choice as the first race after DCM. What do you think?

blockic

ncmc wrote: »

I need some of the beans that Career Move seems to be full of!

No you don't. Us non-morning runners get on just fine!:)

ncmc wrote:

The only race I can see that would suit would be the Bantry 10 mile road race on Jan 12th. Not sure about it, it’s a bit of a trek for me and it’s also very hilly, so wondering if it would be a bad choice as the first race after DCM. What do you think?

Bantry would be a long trek alright, would nearly be faster going to Dublin!

Check out http://www.runmountjuliet.ie/ option of either a 10km or Half Marathon. 16th Feb, Would be closer to you than Bantry.

Gavlor

Fiifii, don't think you're the only one to find Saturday tough. It was without doubt my hardest race of the year. Really tough going but well done for digging in and pulling out a pb

scriba

ncmc wrote: »

The only race I can see that would suit would be the Bantry 10 mile road race on Jan 12th.

Is that the Mealagh valley race? If it is, do you have a link for the 2013 race? Thanks in advance!

ncmc

blockic wrote: »

No you don't. Us non-morning runners get on just fine!:)



Bantry would be a long trek alright, would nearly be faster going to Dublin!

Check out http://www.runmountjuliet.ie/ option of either a 10km or Half Marathon. 16th Feb, Would be closer to you than Bantry.

But I’d love to be sitting in work all smug now knowing I had today’s run out of the way! Instead I have another soggy run in the cold and dark tonight dragging a reluctant dog round the town on a lead! :mad: I hate to say it, but I think CM may have the right idea with this early running lark!

I did think about Mount Juliet, you’re right, it’s much nearer to me than Bantry. It’s a bit steep at €40 for a half :eek: (I should also mention that I’m a bit cheap about stuff like this)

scriba wrote: »

Is that the Mealagh valley race? If it is, do you have a link for the 2013 race? Thanks in advance!

Scriba, I am not sure if I am having a senior moment or not, but I’m sure I saw it on the AAI website over the weekend and that it was on January 12th, but now I can’t see any sign of it! So I’m not sure if A) I imagined it or the information has been taken down Can’t seem to find any information on the 2013 race at all, so maybe it’s not going ahead?

coalshed

Regarding January races, has anyone any experience of The Great Heath 10k, which takes place near Portlaoise on 20th of January?

http://www.runireland.com/events/great-heath-10k

Sounds like it may be suitable for Dublin/Mid-land located folks.

scriba

ncmc wrote: »

Scriba, I am not sure if I am having a senior moment or not, but I’m sure I saw it on the AAI website over the weekend and that it was on January 12th, but now I can’t see any sign of it! So I’m not sure if A) I imagined it or the information has been taken down Can’t seem to find any information on the 2013 race at all, so maybe it’s not going ahead?

No worries, I'm having a senior month. I did a bit of searching, and there was one on Feb 12th this year past, which might be one and the same thing? I'll just have to pencil it in and keep an eye on the cork running blog! I'd say it's just one of those low-key races, rather than it being cancelled. Hopefully!

blockic

ncmc wrote: »

I think CM may have the right idea with this early running lark!

Nah, bed > early morning runs = fact

ncmc wrote:

I did think about Mount Juliet, you’re right, it’s much nearer to me than Bantry. It’s a bit steep at €40 for a half :eek: (I should also mention that I’m a bit cheap about stuff like this)

That is steep, didnt check the price as I won't be doing it. AC races are much better value and I prefer going them. The money is going to the right place instead of commerically driven races that are only after profit.

If AC's can do it for 20-25 (Like Waterford), 40 is just over the top. Unless 15 per entry is going to charity, which I very much doubt.

blockic

How is everyone looking in their new boardsAC tops? :cool: