DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

AdpRo

Been away since Raheny on Sunday so didn't get a chance to post, despite the conditions I was delighted to get under 40mins by the skin of my teeth, cheers for the sessions Meno, I think they really helped with the fitness and after 3 mile when I was begining to feel it I kept saying to myself only one 2 mile interval left, you've done loads of these in training!! So a PB by over 11 mins (doesn't really count as the last time I ran a 5 mile race was almost 5 years ago when I had just started running! Still nice to hit the first 2013 target nice and early in the year.


Distance|PB 31/12/12|2013 Aim|Current PB
5K | 23:47 | 22:xx | 23:47
5M | 50:54 | 39:xx | 39:38
10K | 54:31 | 49:xx | 54:31
10M | 93:11 | 89:xx | 93:11
13.1M | 2:01:53 | 1:59:xx | 2:01:53
26.2M | 4:39:04 | 4:14:xx | 4:39:01


Plan on now doing a 10 mile and 1/2 marathon in the next couple of months. Meno would you be able to post all of the 10 mile sessions that you advised here in 1 post so as I can continue to follow them for the next few weeks?

ecoli

RedRunner wrote: »

Impressive number of consecutive days running. But just out of curiosity, I've read a lot that rest days are very important so how do you reconcile that with your approach? Is it regulation of the intensity, making sure there are some very easy runs thrown in there too or something else?

Sorry I know I am a little late in this one only came across it. I think the problem here is people use rest and recovery interchangeably. You can recover sufficiently without actually taking the day off.

There are a few different approaches to this that people take in there training:

1) Complete rest - allowing the body to adapt with no stress what so ever

2) Cross trainining - focus on working muscles at low intensity that you normally dont use in running. This gives muscles complete recovery that you normally use during running while still getting some other form of exercise (swimming, elliptical machine, cycling, yoga, core are a few that people use)

3) run short distance and slow - This increases bloodflow into the legs which helps flush out toxins within the muscles and allows supply of fresh oxygenated blood into the muscles to help repair micro tears withing the muscles caused by intense training. This is the option that I normally profess to athletes however it is something that has to be built into as natural progression of mileage and training. You also need a strict discipline in apply this in your training and not run your recovery runs too fast. This is effectively as slow as a gentle walk pace in terms of effort. To give you and idea of what I am talking about I will just give you an example of the kinda paces I am talking about

76 min HM runner
HM pace: 5.47 per mile
Easy pace7.00-7.40 per mile
Recovery Pace8.30-9.30 min pace

You also need to keep this short. You are not recovering if you are running +60 min regardless what pace you are going. Generally the advice dictates 45 min at an absolute maximum but I would go so far as to say if you are relatively new to running (in your first 3 years of running) I would not push this more than 20 min

menoscemo

Weetabix wrote: »

Plan on now doing a 10 mile and 1/2 marathon in the next couple of months. Meno would you be able to post all of the 10 mile sessions that you advised here in 1 post so as I can continue to follow them for the next few weeks?

I am glad to hear it went well

The structure of the 10 mile sessions was basically the same as the 5 mile only the intervals are longer.
Off the top of my head the 4 10 mile sessions were: 3 x 2 miles; 4 x 2 miles; 2 x 2 miles + 1 x 3 miles and finally 3 x 3 miles.
If you have longer than 4 weeks you can add extra 'steps' (e.g. 1x 2 miles + 2 x 3 miles as the 4th session) alternatively you could use filler sessions such as 10 x 400m @ 3k pace or 6 x 800m @ 5k pace).

The basis of all the workouts was the Mcmillan 'best 10k workout' which you can read here and here

For a half you could try a similar structure with slightly longer intervals or just simply build up to running 6-7 miles continuosuly at HMP in training (build up the number of miles you do at this pace week on week on your session days).

KillianByrne

Runchick wrote: »

Just entered the Great Limerick Run :eek:, last day at the early bird rate if anyone's thinking about it

Let all the fast guys off & we can keep each other company!

Gavlor

ecoli wrote: »

Sorry I know I am a little late in this one only came across it. I think the problem here is people use rest and recovery interchangeably. You can recover sufficiently without actually taking the day off.

There are a few different approaches to this that people take in there training:

1) Complete rest - allowing the body to adapt with no stress what so ever

2) Cross trainining - focus on working muscles at low intensity that you normally dont use in running. This gives muscles complete recovery that you normally use during running while still getting some other form of exercise (swimming, elliptical machine, cycling, yoga, core are a few that people use)

3) run short distance and slow - This increases bloodflow into the legs which helps flush out toxins within the muscles and allows supply of fresh oxygenated blood into the muscles to help repair micro tears withing the muscles caused by intense training. This is the option that I normally profess to athletes however it is something that has to be built into as natural progression of mileage and training. You also need a strict discipline in apply this in your training and not run your recovery runs too fast. This is effectively as slow as a gentle walk pace in terms of effort. To give you and idea of what I am talking about I will just give you an example of the kinda paces I am talking about

76 min HM runner
HM pace: 5.47 per mile
Easy pace7.00-7.40 per mile
Recovery Pace8.30-9.30 min pace

You also need to keep this short. You are not recovering if you are running +60 min regardless what pace you are going. Generally the advice dictates 45 min at an absolute maximum but I would go so far as to say if you are relatively new to running (in your first 3 years of running) I would not push this more than 20 min

The paces are interesting. As cocky as this sounds, I really struggle to keep the pace of recovery/slow runs outside 8 mpm. I always seem to find myself subconsciously speeding up. Any good tips for moderating the pace (see what I did there?!)

ecoli

Gavlor wrote: »

The paces are interesting. As cocky as this sounds, I really struggle to keep the pace of recovery/slow runs outside 8 mpm. I always seem to find myself subconsciously speeding up. Any good tips for moderating the pace (see what I did there?!)

I can understand what you mean it was something that took me a while to get used to also but like anything your body does adapt.

To put this into perspective this was a notion that my ex coach introduced me to. He himself is a 2.16 marathon runner yet often ran with me and at the start I was running too fast for him at 7.40 pace on his recovery runs.

Few things which can help try slow the pace down until your body becomes used to it;

1) run with someone who normally runs at the paces you are aiming to achieve. This can be a good chance to take the OH out for a gentle trot and spend some time if they are looking to keep fit etc, or bring the kid out with you

2) bring the dog out for a bit of exercise should slow your pace down.

What you are saying about pace is not cocky at all in fact nearly the opposite. We become so fearful of losing fitness or not getting the best out of a run that we actually can't slow it down

Its one thing to be able to push through the pain but an altogether different minset to have the confidence in your fitness and training to slow it down and stick to the plan or even take a day off when there is a legit reason that will benefit the overall goals. Every mile should have a purpose and the best runners are those who know when to run hard, and when to run easy

Gavlor

ecoli wrote: »

I can understand what you mean it was something that took me a while to get used to also but like anything your body does adapt.

To put this into perspective this was a notion that my ex coach introduced me to. He himself is a 2.16 marathon runner yet often ran with me and at the start I was running too fast for him at 7.40 pace on his recovery runs.

Few things which can help try slow the pace down until your body becomes used to it;

1) run with someone who normally runs at the paces you are aiming to achieve. This can be a good chance to take the OH out for a gentle trot and spend some time if they are looking to keep fit etc, or bring the kid out with you

2) bring the dog out for a bit of exercise should slow your pace down.

What you are saying about pace is not cocky at all in fact nearly the opposite. We become so fearful of losing fitness or not getting the best out of a run that we actually can't slow it down

Its one thing to be able to push through the pain but an altogether different minset to have the confidence in your fitness and training to slow it down and stick to the plan or even take a day off when there is a legit reason that will benefit the overall goals. Every mile should have a purpose and the best runners are those who know when to run hard, and when to run easy

Thanks for that.

Ps, taking rest days comes naturally to me.... Waaayyyyy too naturally!

Gavlor

7 miles tonight @ 7.07 mpm burning 707 calories!!

Guess what lotto number I'm doing in the bookies tomorrow??!

career_move

Gavlor wrote: »

7 miles tonight @ 7.07 mpm burning 707 calories!!

Guess what lotto number I'm doing in the bookies tomorrow??!

Em is it 8?

Gavlor

career_move wrote: »

Em is it 8?

F€ck... Now I'll have to do 8 aswell!

Runchick

KillianByrne wrote: »

Let all the fast guys off & we can keep each other company!

Sounds like an excellent plan :-)

RedRunner

ecoli wrote: »

Sorry I know I am a little late in this one only came across it. I think the problem here is people use rest and recovery interchangeably. You can recover sufficiently without actually taking the day off.

There are a few different approaches to this that people take in there training:

1) Complete rest - allowing the body to adapt with no stress what so ever

2) Cross trainining - focus on working muscles at low intensity that you normally dont use in running. This gives muscles complete recovery that you normally use during running while still getting some other form of exercise (swimming, elliptical machine, cycling, yoga, core are a few that people use)

3) run short distance and slow - This increases bloodflow into the legs which helps flush out toxins within the muscles and allows supply of fresh oxygenated blood into the muscles to help repair micro tears withing the muscles caused by intense training. This is the option that I normally profess to athletes however it is something that has to be built into as natural progression of mileage and training. You also need a strict discipline in apply this in your training and not run your recovery runs too fast. This is effectively as slow as a gentle walk pace in terms of effort. To give you and idea of what I am talking about I will just give you an example of the kinda paces I am talking about

76 min HM runner
HM pace: 5.47 per mile
Easy pace7.00-7.40 per mile
Recovery Pace8.30-9.30 min pace

You also need to keep this short. You are not recovering if you are running +60 min regardless what pace you are going. Generally the advice dictates 45 min at an absolute maximum but I would go so far as to say if you are relatively new to running (in your first 3 years of running) I would not push this more than 20 min

Thanks ecoli

Appreciate the effort that went into this post. This is definitely excellent information for new runners like me trying to find our way on the road to improvement.

Willie42

Runchick wrote: »

Just entered the Great Limerick Run :eek:, last day at the early bird rate if anyone's thinking about it

Did you enter via Great Limerick Run web page - payment didn't seem secure - there was no https:// thingy or lock when you enter card details??

Gavlor

Willie42 wrote: »

Did you enter via Great Limerick Run web page - payment didn't seem secure - there was no https:// thingy or lock when you enter card details??

Nor did they ask for ccv number..... Strange one

Dilbert75

Never copped that - aw crap. Better watch the Visa bill.

snowman224

Im not running but my techy curiosity got the better of me.
The part where you enter your details seems to be just a frame of https://eventmaster.ie

I'd slightly more confident that its secure but still odd that it didnt ask for the 3 security digits....

upthe19th

A good physio session and 2 days of rest have me back running again, thank god

4 miles last night at 7:21 pace
6 miles easy this evening

Going to attack one of meno's intermediate 10k sessions on saturday to see how I'm fixed for enniscorthy 10k next sunday week.

LSR planned for sunday.

Runchick

Willie42 wrote: »

Did you enter via Great Limerick Run web page - payment didn't seem secure - there was no https:// thingy or lock when you enter card details??

Yip I sure did. Doh I'm useless with things like this, hopefully its ok

KillianByrne

snowman224 wrote: »

Im not running but my techy curiosity got the better of me.
The part where you enter your details seems to be just a frame of https://eventmaster.ie

I'd slightly more confident that its secure but still odd that it didnt ask for the 3 security digits....

Eventmaster is the organising arm behind the Limerick Run. It is owned by the 'Race Director' (or a lad with some similar title).

Gavlor

Did my first ever speed session today. 6 * 800meters.

Went to my old football pitch for the first time in a year since I retired togged out and ready to go.... All that was missing was 21 other players, a ref and ball!!

Did a couple of Laps to warm up followed by a lung busting 800 meters with an average hr of 179!

Did 5 more reps of that, taking a 30-40 second jog break in between each one.

Average mpm for the 4.8k was 5.45 (had the pace set at miles, lap set @ 800meters) average hr settled down to a more modest 159.

Tough session in the wind and the mud but I plan on doing it once a week, peaking at 9*800m

It better f€ckin help!

RayCun

You can take a longer break than that, 30/40 seconds is nothing. Try taking two minutes break, walking or jogging. And don't go mad on the first interval, you want them all to be within a few seconds of each other, but as fast as you can manage that.

Gavlor

RayCun wrote: »

You can take a longer break than that, 30/40 seconds is nothing. Try taking two minutes break, walking or jogging. And don't go mad on the first interval, you want them all to be within a few seconds of each other, but as fast as you can manage that.

Anything that'll make it a bit easier. Cheers

Steroo

Cracking morning for a run! 12.5m done at ease. Felt so much better than the evening run home from work! Avg pace 9:28 and did a fast mile toward the end of 7:48 (fast for me). You forget how good the sun shining can make you feel, especially along the coast.
I try to say hello/nod to other runners, but I'm finding people less receptive! Then Im muttering 'fu€k you then' as I continue on.

It's amazing how little I feel any strain or tiredness in the legs since I started this chirunning. So if anyone hasn't had a read and gets reoccurring injuries then its worth a look. Jump to chapter 4 for the technique stuff.
Now I'm off for a swim with my girls 😄

Murph_D

StephenRooney wrote: »

I try to say hello/nod to other runners, but I'm finding people less receptive! Then Im muttering 'fu€k you then' as I continue on.

Ha - I've noticed a general lack of noddiness too. But if you run by me you'll get a nod or a wave.

Steroo

murphd77 wrote: »

Ha - I've noticed a general lack of noddiness too. But if you run by me you'll get a nod or a wave.

I spose a hug is out of the question?

upthe19th

After a 6 miler at 8:40 pace yesterday, a long work week and a late night I was regretting committing to this today. I told my body I was posting it, so cop on. I set up the Garmin and got suited and booted.

Meno suggested an intermediate session to sharpen up for enniscorthy 10k. Sound advice, thanks meno.

The plan was:
0.5 mile warm up, 4 x 1 mile at 10k race pace with 4 minute recoveries and 1 x 2 mile at race pace with a cool down.

The outcome:

0.5 mile warm up @ 9:09
Mile 1 = 6:57
4 min recovery @ 8:38
Mile 2 = 7:04
4 min recovery @ 8:27
Mile 3 = 7:01
4 min recovery @ 8:37
Mile 4 = 7:09
4 min recovery @ 8:29
Mile 5 = 7:06
Mile 6 = 7:11
Cool down to finish at 9 miles @ 9:07

It will be close to get under 44 minutes I reckon.

LSR tomorrow with Dilbert(46.6028)*, looking forward to it.

*Formerly 75, before mile conversion:D

Dilbert75

upthe19th wrote: »

LSR tomorrow with Dilbert(46.6028)*, looking forward to it.

*Formerly 75, before mile conversion:D

How did you hear my prison number?;)

blockic

Great session there upthe19th. Sounds like you are in great shape!!

upthe19th

Dilbert75 wrote: »

How did you hear my prison number?;)

All part of my gradual plan to get you over to the dark side wonderful world of the mile

upthe19th

blockic wrote: »

Great session there upthe19th. Sounds like you are in great shape!!

Thanks blocky. I'm getting there I think.

I need to push myself harder in training. I'm spending too much time in my comfort zone in some of my training and then expecting miracles when I race:o.

You're half way there...know a few guys heading to rotterdam too. The training your end is pretty savage.

Oh to be young, with more hair, no kids.....ah crap here come the tears again....