DCM 2012 Graduates - the next step

blockic

Runchick wrote: »

14 miles at 5.30am this morning to blow the cobwebs off a boozy weekend. Feels good to be back out there

I'm glad that Gavlor made my feelings known on this matter. Utter Madness.:eek:

coalshed

scriba wrote: »

Hi all, apologies for what's going to be a long and confused post!

For those of you doing P&D at the moment, yet racing at the weekend (I'm doing Ballycotton 10), what alterations, if any, do you plan to make to your running schedule this week? I want to stay on course with the marathon programme, since that's the main goal this year, but I don't want to rock up to the start line on Sunday absolutely knackered either. Any suggestions?

Plan called for this week is:
Tue: 9m (w/ 5m @ LT); Wed: 5m recovery; Thurs 10m easy; Sat 5m recovery; Sunday 16 miles (w/10 miles @ PMP).

Swapping sessions around this week seems like a bit of a nightmare, I'd probably count the race as the LT session, and move the long run to Tuesday. And it would still probably leave me wrecked.

Rather than try shift things around this week, I'm thinking of swapping this week with next week, which is a step back week involving no LT or PMP runs at all. [8 mile easy with strides; 5 mile recovery; 8 mile easy; 4 mile recovery; 12 mile longish run]. But before I commit to that, just checking what other people might be doing, in case I'm missing something!

Thanks for reading

I'm moving my days around this week so I did my toughest run - 12 miles with 7 at hmp - last night. I'll do 6 recovery tonight and 12 on Wednesday followed by an easy 5 on Saturday before racing the half on Sunday.

Hopefully front-loading the miles will leave me somewhat fresh for Sunday but at this stage I'll be surprised if I'm rested enough to match my pb, I don't mind though as the priority is the marathon.

scriba

ncmc wrote: »

My plan was Mon – 5, Tues – 9, Wed – Rest, Thurs – 16, Fri – Rest, Sat – 5 and then the race on Sunday.

I'm so lazy that when I was looking at rearranging the week, I vetoed any runs trying to sneak onto my rest days! They're untouchable! :P

The 5k should be very enjoyable. It's great to see other people getting into it. One of my brothers has started making sounds about getting started on the C25K, I'm trying to gently push him to do it without taking over the whole thing. But I hope he starts!

New runner

That's week 3 out of 6 tues eve hills sessions done!! 8 miles in total! 10 mins (1 mile ) warm up following by some dynamic stretching n then 4 x 1.5k on a steep hill doing 75- 92% HR! Very tough but think getting easier as the weeks go on! Then did 25 mins slow run cool down n some static stretching. Hate hill work but def helps stamina etc. also doing with big group def helps n always 2 people help coach up the hill at the steepest parts so that helps!!
Few miles slow recovery tomoro morn b4 work!!
Though def won't b anywhere near 5.30am lol!

RedRunner

New runner wrote: »

That's week 3 out of 6 tues eve hills sessions done!! 8 miles in total! 10 mins (1 mile ) warm up following by some dynamic stretching n then 4 x 1.5k on a steep hill doing 75- 92% HR! Very tough but think getting easier as the weeks go on! Then did 25 mins slow run cool down n some static stretching. Hate hill work but def helps stamina etc. also doing with big group def helps n always 2 people help coach up the hill at the steepest parts so that helps!!
Few miles slow recovery tomoro morn b4 work!!
Though def won't b anywhere near 5.30am lol!

What's that? Can you give an example? Please excuse the ignorance!
Presume static stretching is your standard stretching

New runner

RedRunner wrote: »

What's that? Can you give an example? Please excuse the ignorance!
Presume static stretching is your standard stretching

Yeah sorry , I had to ask too initially!
It's during movement , like lunges, high knee kicks rotating arms forward n back , jumping jacks, that sorta thing!

RedRunner

Did a club run tonight. Plan was to do 8 miles at easy pace and maybe do some @8.30 which is planned/hoped for pace at HM on Paddy's day.

Well to say it didn't go to plan is an understatement. StephenR couldnt make tonight so I was on my own in terms of being a newbie. There weren't many people down so went out with a two others who were clearly at a different level to me. Felt like I had to try stay with them as long as I could though otherwise what was the point just turning up and running on my own. I've joined the club so club runs aren't meant to be easy I suppose.

Anyway stuck with them for first three and then one of the group went off at faster pace .I was never going to go with him. So I stuck with the girl that was left and we kept together for another 1.5 until she turned around and headed back home as she lived in that area and it suited her rather than head back to clubhouse. So I was on my own for rest of run.Made a conscious decision to slow down slightly but try and keep it going reasonably fast to make it a bit of a session for me. I'd have tomorrow as rest day I told myself. Kept it going to end and was pretty tired after it. Fourth day in row running which started with XC race and finished with a run on the fast side for me. I think the splits tell their own story.I'm quite impressed with them though if I do say so myself(for my level anyway)

7.54 miles @ 8.12avg

Splits: 8:37(traffic lights), 7:56, 8:15, 8:15, 8:08, 8:22, 8:19, (8:08)

If I can keep that pace for 7.5 surely I can keep 8.30 pace for 13.1 on Mar17th????? I know it doesn't work like that but I'm feeling positive about it especially if I can get two more good running weeks in between now and then.

blockic

RedRunner wrote: »

If I can keep that pace for 7.5 surely I can keep 8.30 pace for 13.1 on Mar17th????? I know it doesn't work like that but I'm feeling positive about it especially if I can get two more good running weeks in between now and then.

RR, you are surely right! Looks like this run tonight although not gone as planned has actually worked out better for you. You should have much more confidence now come for the HM and 8:30 pace will be no bother to you looking at that run.

I'd advise you to start off as planned with 8:30s and let it rip from mile 8/9 on, looks like you will have plenty in the tank looking at the above! You'll suprise yourself on the 17th me thinks!:) Great run!

New runner

RedRunner wrote: »

Did a club run tonight. Plan was to do 8 miles at easy pace and maybe do some @8.30 which is planned/hoped for pace at HM on Paddy's day.

Well to say it didn't go to plan is an understatement. StephenR couldnt make tonight so I was on my own in terms of being a newbie. There weren't many people down so went out with a two others who were clearly at a different level to me. Felt like I had to try stay with them as long as I could though otherwise what was the point just turning up and running on my own. I've joined the club so club runs aren't meant to be easy I suppose.

Anyway stuck with them for first three and then one of the group went off at faster pace .I was never going to go with him. So I stuck with the girl that was left and we kept together for another 1.5 until she turned around and headed back home as she lived in that area and it suited her rather than head back to clubhouse. So I was on my own for rest of run.Made a conscious decision to slow down slightly but try and keep it going reasonably fast to make it a bit of a session for me. I'd have tomorrow as rest day I told myself. Kept it going to end and was pretty tired after it. Fourth day in row running which started with XC race and finished with a run on the fast side for me. I think the splits tell their own story.I'm quite impressed with them though if I do say so myself(for my level anyway)

7.54 miles @ 8.12avg

Splits: 8:37(traffic lights), 7:56, 8:15, 8:15, 8:08, 8:22, 8:19, (8:08)

If I can keep that pace for 7.5 surely I can keep 8.30 pace for 13.1 on Mar17th????? I know it doesn't work like that but I'm feeling positive about it especially if I can get two more good running weeks in between now and then.

That's fantastic running, well done , u will def have no bother running under 8.30's at HM! Though just remember the saying "train to run, don't run to train!" Don't overdo it in training r u will have burned yourself out for races n only do recovery runs for 1 day per mile raced, otherwise ur body won't recover n u more likely to get injured ! That's what we told anyway n nothing than recovery runs for 4 days b4 a race ( of which 1 recovery can/ shud include approx 5-8 x 20 secs strides at 400-800m pace) ! Not telling u what to do, just sharing advice we received at a meeting!

RedRunner

blockic wrote: »

RR, you are surely right! Looks like this run tonight although not gone as planned has actually worked out better for you. You should have much more confidence now come for the HM and 8:30 pace will be no bother to you looking at that run.

I'd advise you to start off as planned with 8:30s and let it rip from mile 8/9 on, looks like you will have plenty in the tank looking at the above! You'll suprise yourself on the 17th me thinks!:) Great run!

Thanks Blockic,feel good about tonights run. My fear though was that doing something like this a bit too soon after injury might be a bad thing, but seems It has worked out well for me and I have that one in the Bank now.

RedRunner

New runner wrote: »

That's fantastic running, well done , u will def have no bother running under 8.30's at HM! Though just remember the saying "train to run, don't run to train!" Don't overdo it in training r u will have burned yourself out for races n only do recovery runs for 1 day per mile raced, otherwise ur body won't recover n u more likely to get injured ! That's what we told anyway n nothing than recovery runs for 4 days b4 a race ( of which 1 recovery can/ shud include approx 5-8 x 20 secs strides at 400-800m pace) ! Not telling u what to do, just sharing advice we received at a meeting!

Thanks a lot NR...sounds like good advice.

blockic

New runner wrote: »

That's fantastic running, well done , u will def have no bother running under 8.30's at HM! Though just remember the saying "train to run, don't run to train!" Don't overdo it in training r u will have burned yourself out for races n only do recovery runs for 1 day per mile raced, otherwise ur body won't recover n u more likely to get injured ! That's what we told anyway n nothing than recovery runs for 4 days b4 a race ( of which 1 recovery can/ shud include approx 5-8 x 20 secs strides at 400-800m pace) ! Not telling u what to do, just sharing advice we received at a meeting!

What meeting was that may I ask? I'd say easy runs rather than recovery runs for 1 day per mile raced. For the first one or two yeah but after that general aerobic runs would be fine too.

Those strides seem very specific!!! Good advise though on taking it easy for a few days after a race.

rasher_m

blockic wrote: »

What meeting was that may I ask? I'd say easy runs rather than recovery runs for 1 day per mile raced. For the first one or two yeah but after that general aerobic runs would be fine too.

Those strides seem very specific!!! Good advise though on taking it easy for a few days after a race.

When did you turn pro :pac:

menoscemo

rasher_m wrote: »

When did you turn pro :pac:

Over the years this kind of thing has happened to many runners after reading P&D

blockic

rasher_m wrote: »

When did you turn pro :pac:

Yesterday! Nah, just think 2 weeks of just recovery paced runs after a HM would be a wasted 2nd week IMO. But its how the individual feels I suppose...

blockic

menoscemo wrote: »

Over the years this kind of thing has happened to many runners after reading P&D

I tell ya that bloody book brainwashes ya (as Gavlor says!), 60 mile weeks? I would have laughed at me doing that a couple of months back!

RedRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

Over the years this kind of thing has happened to many runners after reading P&D

It's funny you should mention P&D. I mentioned I might follow one of their plans for DCM tonight and on other occasions too and each time I've got a look like I have two heads or something. Are club runners generally not interested in running books like this and rather just listen to their coaches or is this reaction a bit unusual? It's like they've never heard of P&D which I thought was a bit unsusual given so much talk about it on these forums.

rasher_m

RedRunner wrote: »

It's funny you should mention P&D. I mentioned I might follow one of their plans for DCM tonight and on other occasions too and each time I've got a look like I have two heads or something. Are club runners generally not interested in running books like this and rather just listen to their coaches or is this reaction a bit unusual? It's like they've never heard of P&D which I thought was a bit unsusual given so much talk about it on these forums.

I don't know how popular it is, I went into Hughes & Hughes and Easons and neither had it in stock. Could've been the branches I went to.

blockic

RedRunner wrote: »

It's funny you should mention P&D. I mentioned I might follow one of their plans for DCM tonight and on other occasions too and each time I've got a look like I have two heads or something. Are club runners generally not interested in running books like this and rather just listen to their coaches or is this reaction a bit unusual? It's like they've never heard of P&D which I thought was a bit unsusual given so much talk about it on these forums.

Good question RR, I speak to club members round these parts now and again and they never heard of P&D.

rasher_m wrote: »

I don't know how popular it is, I went into Hughes & Hughes and Easons and neither had it in stock. Could've been the branches I went to.

Yeah, online would be your only option id say. I've yet to see in it a bookshop.

rasher_m

On a different note I went over to AK and bought the stick.
I don't know if its really any use either. I didn't feel a huge difference after using it. How did runners manage years ago before all these gimmicks and sports massages became so popular.
Then again I am seeing a lot of older athletes with gammy knees and hip replacements.
Maybe running on the grass and stretching regularly is the answer.

RedRunner

rasher_m wrote: »

On a different note I went over to AK and bought the stick.
I don't know if its really any use either. I didn't feel a huge difference after using it. How did runners manage years ago before all these gimmicks and sports massages became so popular.
Then again I am seeing a lot of older athletes with gammy knees and hip replacements.
Maybe running on the grass and stretching regularly is the answer.

There is an article in the current edition of Irish Runner which explores the barefoot running thing.Looks at both sides of the argument but It does mention somewhere in the piece that running barefoot on the grass even once a week for 20-30 mins can be very beneficial

rasher_m

RedRunner wrote: »

There is an article in the current edition of Irish Runner which explores the barefoot running thing.Looks at both sides of the argument but It does mention somewhere in the piece that running barefoot on the grass even once a week for 20-30 mins can be very beneficial

I can see where it may be beneficial but knowing my luck I would stand on glass or something sinister would happen.
I seen a guy in the Phoenix park bombing along bare foot and I thought he was nuts. Its really just a matter of when something is going to happen your feet rather than if.
There is running shoes now that try to emulate the bare foot running, isn't there?

RedRunner

rasher_m wrote: »

I can see where it may be beneficial but knowing my luck I would stand on glass or something sinister would happen.
I seen a guy in the Phoenix park bombing along bare foot and I thought he was nuts. Its really just a matter of when something is going to happen your feet rather than if.
There is running shoes now that try to emulate the bare foot running, isn't there?

That would be my fear too re glass or something worse.You'd have to be very careful where you pick your grass to run on. Yeah Vibram Fingers(Toes) are the ones that come to mind but I think there are a few of them around. I wouldn't be brave enough to try them.But I do remember I always preferred to run in socks/barefoot at school sports days when I was a kid. Always thought I ran faster like that:D

Steroo

blockic wrote: »

I'd advise you to start off as planned with 8:30s and let it rip from mile 8/9 on, looks like you will have plenty in the tank looking at the above! You'll suprise yourself on the 17th me thinks!:) Great run!

+1

Steroo

rasher_m wrote: »

On a different note I went over to AK and bought the stick.
I don't know if its really any use either. I didn't feel a huge difference after using it. How did runners manage years ago before all these gimmicks and sports massages became so popular.
Then again I am seeing a lot of older athletes with gammy knees and hip replacements.
Maybe running on the grass and stretching regularly is the answer.

I use it before and after every run. Went to physio for first time since nov and I was a lot less tight than I used to be (other factors too of course) but the stick is great on tight areas or for finding little tight spots you might not be aware of. Give us an update in few weeks!

New runner

blockic wrote: »

What meeting was that may I ask? I'd say easy runs rather than recovery runs for 1 day per mile raced. For the first one or two yeah but after that general aerobic runs would be fine too.

Those strides seem very specific!!! Good advise though on taking it easy for a few days after a race.

Blockie just a club meeting that was entitled "planning for the future" but as I said was just what we were told , I'm new to this game as only started running last April, May been my 1st run, however i do try to listen to what advise given n for me I feel this plan worked as I was delighted with running DCM in 3.58 when only running 6 months , n must say all the club achieved their target times , many a lot faster n many much slower. This is schedule from them that gives us the specific training. I wouldn't have a clue personally !!
http://www.inishowenac.com/images/Training/Periodization/SeniorTrainingSchedule.pdf

ncmc

rasher_m wrote: »

I can see where it may be beneficial but knowing my luck I would stand on glass or something sinister would happen.
I seen a guy in the Phoenix park bombing along bare foot and I thought he was nuts. Its really just a matter of when something is going to happen your feet rather than if.
There is running shoes now that try to emulate the bare foot running, isn't there?

You should read Born to Run by Christopher MacDougall Rasher, I’ve just finished it, it’s quite an interesting read. The premise of the book is that we evolved to run long distances in our bare feet or thin sandals and that what has caused the modern phenomenon of running related injuries is the fact that we are running in thick heeled trainers which are turning us into heel strikers rather than the optimal running style which is to strike with the middle foot. Running barefoot according to him is the most natural way to run and results in the fewest injuries. That is why there has been an increase in trainers like the Vibrams which are as near barefoot as possible.

I am a little sceptical to be honest. In the book, he is talking about trail running which I think involves shorter strides and also less running on hard roads and pavements. I am not sure that the Vibrams would be ideal for running 26 miles on roads. I know from experience that I am suffering from a lot more pain in my legs and joints since DCM since I am doing all my running on roads, previously I was doing all of my midweek runs and some of my LSR’s on a forest path and it was so much easier on the legs.

That said, I think there is something to be said for a trainer with a lower heel to toe ratio, there are some threads on this in the equipment forum and Amphibian King would be a proponent of less cushioning in the heel. I am due a new pair of trainers and am tempted to go for a little less cushioning in the heel. I don’t want to change too drastically before CCM, but I think I might try and gradually make the transition.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056778924

blockic

New runner wrote: »

Blockie just a club meeting that was entitled "planning for the future" but as I said was just what we were told , I'm new to this game as only started running last April, May been my 1st run, however i do try to listen to what advise given n for me I feel this plan worked as I was delighted with running DCM in 3.58 when only running 6 months , n must say all the club achieved their target times , many a lot faster n many much slower. This is schedule from them that gives us the specific training. I wouldn't have a clue personally !!
http://www.inishowenac.com/images/Training/Periodization/SeniorTrainingSchedule.pdf

That's a great marathon time New runner after only starting 6 months previous! fair play. I thought it might have been some public talk or something so thats why I asked/interested. Looks like there is a good operation going on up there!

Gavlor

blockic wrote: »

That's a great marathon time New runner after only starting 6 months previous! fair play. I thought it might have been some public talk or something so thats why I asked/interested. Looks like there is a good operation going on up there!

What did you do with your time before boards and professional running??!

blockic

Gavlor wrote: »

What did you do with your time before boards and professional running??!

Drank, watched TV and played golf! Makes ya think why I even bothered starting! :pac: