A warning about Renewable Energy

creedp

OssianSmyth wrote: »

It is already law that all new dwellings must have a minimum provision of renewable energy technology and must be reasonably well insulated. See Part L of the building regulations. http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,27316,en.pdf

Unfortunately these rules did not apply during the building boom as successive environment ministers considered that they would be a burden for the building industry.

Well my understanding is that they removed any grants that were previously available to install 'green' heating systems in houses which probably contributed to people skimping as much as possible in this area particularly when the de riguer green installation - the solar panel on roofs - has such a long payback. An engineer I know would argue such panels take up to 17 years to pay back in a typical home and probably would require replacement prior to payback.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609194/advanced-nuclear-finds-a-more-welcome-home-in-canada/?utm_campaign=technology_review&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social

Digging up an old thread because I think it's Relevant. MSR reactors just got a small step closer, but as I said before, this is the future for energy and Ireland needs to face up to the fact that while Wind is good when it blows and provides 65% of out total mix on a good day the total yearly supply is about 20% and we still have not any Solar PV on the grid , but fact is our energy demands are growing rapidly and more than we can keep up and with the Data centre projects in West Dublin consuming so much energy the Grid in Dublin is at breaking point so much so that Microsoft has to build their own power station until Eirgrid can catch up to power their massive mega data centre. Yes it's highly embarrassing for the country ! Now yes they need to upgrade the Grid more than generation shortage but the point is that our energy supply is growing considerably, then add electric cars.......

Do people remember the time when the ESb were begging us not to use so many Christmas lights and to only rin them a few hrs instead of the whole day ? thankfully LEDs considerably dropped this huge peak of consumption.

Small steps but hopefully it will lead to an abundant cheap and very safe , clean source of energy.

I really can't believe we were talking about this in 2012 almost 5 years exactly , where does the time go ?

LeinsterDub

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Small steps but hopefully it will lead to an abundant cheap and very safe , clean source of energy.

I really can't believe we were talking about this in 2012 almost 5 years exactly , where does the time go ?

Thorium is a pipe dream. In 5 years battery technology has made massive actual impact were as this is still now where to be seen.

server down

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/609194/advanced-nuclear-finds-a-more-welcome-home-in-canada/?utm_campaign=technology_review&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social

Digging up an old thread because I think it's Relevant. MSR reactors just got a small step closer, but as I said before, this is the future for energy and Ireland needs to face up to the fact that while Wind is good when it blows and provides 65% of out total mix on a good day the total yearly supply is about 20% and we still have not any Solar PV on the grid , but fact is our energy demands are growing rapidly and more than we can keep up and with the Data centre projects in West Dublin consuming so much energy the Grid in Dublin is at breaking point so much so that Microsoft has to build their own power station until Eirgrid can catch up to power their massive mega data centre. Yes it's highly embarrassing for the country ! Now yes they need to upgrade the Grid more than generation shortage but the point is that our energy supply is growing considerably, then add electric cars.......

Do people remember the time when the ESb were begging us not to use so many Christmas lights and to only rin them a few hrs instead of the whole day ? thankfully LEDs considerably dropped this huge peak of consumption.

Small steps but hopefully it will lead to an abundant cheap and very safe , clean source of energy.

I really can't believe we were talking about this in 2012 almost 5 years exactly , where does the time go ?

Or... add more wind generators.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

I really can't believe we were talking about this in 2012 almost 5 years exactly , where does the time go ?

The world and it's mother has been building MSR's since the 1950's

1940's - 1960's
https://public.ornl.gov/conferences/msr2015/pdf/Gehin%20-%20MSR%20Program%20History%20-%20rev%203.pdf

1960's - now
http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/molten-salt-reactors.aspx

the Grid in Dublin is at breaking point so much so that Microsoft has to build their own power station

18MW isn't that much and it's only temporary and the problem is not generating the power. The new substation at Grange Castle Business park is due to be operational in 2018/19

LeinsterDub

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Thorium is a pipe dream. In 5 years battery technology has made massive actual impact were as this is still now where to be seen.

Batteries need to be charged and the wind doesn't blow all the time.

server down wrote: »

Or... add more wind generators.

How much land do you want taken with turbines ?

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The world and it's mother has been building MSR's since the 1950's

1940's - 1960's
https://public.ornl.gov/conferences/msr2015/pdf/Gehin%20-%20MSR%20Program%20History%20-%20rev%203.pdf

1960's - now
http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/molten-salt-reactors.aspx


18MW isn't that much and it's only temporary and the problem is not generating the power. The new substation at Grange Castle Business park is due to be operational in 2018/19

But my point is that our requirement for energy is growing incredibly and will continue to do so, Data Centers consume enormous energy.

Now add to that electric cars, vans and home heating eventually. That's a biblical amount of energy and it won't all come from wind.

We should invest more in Solar PV. But even that along with wind will not produce all our energy needs.

Water John

To go carbon neutral will require a qudrupling of our generating capacity.
Thorium is ideally suited to meshing with intermittent renewables as its adjustable.

I support all varieties of renewables. A 3Mw turbine occupies about as much land as a house. Not an issue.
To compare, 3Mw solar occupies 15 acres.

You can't stuff turbines everywhere, it's unsightly.

MSR's can be made in as little as 1 Mw capacities switched on and off on demand, perfect for Ireland. Very efficient and very safe reactors.

Water John

You wont have many in Kildare/Carlow. Don't see them as unsightly on a hill. Very preferable to sitka spruce.

The amount of turbines can now only provide about 20% electricity, and to meet future requirements , that's an awful lot of turbines !

Capt'n Midnight

Proven nuclear technologies need massive subsidies, in the UK they require twice the market price average guaranteed for decades despite being only usable for base load.

And that's on top of a huge requirement for spinning reserve in case it goes offline.

And there's the capital cost, and the decommissioning costs, and the interest on those payments since you can't just rock up and install a nuclear plant overnight. ( That Finnish EPR might be producing grid power in 2019, maybe, the one in Flamanville will need pressure vessel repairs in 2024, it won't start tests until next year ) With wind and solar once you have planning permission you can be generating power in a matter of months.

There is also the huge opportunity cost. Because nuclear is reliant on dispatchable plant to meet peak demand, and needs grid connections to out of the way places. Wind and solar also need these.


MSR sounds good on paper. But it's old technology. It's not like they've discovered any new chemistry or physics lately that fundamentally changes the operating efficiency or economics. Instead for solar that's happening all the time. And for both solar and wind there are economies of scale. Seeing as how the trend in nuclear has been a gradual increase in reactor size to 1 GW - 1.6 GW I can't see how small reactors could be economically feasible. Especially since the smaller the reactor the more enriched the fuel needs to be and that's a whole heap of other security costs.

MSR reactors would cost substantially less to build and maintain. The Idea is you can scale MSR's to your requirements.

For Ireland a reactor of about 1Gw that can be turned on and off on demand would be perfect for backing up renewable energy with no Nox or PM emissions in the process, clean energy. And very little waste compared to current reactors.

Yes problems remain, and because it's old tech means nothing, the Sun is 5 Billion years old, so does that mean we should we not use the light from that old star for some energy ? The world badly needs this technology sooner rather than later.

whatstherush

Deleted User wrote: »

MSR reactors would cost substantially less to build and maintain. The Idea is you can scale MSR's to your requirements.

For Ireland a reactor of about 1Gw that can be turned on and off on demand would be perfect for backing up renewable energy with no Nox or PM emissions in the process, clean energy. And very little waste compared to current reactors.

Yes problems remain, and because it's old tech means nothing, the Sun is 5 Billion years old, so does that mean we should we not use the light from that old star for some energy ? The world badly needs this technology sooner rather than later.

We can't even build a data center in Athenry without ****ing the pants, do you really think a Nuclear Reactor is going to get planning any where in Ireland.

Also your claim about Wind Turbines going up every where to meet demand is spurious. The individual generators on the turbines are increasing in capacity all the time. Also Statoil are building off shore turbines that are just teathered to the sea bed, what the problem with deploying these beyond the horizon off the west coast?

LeinsterDub

Deleted User wrote: »

Batteries need to be charged and the wind doesn't blow all the time.

Wind , Solar, Tidal all combined with Battery to smooth out the edges. Far more realistic than Thorium.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a27183/kites-future-of-wind-power/

LeinsterDub

Water John wrote: »

To go carbon neutral will require a qudrupling of our generating capacity.
Thorium is ideally suited to meshing with intermittent renewables as its adjustable.

I support all varieties of renewables. A 3Mw turbine occupies about as much land as a house. Not an issue.
To compare, 3Mw solar occupies 15 acres.

By ideally suited you mean not currently commercially viable?

goat2

creedp wrote: »

Well my understanding is that they removed any grants that were previously available to install 'green' heating systems in houses which probably contributed to people skimping as much as possible in this area particularly when the de riguer green installation - the solar panel on roofs - has such a long payback. An engineer I know would argue such panels take up to 17 years to pay back in a typical home and probably would require replacement prior to payback.

It would be a great benefit if grants were to be available, or renewable energy were to be more affordable to all, at the moment I do find it too expensive to change tank and have toe solar, would love to have it, but it is out of my price range, should be something brought in to make it more affordable, with all this shouting about global warming, our governments are not helping in this field

Outkast_IRE

whatstherush wrote: »

We can't even build a data center in Athenry without ****ing the pants, do you really think a Nuclear Reactor is going to get planning any where in Ireland.

Also your claim about Wind Turbines going up every where to meet demand is spurious. The individual generators on the turbines are increasing in capacity all the time. Also Statoil are building off shore turbines that are just teathered to the sea bed, what the problem with deploying these beyond the horizon off the west coast?

You need to designate such a project as stratgic infrastructure and go around the normal planning process . Maybe a panel of independent experts to rubberstamp a location choice.

nuac

bbsrs wrote: »

The holiday home and hill walker brigades deserve to have the countryside protected for their pleasure after all they are the ones paying taxes which subsidize the rural dwellers taxes to maintain rural infrastructure.

Is this a joke? Holiday home owners and hill walkers are not the only taxpayers.

Samaris

bbsrs wrote: »

The holiday home and hill walker brigades deserve to have the countryside protected for their pleasure after all they are the ones paying taxes which subsidize the rural dwellers taxes to maintain rural infrastructure.

Brace yourself, but I'm a rural dwelling taxpayer. I know, it seems incredible, but we exist. There's actually quite a lot of us, and we rather like to have a say in our surroundings that we also pay taxes towards too. We also pay taxes towards the upkeep of cities. Imagine, it's almost like everyone's taxes, rural or urban, go towards the maintenance and development of the entire country.

I love the phrasing "protected for their pleasure". I presume the rural-dwelling plebs are just there to give directions and speak in ruralese Oirish to add versimilitude to the experience of city-dwelling folk exploring all this green stuff.