Another major blow for Waterford! Aer Lingus to stop flights to UK from Jan 2013!

Road-Hog

wellboytoo wrote: »

Stobarts ownership of Southend spelled the death knell for Aer Arann out of Waterford, they had 5000 pax a month mainly on Luton, but pushed all resources into Southend, which is great if you are going to central London but a disaster if you are going anywhere else,ie Oxford or west London.
A new carrier if and hopefully Graham will pull one off, will follow the passengers and not another agenda, and will have planes that don't go tech every second day!
A lot of pain now for a short time but long term it maybe for the better.

Bad news for area but can you tell me who graham is? Has he got close political connections, let's hope he can do the business!!

wellboytoo

Road-Hog wrote: »

Bad news for area but can you tell me who graham is? Has he got close political connections, let's hope he can do the business!!

CEO of the airport

Road-Hog

wellboytoo wrote: »

CEO of the airport

Never heard of him to be honest, what sort of CV does he have, would he be on linkedin I wonder, might be able to gauge his calibre from there, what is his surname. Does he have a track record of 'turning things around' lets hope so.

b757

Road-Hog wrote: »

Never heard of him to be honest, what sort of CV does he have, would he be on linkedin I wonder, might be able to gauge his calibre from there, what is his surname. Does he have a track record of 'turning things around' lets hope so.

From what I heard, he is an accountant.. :rolleyes:

I was fully sure that WAT-LTN would be back to 2x daily, was fully expecting Flybe (BE) to pull out (If i had to guess between the two).

Hopefully BE might take over the London route but as Jamie2k9 mentioned, I doubt it will be Gatwick as they are trying to push out airlines with A/C with less that 150 seats.

I wonder could BE also do WAT-MAN too. BHX-WAT-MAN-WAT-BHX (could be a possible W route..)

I was also expecting to see a WAT-EDI to be on the cards before today. I believe it will be all sorted soon, as WAT-LTN did hit 10k passengers per month in 2010 i think and it could be reached again with a decent sized aircraft with good timings.

Trotter

I've met Graham a few times and he's the kind of fella we want in charge now. The general manager Aidan Power is a very good guy too.

Here's the biography from the Waterford Airport site.

Graham Doyle, Chief Executive
Graham took up the post of Chief Executive of Waterford Airport in late September 2006. He has worked at a senior level as a management consultant with PricewaterhouseCoopers in Dublin, specialising in financial and strategic planning with clients in both the public and private sectors. In January 2006, he completed a two year secondment as Financial Advisor to the Department of Transport where, as part of that role, he advised on a number of aviation issues, including the privatisation of Aer Lingus and the business structure for Dublin Airport's development of a second terminal.

RobitTV

Trotter wrote: »

I've met Graham a few times and he's the kind of fella we want in charge now. The general manager Aidan Power is a very good guy too.

Here's the biography from the Waterford Airport site.

I have good confidence in Graham and that he will try and get routes back for Waterford again basically in any sharpe or form.

We are kind of in the same situation as in 2002, 10 years ago when Waterford faced near closure following airline pull out.

Read here -
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=73536

wellboytoo

He's the man for the job ok,timing will be the big issue now to get a new carrier in before he has to let staff go and break up the team,but he started looking quite a while ago so here's hoping

Jamie2k9

Would expect new routes if they get restored won't start until 30 March 2013 at the earliers. Thats the official start of airlines summer schedules.

scout353

CardBordWindow wrote: »

Are they not doing that at the moment??

Wasn't funding provided for the runway extension a few years ago but IIRC a local farmer refused them access to the site through his land so it was/is held up indefinitely!

Sinall

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Would expect new routes if they get restored won't start until 30 March 2013 at the earliers. Thats the official start of airlines summer schedules.

This is what I was told at the airport last night - if they do find someone to take over the route there will definitely be a couple of months before it starts up again

Sully

Its fantastic that we have an airport right on our doorstep with access to UK Airports. Sadly though, people only look at one thing - the price. If the price is higher than Dublin or Cork, they wont factor in other costs such as petrol, parking, and convenience to see whether its worth flying from Waterford or not.

hardybuck

Sully wrote: »

Its fantastic that we have an airport right on our doorstep with access to UK Airports. Sadly though, people only look at one thing - the price. If the price is higher than Dublin or Cork, they wont factor in other costs such as petrol, parking, and convenience to see whether its worth flying from Waterford or not.

I just did a quick scan there to see how Waterford would compare for a flight to London in January.

Aer Lingus from Waterford was €136 return to Luton
Aer Lingus from Dublin to Gatwick was €88
Ryanair from Dublin to Stansted was €60

I'd use Waterford if the destination was available, and if the price made it economical. However, in the above instance I'd be going with Ryanair for the weekend away.

For a single person paying extra might to choose Waterford might be an option with a €76 saving and transport/parking etc to be factored in, but for a couple obviously you've got a €152 saving and the same fixed costs. If I was going off with four single people you'd fill up the car and have a saving of €300 between ye.

I did a similar check for Manchester last week and had a similar result.

sparkling sea

Sully wrote: »

Its fantastic that we have an airport right on our doorstep with access to UK Airports. Sadly though, people only look at one thing - the price. If the price is higher than Dublin or Cork, they wont factor in other costs such as petrol, parking, and convenience to see whether its worth flying from Waterford or not.

It is fantastic that we have an airport but it has to give the customer what it needs and what it wants. People look at price and convenience, most people cant afford to look at the airport as a charity for them to support, they just can't afford it. If the runway had been extended then perhaps Ryanair may have come in and been able to operate a more competitive service but alas that didn't happen. For many people flying from Waterford is both cost and time prohibitive.
Lots of older people in my family use Dublin airport because it actually costs them much less to fly from Dublin when all the costs are considered- they have free travel pass so they get the train and then they hop on a bus.

Southend Airport was of little use for many people who would be travelling south of London, lack of direct links and lines negated any time and cost savings

Also you have to factor in your final destination and the cost of rail travel in England, to get from Luton to somewhere like Brighton will cost about 70 sterling, this all has to be factored in to the final price. Also there is rail works every other weekend in London, so your on the train, then the tube and the train again etc.

It would be great if Flybe came in with flights from Luton or Stansted and Gatwick - hope it happens, as its terrible to think that people working in the airport may lose their jobs.

Sully

sparkling sea wrote: »

It is fantastic that we have an airport but it has to give the customer what it needs and what it wants. People look at price and convenience, most people cant afford to look at the airport as a charity for them to support, they just can't afford it. If the runway had been extended then perhaps Ryanair may have come in and been able to operate a more competitive service but alas that didn't happen. For many people flying from Waterford is both cost and time prohibitive.
Lots of older people in my family use Dublin airport because it actually costs them much less to fly from Dublin when all the costs are considered- they have free travel pass so they get the train and then they hop on a bus.

Southend Airport was of little use for many people who would be travelling south of London, lack of direct links and lines negated any time and cost savings

Also you have to factor in your final destination and the cost of rail travel in England, to get from Luton to somewhere like Brighton will cost about 70 sterling, this all has to be factored in to the final price. Also there is rail works every other weekend in London, so your on the train, then the tube and the train again etc.

It would be great if Flybe came in with flights from Luton or Stansted and Gatwick - hope it happens, as its terrible to think that people working in the airport may lose their jobs.

Worth pointing out that Ryanair wont come to Waterford. They don't like smaller airports (though Knock seems to be an exception!).

The other factor, for me anyway, was the type of planes tbh. I am a nervous flyer and I don't particularly like those small propeller based planes and I believe you need to spread out to balance the planes sometimes. I'm nervous enough on the bigger planes!!

sparkling sea

Sully wrote: »

Worth pointing out that Ryanair wont come to Waterford. They don't like smaller airports (though Knock seems to be an exception!).

The other factor, for me anyway, was the type of planes tbh. I am a nervous flyer and I don't particularly like those small propeller based planes and I believe you need to spread out to balance the planes sometimes. I'm nervous enough on the bigger planes!!

There are alot of nervous flyers around, so that is probably another factor alright.

And Ryanair can't come to Waterford, the runway is not big enough.

Ryanair don't like smaller airports but they do use them, Knock and Kerry. If it could turn a profit Micheal O Leary wouldn't rule it out, he will always follow the money, but he won't build a runway for us - its a pity cause neither will anyone else now

CardBordWindow

Micheal O'Leary is always complaining about Dublin airport. If only we could convince him to use Waterford airport instead?
Sure doesn't he normally fly into airports which are ages away from where you think you're flying into!!? :pac:

Bards

CardBordWindow wrote: »

Micheal O'Leary is always complaining about Dublin airport. If only we could convince him to use Waterford airport instead?
Sure doesn't he normally fly into airports which are ages away from where you think you're flying into!!? :pac:

Maybe instead of the Govt trying to align WRH with Cork, they should be trying to allign Waterford Airport with Dublin. then Michael could call it Dublin - Waterford just like Franfurt - Hahn:D

Cosmo Kramer

Sully wrote: »

Worth pointing out that Ryanair wont come to Waterford. They don't like smaller airports (though Knock seems to be an exception!).

Derry?
Kerry?

Ryanair will go anywhere they can make a few quid. The only places they avoid entirely are hub airports with long holding times like Heathrow and Paris CDG.

If the runway at Waterford was up to the job I have no doubt that Ryanair would fly Stansted and probably a few other routes as well. The runway cannot handle the aircraft so it can't happen - but that is the only reason.

As for enticing flybe - it will be up to the airport to justify that flybe can make money on the routes. They are a commercial entity and will not be flying anywhere to do anyone any favours unless they can make a profit.

It should be noted however that Aer Arann have a track record of continuous failure over a significant period of time. The dismantling of a successful Waterford to London operation is just another example of that. If flybe do take up the routes this incident will be a blessing in disguise for Waterford - flybe are a better, more profitable airline who fly cleaner, more comfortable planes than Aer Arann. I use them regularly from Knock and they are great on niche routes. Longer term I would much rather see an airport build a route portfolio through flybe than Aer Arann.

Teebor15

Worth pointing out that Ryanair wont come to Waterford. They don't like smaller airports (though Knock seems to be an exception!).

Nonsense. The very opposite is true. Have a look a Ryanairs website and you will see that most of the airports throughout Europes they serve are small airports. They target these airports because they have little flights so they can drive a hard bargain when it comes to costs.

The other factor, for me anyway, was the type of planes tbh. I am a nervous flyer and I don't particularly like those small propeller based planes and I believe you need to spread out to balance the planes sometimes. I'm nervous enough on the bigger planes!!

All aircraft no matter how big or small have to be balanced when it comes to load (passengers and bags).

Many "small propellor planes" are newer and more technologically advanced than the larger jets you see with the big airlines. Flybe's Dash 8 are all only a few years old and are very advanced. People see propellors and believe its an old plane or old technology. But its not..its just different. Like petrol engine is different from a diesel engine. Turboprops (propellor) are more economical for short flights and are capable of landing on shorter runways. Dash8-400s that Flybe use are the fastest Turboprop aircraft with near Jet speed. And on short flights to the uk there would be little time saving by using a jet. Granted some of AerAranns ATR42 were getting a bit old but they also have some brand new aircraft too.

wellboytoo

The last thing Waterford needs is Ryanair, he would blow everyone else out of the water and then roll up his tent and tell the pax to go to dublin, look at any other small airport they have gone to with other carriers, they rape them and then call the shots as the last man standing.

Cabaal

I can't help but think that the motorway that so many wanted for so long was likely one of the biggest nails in the coffin for Waterford airport,

Sure it's nice having a airport out the road but not much good when you can get the bus or even drive to Dublin and fly for less and have a far better choice of destinations,

Even when talk talk were still in Waterford they gave up flying into Waterford and used to fly into Dublin or cork and drive to Waterford,

It's crap news for Waterford but you can't force a company to stay at the airport if they don't see it as profitable

Annabella1

tbh a country the size of Ireland probably only needs 3-4 airports.The rest are simply being supported by the taxpayer...where there are bigger priorities like education and health to spend money on

Neworder79

wellboytoo wrote: »

The last thing Waterford needs is Ryanair, he would blow everyone else out of the water and then roll up his tent and tell the pax to go to dublin, look at any other small airport they have gone to with other carriers, they rape them and then call the shots as the last man standing.

Not entirely true, they have been at Knock over 20 years with a growing network and mostly good relationship, almost as long at Kerry and Derry and many other airports. They never pulled out of Shannon or Cork, just cut back some lower yield routes to drive a deal. Yes they play off rivals on cost, but that's the nature of competition, and the airport doesn't exactly have much competition to drive out does it. Cork would have the most to lose from Ryanair at Waterford. But all irrelevant until they can expand the infrastructure.

Teebor15

It's crap news for Waterford but you can't force a company to stay at the airport if they don't see it as profitable

Buts thats the thing..it is profitable. The only reason AerArann/Aer Lingus Regional left is because they are in financail difficulties and with no one willing to invest in them the only way they can rasie the cash to get them out of the mess is to sell one of their aircraft. They have decided to sell the Waterford Aircraft as it is probably the least profitable (not unprofitable)at the moment. This is also down to their complete mis-management of the Waterford London route which began when they downsized aircraft from a 70 seater to a 50 seater which means less cheap seats available so passenger numbers drop then by changing from the establised Luton Airport to the unheard of Southend airport. AerArann created this situation. The Waterford airport statement pretty mush says this plus i know from talking to staff at both AerArann and the airport.

The airport is still very much viable. Even without the runway extension i have no doubt we will see flights again to London and probably Manchester. But it certainly wont be til the start of the airline summer schedules (As Jamie2K9 has pointed out.) Even airlines that want to do these flights may not be in a position to yet. They dont just have aircraft and crews sitting around waiting for oppurtunities like these to happen. It will take a few things to line up to make it a reality.

Flybe would be ideal..they are a far bigger airline than AerArann and have proven to be a very good airline so far with the Birmingham route.

decies

Sully wrote: »

Worth pointing out that Ryanair wont come to Waterford. They don't like smaller airports (though Knock seems to be an exception!).

The other factor, for me anyway, was the type of planes tbh. I am a nervous flyer and I don't particularly like those small propeller based planes and I believe you need to spread out to balance the planes sometimes. I'm nervous enough on the bigger planes!!

I normally fly to london via waterford, week before last went on ryanair from cork to gatwick because return flights were better. Sully at about 15,000 feet the airhostess asked was their a doctor or nurse on board. Some bloke had got pit of earpiece down his ear. Then just as we came in to land the plane took off again, when we did land the second time, pilot told us sorry folks apparently there was a vehicle on our runway as we came into land !!!!

Neworder79

Runway issue seems to be confusing for some. Here's a diagram showing runway sizes to compare to other airports and show the infrastructure Waterford would need to cater for common jet aircraft / attract larger airlines. WAT needs a significant 500m+ extension as well as full length widening and associated navigation and lighting upgrades to meet minimum requirement for class C aircraft (737/A320).

Chicken1

Well people in Galway over the past few years we had Ryanair, Aer Lingus not Aer Arann Regional, Aer Arann, Flybe, British Airways commuter, Manx Air and Atlantic Airways flying four engined RJ70 Jets to Malaga and look where we are today. Dont hold your breath on Flybe or any other airline coming in.

Teebor15

Neworder79 wrote: »

Runway issue seems to be confusing for some. Here's a diagram showing runway sizes to compare to other airports and show the infrastructure Waterford would need to cater for common jet aircraft / attract larger airlines. WAT needs a significant 500m+ extension as well as full length widening and associated navigation and lighting upgrades to meet minimum requirement for class C aircraft (737/A320).

Thats nice..and your not far off..but it doesnt really clear things up. A 156 seater A319 like the ones easyjet use or the 118 seater E195 that flybe use does not need the runway widened or 500m extension to operate. just 300 metre lenght would do it and no widening. The A320 and some of the smaller versions of the B737 (not Ryanairs B737-800s) could proably also operate. does so in other countries.

martin12

sunnysoutheast

martin12 wrote: »

QUOTE=Chicken1;81614202]Well people in Galway over the past few years we had Ryanair, Aer Lingus not Aer Arann Regional, Aer Arann, Flybe, British Airways commuter, Manx Air and Atlantic Airways flying four engined RJ70 Jets to Malaga and look where we are today. Dont hold your breath on Flybe or any other airline coming in.

Ironically enough there are a few of them parked at Southend Airport. They are popular for conversion to developing world private jets due to their short field ability.