PROPOSED WIND FARMS

Eiriu

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Fishing is traditional, and should therefore continue forever just as it was back in the day.

Wind farms are new, and therefore not allowed unless someone cuts me in on the moolah.

Sorry, I appear to be lost here, can you explain the similarities to me between fishing boats and wind turbines? Great analogy, I'm just missing the connection.

The personal reason why I don't want them built is because I really love the view from my house and the countryside which surrounds it. It still looks somewhat natural, which is unusual these days.
If these wind pylons are built in the midlands then they will dominate this landscape. Tall structures dominate any landscape which they are built in- be they skyscrapers in a cityscape or windturbines in a landscape.

People have argued that skyscrapers would have benefitted the Dublin economy during the Celtic tiger, however they were not allowed to build them because they would have changed the whole character of the city.
Now sky-scrapers in Dublin sound like a stupid idea.

How would the people of Dublin react if seven economically beneficial skyscrapers were built in Dublin to house shared service centres that provide outsourced services to the British government;
the British government having first been refused planning permission in London due to them being too unsightly?

Just because Westmeath is not city, does not mean its not important, and that the views of the local residents who like and know the landscape do not matter. Westmeath is very important from a historic point of view. It is home to the Hill of Uisneach which is arguably the most important historic site in the country.

As for the fishing boat, I've yet to see one large enough to spoil my view of the Saltees. I'm sure you do like the view from your kitchen, but I was looking at the same turbines from a totally different place.And they spoiled a different view as I perceived it. Not the one from your kitchen window.

I will be very surprised if these turbines will built in the midlands. Nearly everyone I know is against them, and these are normal people who would not usually protest against anything. People may argue that Windturbines look bad or good. But the most important thing is how the people living in the area perceive them.

Zubeneschamali

Eiriu wrote: »

But the most important thing is how the people living in the area perceive them.

... and that "The local people, bar landowners will not benefit at all from them"

In other words, where's my bribe money?

Eiriu

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

... and that "The local people, bar landowners will not benefit at all from them"

In other words, where's my bribe money?

In what way would the local people expect to extract money from this?

There is no possible way. Are you saying that the local people want hush money?

That idea just doesn’t make sense; maybe you would explain how one could administer such a scheme?

Why can't the farmers continue farming the land and earn money that way. If the land is poor then they will not have paid much for it. If it is good land then they should be able to earn a living it from it that way.
When you buy the fee simple to a piece of ground, it does not entitle you to build whatever you like on it.

My problem is not with the landowners getting money, I'm for that.

My problem is with the landscape being destroyed, as I perceive it

Markcheese

The landscape has constantly been changed by human activity , clearing of forests and first farming (that may caused bog formation ) stone walls and hedgerows,not to mention farms,towns and roads, forest plantations, it's continuos change ...wind turbines are just the next step , get over it, they've a small footprint , if they're economically unviable in ten years they'll be taken down and scrapped..!!
In Cornwall the old mine chimneys from a hundred years ago are now the counties tourist symbol...

bennyineire

Here are some scaled pics to demonstate the sheer size of these things

athlonelad

Reminds me of fr ted.
You see dougal these cows are .......NEAR...and those cows out there are .....FAR AWAY...

Eiriu

Markcheese wrote: »

The landscape has constantly been changed by human activity , clearing of forests and first farming (that may caused bog formation ) stone walls and hedgerows,not to mention farms,towns and roads, forest plantations, it's continuos change ...wind turbines are just the next step , get over it, they've a small footprint , if they're economically unviable in ten years they'll be taken down and scrapped..!!
In Cornwall the old mine chimneys from a hundred years ago are now the counties tourist symbol...

The difference between windmills and all the above is that they are at least 30 times larger than any of the above items.
How many structures, that are as tall as these windmills are currently in the area?

If all steps are not the same height then you will fall and trip. You have mentioned the clearing of forest, the making of stone walls,the building of towns and the growth of forest plantations, how do you see wind turbines as the next step? They are twenty times higher than the steps before them!

If there is no natural environment left in 100 years then humans might forget about nature altogether, and think that there is indeed nothing to life than us ourselves. And what hope have we then?

These windmills are a symbol of our indebtedness as a nation, and the selling of our natural environment to Britain, when they don't want to tarnish their own. They will not be built in Westmeath. The people will not allow it. And I hope they try hard because it will bring everyone together as a community.

AngryHippie

Eiriu wrote: »

If all steps are not the same height then you will fall and trip.

These windmills are a symbol of our indebtedness as a nation,

Not sure that I understand your reference to steps here, are you going to attempt to climb a wind turbine ? I would advise against it. Trees are much safer and have branches to break your fall if you do trip.

I think that the wind turbines might be a better symbol of the national effort to reduce indebtedness. The UK is far more densely populated than Ireland, and does not have the land resources in the right places to construct this infrastructure.
Personally, I am all for it, they aren't nearly as much of an eyesore as many people like to make them out to be, there is not that much scenic beauty to be seen in the plains on the west side of the county. The lake-lands on the other hand are a definite scenic asset and should be treated carefully as such.
As long as due process is followed, and everyone gets to speak their mind, I don't see why some elements in our society should get to shout down the potential for such a scheme before it gets a chance.
I'm not saying that it should not have to go through a planning process, or that the normal Ecological, environmental, archaeological and social impacts should not be examined and weighed up in a public process. I'm saying that some NIMBY clown that wants to preserve a bog that has already been chewed up and spat out by BNM shouldn't get to torpedo a good scheme through some half-baked sense of activism.

:mad:

Markcheese

Yes they're tall... (a lot taller than the ones .5 km from my house) but they're on the flat not on top of a hill... They don't take up that much room...(footprint wise) so are hardly going to destroy the current environment (could preserve a lot of it )
Nice to know that you have the power to say what will or will not be built, but just make your case to an bord planeala , if the development is deemed inappropriate it'll be shot down..
Not sure what your objection is to foreigners spending their money here... Are you anti tourists... Anti software development ,( I agree that there isn't going to be huge numbers of your neighbours employed up there)
I don't get why people are so outright anti all wind turbines... Would you prefer a huge power station near you... Incidentally the most visible thing in my area is an enormous red topped chimney at a powerplant (at pretty much sea level) that was built in the early 80's ...

Eiriu

AngryHippie wrote: »

Not sure that I understand your reference to steps here, are you going to attempt to climb a wind turbine ? I would advise against it. Trees are much safer and have branches to break your fall if you do trip.

I think that the wind turbines might be a better symbol of the national effort to reduce indebtedness. The UK is far more densely populated than Ireland, and does not have the land resources in the right places to construct this infrastructure.
Personally, I am all for it, they aren't nearly as much of an eyesore as many people like to make them out to be, there is not that much scenic beauty to be seen in the plains on the west side of the county. The lake-lands on the other hand are a definite scenic asset and should be treated carefully as such.
As long as due process is followed, and everyone gets to speak their mind, I don't see why some elements in our society should get to shout down the potential for such a scheme before it gets a chance.
I'm not saying that it should not have to go through a planning process, or that the normal Ecological, environmental, archaeological and social impacts should not be examined and weighed up in a public process. I'm saying that some NIMBY clown that wants to preserve a bog that has already been chewed up and spat out by BNM shouldn't get to torpedo a good scheme through some half-baked sense of activism.

:mad:

You said that wind turbines were the next development step after building walls, planting forests, ect ect. I was just pointing out that wind turbines are a lot taller leap than any of these. If you have a stairs at home and one of the steps is a lot taller than the one before it then you will fall and trip.

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

You said that wind turbines were the next development step after building walls, planting forests, ect ect. I was just pointing out that wind turbines are a lot taller leap than any of these. If you have a stairs at home and one of the steps is a lot taller than the one before it then you will fall and trip.

I'm not quite sure what your point is here, BIB.
Are you inferring that this too big a step forward?
Surely this is tried and tested technology........anything smaller just wouldn't have the capacity.

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

Just because Westmeath is not city, does not mean its not important, and that the views of the local residents who like and know the landscape do not matter. Westmeath is very important from a historic point of view. It is home to the Hill of Uisneach which is arguably the most important historic site in the country.

Westmeath is a lot bigger than The Hill of Uisneach you know. Have you a source that can confirm that they intend to erect these turbines in that site or is this simply scaremongering?

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

They will not be built in Westmeath. The people will not allow it. And I hope they try hard because it will bring everyone together as a community.

I do hope your not including me in your generalisation

Like you, I would object if I felt that historical or areas of natural beauty were severly affected, but let the process begin and then judge.
TBH you come across as a bit of a NIMBY.

Zubeneschamali

Eiriu wrote: »

maybe you would explain how one could administer such a scheme?

Sure: whip up a lot of anti-British, anti-land lord owner sentiment, complain about selling our heritage for magic beans, and object to everything, until the company agrees to "sponsor local projects" and "involve the community", in other words, spread some cash around.

Eiriu

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I do hope your not including me in your generalisation

Like you, I would object if I felt that historical or areas of natural beauty were severly affected, but let the process begin and then judge.
TBH you come across as a bit of a NIMBY.

NIMBY refers to projects that are beneficial to one's community, like a landfill, powerstation,dam, ect ect.

The thing with these windturbines is that they will not benefit anyone in the locality. I would still be against them even if I was offered free electricity.

Also in my back yard is the Hill of Uisneach. This hill is the spiritual home of our country and I feel a connection to it. It is the mythical resting place of Eiriu, the goddess which gives our country its name.

The symbolism of this ancient hill being dominated by windmills, used to generate power for Britain- a country which will not allow them in its own countryside, is too much for me. We should not sell our soul for the sake of a very short term economic gain. Ireland could be a very rich country. However it will not be achieved through short term silly schemes like this.

I love our country and its people, I just want ourr government to make better decisions. Look where such a short term outlook got us during the Celtic Tiger. Ireland should not sell its soul again.

Zubeneschamali

Eiriu wrote: »

The thing with these windturbines is that they will not benefit anyone in the locality.

...

The symbolism of this ancient hill being dominated by windmills, used to generate power for Britain- a country which will not allow them in its own countryside, is too much for me.

See, you already know how it's done!

wextipp

Eiriu wrote: »

It is the mythical resting place of Eiriu, the goddess which gives our country its name.

Definition of mythical: Imaginary; fictitious.
Don't think that is a good reason to put windmills up there.

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

NIMBY refers to projects that are beneficial to one's community, like a landfill, powerstation,dam, ect ect.

Not true.

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

The symbolism of this ancient hill being dominated by windmills,

I'll ask again, have you any evidence that they propose to build these turbines on this hill?

bennyineire

http://www.engineersireland.ie/groups/divisions/energy-environment/events/the-potential-for-large-scale-wind-energy-exports.aspx , this is link for a talk orginised by Engineers Ireland and is presented by one of the companys that are interested in devolping these sites, it is a free avent and if you can't attend you can view it on line, p.s. I hear that a planning application is going in for a site somewhere near Cloughan (Offaly) next week.

Eiriu

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

I'll ask again, have you any evidence that they propose to build these turbines on this hill?

No, do you really think they are going to build one on the Hill?
Its the landscape surrounding it that I'm worried about.

Sorry about the NIMBY error, but in reality its what there building in the fields not yards that I'm worried about. A meaningless acronym means nothing to me.

If you don't know about the Hill of Uisneach,and your Irish,then your ignorant of your own heritage. But thats your own issue.

Rovi

[MOD]
Let's not let this drift into firing personal jabs at each other, huh?
[/MOD]

I've never heard of this Hill of Uisneach either, for whatever that's worth

Eiriu

Rovi wrote: »

[MOD]
Let's not let this drift into firing personal jabs at each other, huh?
[/MOD]

I've never heard of this Hill of Uisneach either, for whatever that's worth

You should look it up. It was the homeof the High Kings of Ireland before Tara.

It also contains the stone of the divisions, Ail na Muireann, which divided the five ancient provinces of Ireland.

It really is a significant part of what it means to be Irish.

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

No, do you really think they are going to build one on the Hill?
Its the landscape surrounding it that I'm worried about.

Sorry about the NIMBY error, but in reality its what there building in the fields not yards that I'm worried about. A meaningless acronym means nothing to me.

If you don't know about the Hill of Uisneach,and your Irish,then your ignorant of your own heritage. But thats your own issue.

I do know what the hill is. It's where they hold the Festival of Fires every year, isn't it.;)

The problem is that you appear to basing your entire arguement around that hill. Westmeath is a lot bigger than you seem to think. A wind farm in my part would have no impact whatsoever on the Hill of Uisneach.

Markcheese

Eiriu wrote: »

You should look it up. It was the homeof the High Kings of Ireland before Tara.

It also contains the stone of the divisions, Ail na Muireann, which divided the five ancient provinces of Ireland.

It really is a significant part of what it means to be Irish.

Good for you if that's what it means to be Irish.... to you... Presume your not keen on the "progress" the celts made moving to Tara ....
The kings of southern and northern Ireland weren't so bothered about Meath or Offaly cos a couple of thousand years ago it was a world away ... So maybe it wouldn't mean the same to me as you ...

Eiriu

Markcheese wrote: »

Good for you if that's what it means to be Irish.... to you... Presume your not keen on the "progress" the celts made moving to Tara ....
The kings of southern and northern Ireland weren't so bothered about Meath or Offaly cos a couple of thousand years ago it was a world away ... So maybe it wouldn't mean the same to me as you ...

its what being Irish means to me, it might mean something else to you, and that is perfectly normal, and natural.

Lets say its Dublin Bay

But lets say the view of Dublin bay as described in Ulysses, another important part of our natural heritage, was going to be spoiled by windfarms, how would you feel about it?

joela

Eiriu wrote: »

its what being Irish means to me, it might mean something else to you, and that is perfectly normal, and natural.

Lets say its Dublin Bay

But lets say the view of Dublin bay as described in Ulysses, another important part of our natural heritage, was going to be spoiled by windfarms, how would you feel about it?

You see what I don't understand is how you can assume anything will be ruined? You have no idea where these turbines are going, no idea how they will look in the landscape so why can't you wait until more evidence appears before going into red alert?

I attach the latest newsletter from Greenwire (Peter Harte's who will be speaking at Engineers Ireland is involved in this project) which clearly says that sites will not be finalised before next summer and that this is when public consultation will happen. The big picture will be available then so why not give it a chance to progress first?

Eiriu

joela wrote: »

You see what I don't understand is how you can assume anything will be ruined? You have no idea where these turbines are going, no idea how they will look in the landscape so why can't you wait until more evidence appears before going into red alert?

I attach the latest newsletter from Greenwire (Peter Harte's who will be speaking at Engineers Ireland is involved in this project) which clearly says that sites will not be finalised before next summer and that this is when public consultation will happen. The big picture will be available then so why not give it a chance to progress first?

I will wait until the process to begin in earnest.

The CEO of Greenwire has been quoted as saying that the turbines will "boost tourism in the midlands"- is he serious?

Oh and you can see the whole of the county from the top of that hill.

I don't think any permission will be granted anywhere near me anyway to be honest. There will be too many complaints, all other arguments aside.

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

Oh and you can see the whole of the county from the top of that hill.

How is that relevant ?

Fuzzy Clam

Eiriu wrote: »

Lets say its Dublin Bay

But lets say the view of Dublin bay as described in Ulysses, another important part of our natural heritage, was going to be spoiled by windfarms, how would you feel about it?

A view of the sea ? It looks pretty much the same everywhere. When I lived up there and used to walk my dog on Sandymount Strand, i would have been quite welcome to look at the windmills. Better than a blank horizon.

On the other hand, there was always the 4 chimneys at Poolbeg:rolleyes: