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The hypocrisy of After Hours

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24

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    #32
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    What's cowardly about trying to shield family members from jokes about their injured or dead relatives? Sounds quite admirable to me.

    Have a look at the dart thread. I've given two warnings. Now go to the end and you'll see that I banned someone, another person makes a joke and gets banned and then another one gets themselves banned. And I'm fairly sure it'll keep going this way. You yourself even ignored the warnings I gave.

    This should demonstrate that there's a lot of people who are either totally stupid or simply don't care, in the world. These aren't the people who are being protected.


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    #33
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    humanji wrote: »
    What's cowardly about trying to shield family members from jokes about their injured or dead relatives? Sounds quite admirable to me.

    Why not shield the families of people from different countries?

    Or are Irish people and Irish deaths more importnant and thus people must be protected?

    If what you're doing is so admirable then why are ye doing such a half arsed job? Why not shield friends/relatives of every nation from jokes? Or does the admiration only extend to those with a Harp on their passport?


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    #34
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Because it's an Irish site.


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    #35
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Ares wrote: »
    Why not shield the families of people from different countries?

    Or are Irish people and Irish deaths more importnant and thus people must be protected?

    If what you're doing is so admirable then why are ye doing such a half arsed job? Why not shield friends/relatives of every nation from jokes? Or does the admiration only extend to those with a Harp on their passport?

    I disagree with the premise of your OP and your posts since have shown you're more interested in bashing the mods than having a discussion.


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    #36
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Ares wrote: »
    Or does the admiration only extend to those with a Harp on their passport?
    No.


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    #37
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    humanji wrote: »
    Because it's an Irish site.

    Cool. But it has users from abroad. Surely you should be doing everything in your power to shield them also?
    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    I disagree with the premise of your OP and your posts since have shown you're more interested in bashing the mods than having a discussion.

    I dispute that allegation. Mod inconsitencies has led to this farcical scenario we're currently witnessing in AH. I'm very interested in a discussion. What adjective would you use to describe my interaction with Humanji over the past half an hour? Bashing?


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    #38
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Like in the other threads mentioned above?


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    #39
    Ares
    Site Banned Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Ares


    humanji wrote: »
    Like in the other threads mentioned above?

    I mentioned two threads about foreign deaths.

    The Pig farmer from America, zero mod action results.

    Chinese steam roller thread, Mod posts after two days with a saving face warning after the thread has died out. The same mod who closed and reopened said thread within minutes of its creation because of NSFW images. Yet it took her two days to consider it worthy of a warning on jokes when other threads, Irish related recieved warnings within the hour.

    Don't try and retrospectively paint the inconsistencies of the AH mod team in a pleasent light.

    To clear up any confusion the thread where the Polish man died in the garbage truck incident is classified as Irish because it happened in Ireland. Hence the faux outrage of the masses of AH. If it happens in Lodz then no one cares about the jokes, mods included.


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    #40
    emul8ter25
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭emul8ter25


    humanji wrote: »
    Because it's an Irish site.

    There are people of many nationalities living in Ireland. Tragic things happen and its unfortunate. Yes its an Irish site, but using that as a rationale to treat things differently is some pretty flawed logic.

    You obviously have the right to police the site however you want, but you do know people can access and boards.ie from outside Ireland right? Is holding comments to two different standards depending on the story really a good precendent to set?


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    #41
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,759 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    humanji wrote: »
    Because it's an Irish site.
    WWW.boards.ie.;)


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    #42
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Ares wrote: »
    To clear up any confusion the thread where the Polish man died in the garbage truck incident is classified as Irish because it happened in Ireland. Hence the faux outrage of the masses of AH. If it happens in Lodz then no one cares about the jokes, mods included.

    I love the idea that all after hours mods speak with one voice. I love the implication that all of the entire after hours community thinks the same thing also.

    That's a bizarre observation. I do have to wonder what we spend so much time arguing if the entire community feels the same way.


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    #43
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Ares wrote: »
    I mentioned two threads about foreign deaths.

    The Pig farmer from America, zero mod action results.

    Chinese steam roller thread, Mod posts after two days with a saving face warning after the thread has died out. The same mod who closed and reopened said thread within minutes of its creation because of NSFW images. Yet it took her two days to consider it worthy of a warning on jokes when other threads, Irish related recieved warnings within the hour.

    Don't try and retrospectively paint the inconsistencies of the AH mod team in a pleasent light.

    To clear up any confusion the thread where the Polish man died in the garbage truck incident is classified as Irish because it happened in Ireland. Hence the faux outrage of the masses of AH. If it happens in Lodz then no one cares about the jokes, mods included.

    And I said above that I didn't even know the pig farmer thread existed and didn't see any reported posts about it. I don't know what other mods did and didn't see, and what they were and weren't online for. It also ran for just over a day and quickly receded back as newer threads took over. I don't know if any mods were available to constantly check on the Chinese guy thread (although I do remember a story about a Chinese girl being run over by a truck which got several "jokers" banned, so you'll have to strike off China on your list of nations we can laugh at). But removing images when a thread is first made and constantly being online to make sure every post in that thread is respectful, are two incredible different things.

    Mods are all-seeing. We don't sit in a state of cat like readiness for whatever threads come along. There will always be inconsistencies. It would be a miracle if there wasn't. If the mods are about and a post about anything is seen as offensive, then we'll try to remove it or warn people to cop on.

    You've given two examples of what you want to happen, but the world doesn't work like that. It's not black and white. Every thread has to be taken on a case by case basis. There's no blanket rule that can cover everything. It would be ridiculous to even contemplate it.
    emul8ter25 wrote: »
    There are people of many nationalities living in Ireland. Tragic things happen and its unfortunate. Yes its an Irish site, but using that as a rationale to treat things differently is some pretty flawed logic.
    And thankfully that's not the only factor that's considered.
    You obviously have the right to police the site however you want, but you do know people can access and boards.ie from outside Ireland right? Is holding comments to two different standards depending on the story really a good precendent to set?
    And it goes down to the chances of someone outside of Ireland reading the forum. As I said, localisation of stories is a factor, not the only factor. It's taken one case at a time.
    padd b1975 wrote: »
    WWW.boards.ie.;)
    www.boards.ie


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    #44
    emul8ter25
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭emul8ter25


    humanji wrote: »

    As I said, localisation of stories is a factor, not the only factor. It's taken one case at a time.


    www.boards.ie

    I think that's part of the problem... localisation really should not be a factor. It honestly makes no sense.


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    #45
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Of course it should be a factor. It's an Irish site and Irish issues will always have a dominance over others. It's simply not possible to cover every permutation of what people might be offended by without closing down the site completely, so we have to start somewhere and work our way down. It's the only logical way to deal with it.

    So you factor in that, mod availability, the site traffic and a whole heap of other variables that dictate the visibility of offensive threads, and it's impossible to get them all.

    When the mods deal with a thread we get cries of "What's happen to Boards? It used to be a laugh." and when we miss something we get cries of "Hypocrisy". Damned if we do and damned if we don't. Threads get missed in the struggle to keep any semblance of status quo.


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    #46
    emul8ter25
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭emul8ter25


    humanji wrote: »
    Of course it should be a factor. It's an Irish site and Irish issues will always have a dominance over others. It's simply not possible to cover every permutation of what people might be offended by without closing down the site completely, so we have to start somewhere and work our way down. It's the only logical way to deal with it.

    So you factor in that, mod availability, the site traffic and a whole heap of other variables that dictate the visibility of offensive threads, and it's impossible to get them all.

    When the mods deal with a thread we get cries of "What's happen to Boards? It used to be a laugh." and when we miss something we get cries of "Hypocrisy". Damned if we do and damned if we don't. Threads get missed in the struggle to keep any semblance of status quo.

    I guess you are right ... it can never be perfect to all people.

    Still, I personally find something like this offensive but I guess its ok?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81507302

    I mean, does an unfortunate accident that happened to one woman compare to 100 people that died and 50 billion in damages? Pretty much every single person I know in the USA, friends and family included, was affected by Sandy, but that's an acceptable joke?


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    #47
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    It's in a different forum so I don't get a say in whether that's acceptable or not. Personally, I think it's a poor attempt at a joke.


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    #48
    --Kaiser--
    Registered Users Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    I can kinda see the OPs point about consistency in AH judgements on tasteful jokes...then again, they are fairly consistent. In the 'DART woman' thread the Mod note was on the first page, in the 'Chinese steamroller' one the note was on the third. Not a huge difference to be fair


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    #49
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,759 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    humanji wrote: »


    www.boards.ie



    That does not mean its exclusively Irish.:)


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    #50
    MaxSteele
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭MaxSteele


    The jokes were fairly terrible and were posted in light heart. No one was out to willingly taunt or wish hate on the victim or family.

    They're just ridiculous puns. The only reason the thread was closed was to please the faux, hypocritical outrage and thanks whoring of patronizing posters.

    Just close these death threads anymore or ban/move them to a more serious forum in case someone might (unbelievably) have a different sense of humor to the hysterical whining and chastising which we saw earlier.
    Geographic location doesn't give them priority either I think. Laugh at one death, then pour outcry at the other because it happened to someone who lives in your own country.

    Pathetic.


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    #51
    Gongoozler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,263 ✭✭✭Gongoozler


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Oh, do you?

    Also, it's not just the nationality of the victims of these tragedies - as has been pointed out, it's geographical location. If Pavel from Poland was killed on a pig farm in Portmarnock, I think you'd find we'd be pretty quick to clamp down on the tasteless jokes.

    But this is the point. Why is somebodies death more ok to joke about just because they're in a different country? Well, no that's not the question. The question is why is it ok by boards rules.

    How about that family that was killed when they fell into the slurry pit... if that was in any other country, that'd have been hilarious, no doubt.

    If that had happened in Poland for example, would a thread full of jokes have been allowed? Do you not consider there's a hefty amount of Polish people living in Ireland, and surely they could be offended?

    Personally I agree with people being allowed say whatever they like, but in terms of something like this, in a discussion forum, you need to have clear rules about things. Either it's allowed or it's not.


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    #52
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    I don't think the mods are saying it's more okay to post jokes about deaths of people of other nationalities. I'd imagine it's more a case of location in that on an Irish site with a fairly small userbase (compared to American sites), there's every chance people will know the dead/injured poster. Like when Pygmalion died, I didn't see a single jokey comment, because many people knew him on boards and also offline (myself included). Whereas if someone posts a stupid joke about someone who died in China, chances are that nobody, or possibly ONE Chinese person will see that thread, and they more than likely didn't know the person.


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    #53
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    We'd a thread about an Irish woman who died with plenty of puns this evening, not one reported post as far as I know, nor anybody questioning modding.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #54
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    LyndaMcL wrote: »
    Whereas if someone posts a stupid joke about someone who died in China, chances are that nobody, or possibly ONE Chinese person will see that thread

    I think you're wildly misunderestimating the Chinese there!


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    #55
    Esoteric_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,255 ✭✭✭✭Esoteric_


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I think you're wildly misunderestimating the Chinese there!

    Not really. There's obviously more than one Chinese person on this site, but how many are regular AH users that will see most threads in there? Out of those who do, considering the huge population of China, how many will personally know one person who died?


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    #56
    Bloodwing
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭Bloodwing


    I tend to steer clear of AH, mainly because I figured out fairly quickly that it's the place posters go to get away with things they wouldn't get away with in other sections of the site. If the DART thread had been started in the Commuting & Transport forum I'd say the first person to crack a sick joke would probably have got a ban straight away without any warning.

    AH is frequented by a lot of great posters who at times can be very witty with their responses but unfortunately there's also a number of not so witty posters who go in and post lazy jokes that they probably find hilarious.

    The fault can't be placed at the Mods feet, different people find different things funny and how can they be expected to define where the line is. The rule I try to stick by is don't post anything that you wouldn't say to the face of the person you're posting about.

    I'm not sure i agree with what is acceptable being geographically based. A quick google search of a victims name from anywhere in the world could lead a victim/family member here and who knows what sort of hurt that would cause at times.

    That's just my 2 cents, as i said I don't spend much time around AH because of the jokes that annoy and disgust me so take my opinion for what it's worth.


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    #57
    Gyalist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    Ares wrote: »
    I mentioned two threads about foreign deaths.

    The Pig farmer from America, zero mod action results.

    Chinese steam roller thread, Mod posts after two days with a saving face warning after the thread has died out. The same mod who closed and reopened said thread within minutes of its creation because of NSFW images. Yet it took her two days to consider it worthy of a warning on jokes when other threads, Irish related recieved warnings within the hour.

    Don't try and retrospectively paint the inconsistencies of the AH mod team in a pleasent light.

    To clear up any confusion the thread where the Polish man died in the garbage truck incident is classified as Irish because it happened in Ireland. Hence the faux outrage of the masses of AH. If it happens in Lodz then no one cares about the jokes, mods included.


    This thread following the death of Rudo Mawere, the Malawian student whose body was found in a holdall earlier this year, was low even by the standards of AH. Very little actions by the Mods despite the barely-veiled racism, insensitive jokes, even speculation that she may have been a prostitute!


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    #58
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    emul8ter25 wrote: »
    I think that's part of the problem... localisation really should not be a factor. It honestly makes no sense.

    Of course it makes sense :confused:
    If your brother dies, or if some kid in Ethiopia does, is your reaction the same?
    If a neighbour dies or if some American, is it the same I you?

    Really how can people not understand that incidents which happen locally to the Irish community will be treated differently to a story from an emotionally removed land?


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    #59
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Gyalist wrote: »
    This thread following the death of Rudo Mawere, the Malawian student whose body was found in a holdall earlier this year, was low even by the standards of AH. Very little actions by the Mods despite the barely-veiled racism, insensitive jokes, even speculation that she may have been a prostitute!
    A lot changes in a year.


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    #60
    Think_then_talk
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Think_then_talk


    It was not so long ago that body parts were found on along the beach,
    The so call pun's started in the thread,
    How many Mod's can you count in this one Thread ?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056785238
    But never mind it's just someone's loved one.


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    #61
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Think_then_talk wrote: »
    It was not so long ago that body parts were found on along the beach,
    The so call pun's started in the thread,
    How many Mod's can you count in this one Thread ?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056785238
    But never mind it's just someone's loved one.

    I'm at work you asshole! Trying not to burst out laughing at some of the posts! Lulz.


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