Whatever the result this might be the election result with the most disbelief.

poeticseraphim

So it strikes me that both sides seem to have lost faith in their system. Which says a lot. Both the GOP and the DEMS seem to blame the other. But they BOTH think the general media and the other party is out to rig the election.

I actually think the media is not as biased as people think.

And the fact that both sides think the system is rigged is sad.


Anyway this time tomorrow whatever the result there will be a certain group who are furious and will be convinced there is a conspiracy.

A friend was saying if Romney wins all we will here about is voter supression and racism. If Obama wins all we will here about is a national media conspiracy and the 'international conspiracy' they will blame 'European socialists'.

But nevertheless the US media will encourage this disbelief.


I think US elections and elections worldwide need more transparency.

What do you think the reactions will be if A) Obama wins ..and Romney wins...


I actually think the GOP totally blew it and spectacularly so....i think both Romney and the GOP and Ryan have no one to blame but themselves.....it was pretty bad from the begining.

If Obama wins.....it is Obama's fault...the DEMS served him well and so did Biden. They did their job and in fact the only let down was Obama. His party really pulled together and even the Clinton's get behind him. It really seemed like a party that wanted the best for America. (Cheesey i know). But the GOP seemed to have so many liabilities.


Anyway....it is still early days.

So what do you think the reaction will be either way?

I am looking forward to it:)

Americans sure know how to inject drama into an election:)

Black Swan

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Americans sure know how to inject drama into an election:)

It's a popularity contest well suited for a Hollywood actor. That explains why Arnold Schwarzenegger had been elected Governor of California. He was not qualified by prior experience (e.g., weight lifting, posing in body building contests, authoring articles for body building magazines, and acting in such films as Conan the Barbarian, The Terminator, and Total Recall to govern the largest state of the 50 in terms of population, GDP, and billions in debt. And when he left office, he left the state still billions in debt, with double digit unemployment.

LuckyLloyd

Don't forget he had an 'embodiment of the American Dream' type story.

Conas

I agree with Black Swan, it has become a popularity contest. Not only that, but both parties really seem to hate each other, and it's not in the best interests of Americans citizens to have such bitterness and sour grapes.

It might not happen in this decade, but the time will come again when America will elect an Independent candidate.

Brian?

Foxnews currently doing a segment about how the "main stream media" were cheer leaders for Obama. Preparing ahead for Romney to lose.

Amerika

poeticseraphim wrote: »

So it strikes me that both sides seem to have lost faith in their system. Which says a lot. Both the GOP and the DEMS seem to blame the other. But they BOTH think the general media and the other party is out to rig the election.

I actually think the media is not as biased as people think.

Tell me how the media would have given the Bush DOJ a pass on something like Fast and Furious? Tell me how the media would have ignored the Benghazi travesty if it were Bush? Tell me how the media has investigated the EPA’s sudden rush to put restrictions on coal right after the election, fearing a win by Romney, which Romney couldn’t reverse upon taking office? Tell me how the media would have merely regurgitated Bush’s "talking points" as journalistic fact?

What do you think the reactions will be if A) Obama wins ..and Romney wins...

A) Obama wins... 22 Trillion in debt, and nothing to show for it after another four years. Continual rising fuel costs. Continued economic decline. Continued high unemployment. Continued misery.
Romney wins... Growth and Prosperity all around for the US.

I actually think the GOP totally blew it and spectacularly so....i think both Romney and the GOP and Ryan have no one to blame but themselves.....it was pretty bad from the begining.

How so?

Higher

Amerika growth is going to occur regardless of who is in office...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-05/economy-set-for-better-times-whether-obama-or-romney-wins.html

Shryke

Black Swan wrote: »

It's a popularity contest well suited for a Hollywood actor. That explains why Arnold Schwarzenegger had been elected Governor of California. He was not qualified by prior experience (e.g., weight lifting, posing in body building contests, authoring articles for body building magazines, and acting in such films as Conan the Barbarian, The Terminator, and Total Recall to govern the largest state of the 50 in terms of population, GDP, and billions in debt. And when he left office, he left the state still billions in debt, with double digit unemployment.

He is also a very smart man who became a millionaire running his own business before getting into acting. His marriage was by no mean feat a calculated move also.
He was a far better candidate than you make out and my understanding is that he is well loved over there, but I won't pretend that my finger is on the pulse.

Suryavarman

Amerika wrote: »

A) Obama wins... 22 Trillion in debt, and nothing to show for it after another four years. Continual rising fuel costs. Continued economic decline. Continued high unemployment. Continued misery.

That is all likely.

Romney wins... Growth and Prosperity all around for the US.

Ha. Get real. What does Romney bring to the table that is different to Obama? Nothing. He promises more government spending, more deficits, more corporatism and more Federal Reserve manipulation of the economy. The only difference between Romney and Obama is their party membership.

poeticseraphim

Amerika wrote: »

Tell me how the media would have given the Bush DOJ a pass on something like Fast and Furious? Tell me how the media would have ignored the Benghazi travesty if it were Bush? Tell me how the media has investigated the EPA’s sudden rush to put restrictions on coal right after the election, fearing a win by Romney, which Romney couldn’t reverse upon taking office? Tell me how the media would have merely regurgitated Bush’s "talking points" as journalistic fact?


A) Obama wins... 22 Trillion in debt, and nothing to show for it after another four years. Continual rising fuel costs. Continued economic decline. Continued high unemployment. Continued misery.
Romney wins... Growth and Prosperity all around for the US.


How so?

Romney was not schooled on consistent rhetoric. Information on his past regarding how he treated employees and ran companies should have been revealed by him not the media it would have looked better. Or better yet information should have been shored up.

His wife should NEVER have had a horse in the olympics..YOU DAFT WOMAN YOUR HUSBAND IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT!

The extreme abortion crew should be gagged....the extreme right knows the GOP is largely anti abortion...they don't have to win that vote.

His overseas trips were a disaster and the foreign press hated him. It gave the opposition a bullet and made him look stupid.


Akins lost them the female vote. Maybe they don't want it but they did not have to throw it over the cliff.


Middle America hated Ryan for some reason....


Watch the right turn on Romney and crucify him ....and the mistakes the GOP made.

If Mc Cain was lonely after the election just watch Romney if he loses.



This is a six year campaign for him...we heard him say he does not care about poor people....he likes to fire people....stories came out from his camp described an ass...

What do we know about Obama??? Nothing really...he is enigmatic....the pr staff is earning their wage....

DEMS played it perfectly....the GOP allowed their members comments on RAPE to take center stage.....amateurs..it showed an extreme lack of discipline in the party.

You can't blame the media just because you can't understand it....it is a part of the game deal with it...
The GOP got their ass handed to them....the time Obama got his ass handed to him was the first debate....because access to him was cleverly limited.

If the Romney loses he shares the balme with the GOP ad Ryan...if Obama loses it is his fault...the DEMS did an excellent job.

poeticseraphim

Shryke wrote: »

He is also a very smart man who became a millionaire running his own business before getting into acting. His marriage was by no mean feat a calculated move also.
He was a far better candidate than you make out and my understanding is that he is well loved over there, but I won't pretend that my finger is on the pulse.

Actually he is the first to admit he was crap in his auto bio. And no he is a pariah now since the love child scandal in right wing circles.

But hollywood likes him..but the GOP has issues with image and sleeze and candidates with no substance like Palin..he embodied this.

The consensus is he was terrible and unprepared. In his book he descibes realizing this in his first political interview.

poeticseraphim

Suryavarman wrote: »

That is all likely.



Ha. Get real. What does Romney bring to the table that is different to Obama? Nothing. He promises more government spending, more deficits, more corporatism and more Federal Reserve manipulation of the economy. The only difference between Romney and Obama is their party membership.

They are both poor candidates it is true.

Shryke

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Actually he is the first to admit he was crap in his auto bio. And no he is a pariah now since the love child scandal in right wing circles.

But hollywood likes him..but the GOP has issues with image and sleeze and candidates with no substance like Palin..he embodied this.

The consensus is he was terrible and unprepared. In his book he descibes realizing this in his first political interview.

Is the book any good actually?

poeticseraphim

Shryke wrote: »

Is the book any good actually?

It is very PG. But then he is so sleezy it is still pretty interesting. He is very self forgiving and self obsessed.

If you are interested in learning about personal determination and obsession with work ethic yes.

Hardworking man.....good business man too.....many great sporting achievements..

But he has a huge intellectual blindspot which is obvious.....his hubris is astounding ...

What Total Recall actually turns out to be is a puffy portrait of the author as master conniver," Janet Maslin says. "Nothing in his upward progress seems to have happened in an innocent way."

He is shallow even by hollywood standards....and really unaware


Shock horror Arnold Schwarzenegger is arrogant and stupid welcome to the 1070's.

I respect his work ethic though ...and his go for it attitude ...and his weightlifting and bodybuilding accomplishments.


I mean for a man who had a nazi for a dad who beat the **** out of him he is not that bad....but he is not really a good person either.


Damned hard worker though.

The book itself is not literature......it is literate.

By all accounts the people of California hate him as a politician..but voted for him twice and he really messed the state up and he admits this which for someone so arrogant is really quite something. He is still a box office draw. So he has a Jack Nicholson quality.


He is a conniving, arrogant , sleazy man who worked his guts out at anything he ever did.

He admits he is emotionally f**ked up.

An ex of his wrote a biog of him with his permission...it is much more interesting.

But if you like Arnie ..read it

Black Swan

Higher wrote: »

Amerika growth is going to occur regardless of who is in office...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-05/economy-set-for-better-times-whether-obama-or-romney-wins.html

Indeed. This is a business cycle, although a severe one that is global, not just affecting domestic US. The US will economically recover in the next 4 years, no matter whom is in the office of the presidency; and unemployment will decline into the plus or minus 5 percent range accordingly. Rest assured that when that occurs, whomever is in office will take full credit for it too, along with their party, be they Democrats or Republicans.

poeticseraphim

Black Swan wrote: »

Indeed. This is a business cycle, although a severe one that is global, not just affecting domestic US. The US will economically recover in the next 4 years, no matter whom is in the office of the presidency; and unemployment will decline into the plus or minus 5 percent range accordingly. Rest assured that when that occurs, whomever is in office will take full credit for it too, along with their party, be they Democrats or Republicans.

The private sector ..the unsung hero.....but the oversung villain.

Shryke

Good summation P, cheers. I like the odd biography.

Amerika

Black Swan wrote: »

Indeed. This is a business cycle, although a severe one that is global, not just affecting domestic US. The US will economically recover in the next 4 years, no matter whom is in the office of the presidency; and unemployment will decline into the plus or minus 5 percent range accordingly. Rest assured that when that occurs, whomever is in office will take full credit for it too, along with their party, be they Democrats or Republicans.

How do you figure growth and prosperity under Obama? With Obama we will get more EPA regulations causing energy costs to rise, his two job-creation proposals are to hire more teachers at taxpayer expense and invest more taxpayer money in unproven and fiscally unrealistic green energy jobs, greater taxes, ObamaCare will discourage jobs and hiring, greater national debt, and amnesty for illegals which will cost the taxpayers billions. No recovery in my point of view.

southsiderosie

Amerika wrote: »

How so?

Well, considering that you just said this:

Amerika wrote: »

Obama wins... 22 Trillion in debt, and nothing to show for it after another four years. Continual rising fuel costs. Continued economic decline. Continued high unemployment. Continued misery.

and yet your candidate is in a dead heat with Obama, either:

a) Things aren't as bad as you are making them out to be,
b) The GOP candidate is terrible, or
c) All of the above.

And please spare us the pearl-clutching about the 'mainstream media' and Obama. These days, the media in general serve as lapdogs to power, regardless of who is in office. The Onion offers more insight into American politics and culture than any network or cable news station.

Amerika

southsiderosie wrote: »

And please spare us the pearl-clutching about the 'mainstream media' and Obama. These days, the media in general serve as lapdogs to power, regardless of who is in office. The Onion offers more insight into American politics and culture than any network or cable news station.

Hmmm... I see nobody cared to answer my questions about the media. But that's okay, I think we all know the answer.

And the media were lapdogs to Bush? Where were you for those eight years? :rolleyes:

Mjollnir

Amerika wrote: »

Tell me how the media would have given the Bush DOJ a pass on something like Fast and Furious? Tell me how the media would have ignored the Benghazi travesty if it were Bush? Tell me how the media has investigated the EPA’s sudden rush to put restrictions on coal right after the election, fearing a win by Romney, which Romney couldn’t reverse upon taking office? Tell me how the media would have merely regurgitated Bush’s "talking points" as journalistic fact?

LOL! Those are RW talking points that you're try to pass off as even remotely relevant.

A. Fast & Furious was a partisan fishing expedition turned witch hunt.
B. There was no travesty at Benghazi. The word you wanted was 'tragedy', or, more accurately in your case, 'political football'.
C. The media DID simply regurgitate Bushes talking points, much like you're currently doing with more up-to-date ones.

A) Obama wins... 22 Trillion in debt, and nothing to show for it after another four years. Continual rising fuel costs. Continued economic decline. Continued high unemployment. Continued misery.
Romney wins... Growth and Prosperity all around for the US.

You just disqualified yourself from ever being taken seriously in rational discourse based on reality.

Oh, wait....

Black Swan

Shryke wrote: »

He was a far better candidate than you make out and my understanding is that he is well loved over there, but I won't pretend that my finger is on the pulse.

I am "there" now, temporarily living in California attending university, and few that I know think of him in positive regard, be they Republicans, Democrats, or Independents. Why? When leaving the office of governor after serving from 2003 until 2011, he left California with debt in the billions, some of the highest taxes in the nation, and double digit unemployment. Furthermore, his governorship in California has been overshadowed by the cheating scandal associated with infidelity to his wife, secretly having a child with home hired help, prompting Maria Shriver to file for divorce July 2011 after the extramarital affair had been discovered by her, and now very public. Arnold Schwarzenegger is an embarrassment to the state as governor, no matter your party affiliation in California.

Amerika

As a republican I concur Arnold was not in favor by just about everyone. But for us R’s some of the key areas of admonishment were with his judge appointments and his spending. I swear he was a Democrat in Republican clothing by the time he left office.

southsiderosie

Amerika wrote: »

Hmmm... I see nobody cared to answer my questions about the media. But that's okay, I think we all know the answer.

And the media were lapdogs to Bush? Where were you for those eight years? :rolleyes:

Is this the same media that didn't dare to challenge the Bush administration over his assertions that led to the invasion of Iraq?

Autonomous Cowherd

And please spare us the pearl-clutching about the 'mainstream media' and Obama. These days, the media in general serve as lapdogs to power, regardless of who is in office. The Onion offers more insight into American politics and culture than any network or cable news station.[/QUOTE]

Oh Cheesus, Southsiderosie....'' spare us the pearl clutching'' ...I LOVE IT!!!.....it's going to be my newest favourite term of abuse

Amerika

southsiderosie wrote: »

Is this the same media that didn't dare to challenge the Bush administration over his assertions that led to the invasion of Iraq?

If you recall, both R’s and D’s concurred from the intelligence gathered. And the international community, particularly Great Britain concurred with the Bush analysis.

But that didn’t last too long as the media wasn’t so nice to Bush after the D’s found it beneficial to pretend they didn’t want anything to do with it from the get-go. And the media didn’t wait until after an election to start doing their jobs, now did they?

meoklmrk91

Until the Republican Party stops endorsing nut jobs and starts endorsing the intelligent, gracious, relatable people in their party then they will not do well. Because while there are people who believe in the Republican Party, the rest were waiting for Obama.

I'm not calling Romney a nutjob, he seems to be somewhat reasonable apart from being an elitist and killing his dog. But when he is in the campaign trail and two of his party members, endorsed by the party say that they do not believe that legitimate rape results in pregnancy, one of whom is a medical doctor, I think it severely hurts the campaign, I certainly wouldn't vote for anyone in that party because of that and many other reasons. And until they weed out the weirdos they will not be taken seriously, especially not on the world stage.

McCain I thought was the first decent republican nominee in my lifetime, I'm 21, he had integrity and was very much willing to work with democrats and he wasn't insane. And then he choose his VP nominee.

I'm not saying the Democratic Party is a perfect beacon of hope and light, but the world has felt like a much safer place in the last 4 years than it ever has since 9/11.

Brian?

Amerika wrote: »

Hmmm... I see nobody cared to answer my questions about the media. But that's okay, I think we all know the answer.

And the media were lapdogs to Bush? Where were you for those eight years? :rolleyes:

Your questions about the media have been asked and answered so many times it's unbelievable.

The recovery under Obama is not something that's in the future, it actually started about 2 years ago. It's been a slow recovery but it was also a deep recession.

Having said that, I am not sure how much credit he can take for it and how much was a natural adjustment of the Market.

What's your beef with the EPA exactly? Woul you like industry to simply self regulate on environmental issues? A recipe for poisoned children.

Black Swan

Amerika wrote: »

...ObamaCare will discourage jobs and hiring, greater national debt...

Did RomneyCare "discourage jobs and hiring, greater national debt... (at the state level for MA)? The major difference between RomneyCare and ObamaCare is that the first affects only MA, while the 2nd affects USA. If you are a Federalist, then I can understand your objection to compelling all 50 states to comply with ObamaCare. Fair enough.

But if you read both pieces of legislation, you will discover that they are more similar than different, making me suspect that the earlier RomneyCare greatly influenced the drafting and amendments to the later ObamaCare. What I do not like about both RomneyCare and ObamaCare is that average citizens are forced to enroll, or face penalties. Secondly, both plans favour such forced enrollment into private-sector-for-profit insurance corporation plans (which makes me very suspicious of the potential influence of legislation by the for-profit insurance lobbies and for-profit insurance corporations).

The US political system would be more representative of the average US citizen if both corporations and unions were excluded from using their great power and monies to influence elections and legislation at the state and national levels, including their respective lobbies, and the PACs they use to circumvent campaign finance reform.

In like manner, automatic payroll deductions for political campaign contributions implemented by either corporations or unions should be eliminated in future campaign finance reform, as there is a potential for abuse, with powerful corporate or union leaders pressuring their employees or members to enroll. California has a poorly written proposition on today's ballot regarding this, that has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.

poeticseraphim

Amerika wrote: »

As a republican I concur Arnold was not in favor by just about everyone. But for us R’s some of the key areas of admonishment were with his judge appointments and his spending. I swear he was a Democrat in Republican clothing by the time he left office.

Christ even when a republican Govt admits he was rubbish and you are forced to admit the same, still you find a way to blame democrats.