AI: Ireland v South Africa; Aviva Stadium, Sat 10 Nov [MOD WARNING POST #1160]

leftleg

South Africa: 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jaco Taute, 12 Jean de Villiers (captain), 11 Francois Hougaard, 10 Pat Lambie, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Juandré Kruger, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.
Replacements: 16 Schalk Brits, 17 CJ van der Linde, 18 Pat Cilliers, 19 Flip van der Merwe, 20 Marcell Coetzee, 21 Morné Steyn, 22 Juan de Jongh, 23 Lwazi Mvovo.

Ireland: 15 Simon Zebo, 14 Tommy Bowe, 13 Keith Earls, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Andrew Trimble, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 5 Mike McCarthy, 4 Donnacha Ryan, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Richardt Strauss, 1 Cian Healy.
Replacements: 16 Sean Cronin, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Michael Bent, 19 Donncha O'Callaghan, 20 Iain Henderson, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Ronan O'Gara, 23 Fergus McFadden.

Once again November is upon us and as has become nearly customary about this time, the Boks are in town to take on Ireland at the Aviva.
Both teams are decimated by injuries and both come into the game after rotten form over the summer. South Africa finished third in the 4 nations championship and Ireland wre on the end of an almighty double whalloping by the All Blacks in a now infamous tragic three test tour of New Zealand.
The Springboks have chosen a mixture of raw power (Alberts, Louw, Vermeulen, Etzebath) upfront mixed with a blend of youth and pace in the backline (JP Pietersen, Lambie). Also lets not forget the kicking Ruan Pienarr at 9. Lambie is donning the ten jersey for this game but i would expect to see Pienarr run the show for the boks and try and keep Ireland running backwards chasing balls over the top.



Notoriously conservative Declan Kidney has attempted to turn the tables on the haters out there by picking an un-conventional line up in certain areas. For one he has picked a complete rookie at full back in the form of Munster speedster Simon Zebo.




Zebo has never played full back at senior level for Munster so this may seem a bit of a gamble. But no one can deny that he has been in great form on the wing and seems to possess everything an Irish 15 should possess in kicking, catching and sharp running lines. In the pack in comes Chris Henry as a 7 in what is strangely only his third cap at senior level. Largely ignored lately by Declan Kidney in favour of both Sean O’ Brien and lately Peter O’ Mahoney, he comes in on the back of a stellar club season last season as well as a strong start to this season club campaign at both Rabo and Heineken Cup Level.
The afor-mentioned Peter O. Mahoney, a relative youngster, takes the 6 jersey in the back row. O’ Mahoney, of late, has found himself being more and more labelled the jack off all trades in the Irish back row having played 8, 6 and 7 for Ireland in the past as a starter and sub. He has suffered to a degree internationally in not being given the time to make one jersey number is own under Kidney and as such, some minor question marks remain over his size, tackling and ball carrying. One thing on his side is age and undeniable talent. Will Saturday be the day he banishes any doubts about both his ability and form at international level.



And lastly Jamie makes the jump to senior captain at international level. Poxy though his Mo may be, his form this year has been nothing short of sensational. He has stood out in every game he has played for an injury ravaged Leinster team and as such is always missed when unavailable. Some would now describe him as the lynch pin of this Irish team as he provides a strong link between set piece and back line delivery and is a valuable defensive co-ordinator. Lets not forget the unseen work he gets through at ruck time, turning balls over and legally slowing down opposition ruck ball.

Kidney has also gone with the much vaunted club experience of the all leinster front row of Healy, Strauss and Ross. Some question marks hover over Cian Healys “injured” shoulder but he has been passed fit and hopefully gets through his ridiculous amount of front row work. After the disappointing loss through injury of stand-out hooker Rort Best, in comes the dimunitive and nuggety hooker Richardt Strauss. He qualifies for Ireland through the residency rule and, in terms of ability, crosses all the boxes. Is 3 years long enough to earn the green jersey or should it be longer? Is it fair to Sean Cronin who is now behind the same South African at both club and international level? What is certain is that, under the present laws, Strauss is an Irish player and has such earned his place at the top of the international queue. Could he even be a lions bolter? Only time will tell.

Behind the props lies more unconventional decisions. Injury, form and age have finally broken up the famous “bill and ben” duo of Paul O’ Connell and Donncha O’ Callaghan. A main stay for both Munster and Ireland. Time, form and injury have not been kind to the duo's axis at both club and country level. In comes Donncha Ryan, who has eased in to international rugby like a duck to water. At 5 the English born Connacht enforcer Mick McCarthy gets his “go”. Dynamic with hands, swift of feet and possessing a nice spring at line out time, McCarthy has looked the business at club level for Connacht this year. Can he bring it to bear on the match.



In the backs Keith Earls resumes duties at that all important outside centre spot and links up with one half of the other famous axis in this team, Gordon D’arcy. D’arcy has again rose to prominence after shoring up the 12 channel for Leinster at the end of last years record breaking Heineken cup campaign. His single appearance for Ireland in New Zealand showed that he still has the defensive game to be an international 12 but question marks loom over his attacking abilities. Can those once dancing feet still put facing defences on there heels? Has he got that little bit of acceleration left to get through the holes in front of him. Again only time will tell. Tommy Bowe makes an all-important return to the wing with Andrew Trimble a relative shoe in for the other wing based soley on form and experience.

Im not going near O’ Gara on the bench as its not worth the pain and trouble it may flame up in here. Will he be a direct replacement for Sexton or will Declan shove one of the best fly halves in the North into the 12 channel in place of D’arcy at 60 minutes and 24 seconds?? Only Declan and a few angry posters this forum will be able to answer that. Suffice to say it’s a provocative choice but then again anything to do with Ronan lately is.

His Munster team mate, loose head prop Dave Kilcoyne takes a rightful place on the bench after some sparkling form at 1 for Munster. Question marks remain about his scrummaging ability after a rough ride against Mike Ross in the recent derby in the Aviva. Overall he does deserve a shot and lets hope he makes it count.




And then there's baby face Iain Henderson. At 6ft 6” and near 19 stone while still so young, well the guys a bot of a beast already. Hopefully this guy shows everyone that the future of Irish Rugby is still fit and strong and Declan gives him more than 5 minutes at the end. Already a starter at 6 for Ulster, there is a growing clamour for this guy to get his hand on that green 6 jersey should Steven Ferris’ kness stop working for good.



The other elephant in the room is Michael Bent on the bench. Can he play tight head at international level? Can he actually prop at international level? In my opinion, this is the biggest gamble of them all. This guy could easily end up the hero or the villain of the show. For his sake I hope he does do the business. Bent holds an Irish passport and has genuine Irish ancestry just like the Easterbies, geoghegan and many others in the past who donned the green jersey and played in it with pride. All that’s left to tick is the ability. Tick that one and he’s Irish to me.

Kidney needs this win for seeding points. Remember Ireland have lost 4 games on the trot and as such are on a bit of a miserable run of form. South African coach Meyer has the South African media as well as South African boards members all over him about the type of rugby South Africa play and in particular, there rotten recent form.

Both coaches need a win badly. Enough said.

C'mon ireland

(I left out BOD and POC completely because, well they are injured, mention the haves and forget about the have not's for this game me thinks )

Images from inpho.ie, planetrugby and some stats from wikipedia, the rest of the drivel is my own mutterings.

Disclaimer
Any Provincial bias picked up in this preview is purely coincidental and as such should not be perceived as an act of war.

Zzippy

Nice preview!

PS its Connacht, not Connaught...

leftleg

Zzippy wrote: »

Nice preview!

PS its Connacht, not Connaught...

fixed; cheers for the heads up Zzippy

Glass Prison 1214

This preview has gotten me very excited about this game regardless of our injury troubles bring on saturday

Mr.Opti

Very well written!! Pity about ......;) haha Nah very well done

Fireball07

Just missing a poll! So we can all show our optimism and faith in the team!


Really looking forward to the game, I think we can do it. Okay, we've lost a huge amount of physicality in the back row with Ferris and SOB, and Boks have an enormous pack but still... play with a bit of intensity and pace, exploit any gaps that might appear.

Heaslip is captain and by far the most experienced back rower, we need a massive game from him. Hopefully we'll see him carry a bit too. (In fact, is Heaslip the most capped player in the entire pack?)

I really hope Healy is fully fit, such an important player. And while I wasn't in support of Strauss playing, I really hope he has a massive game, he's really talented and should improve the team.

I have faith in Murray, hopefully he'll get quick ball out to Sexton and let him stamp his authority on the game. Obviously Zebo is the big gamble... I know he can do it... not sure this is the time and place to play a new position but I really really hope he does.


All in all, we'll need things to go our way but we have potential.

RoundBox11

Nice preview!

Have to say i'm not overly happy about the backline arrangement but who knows, maybe it'll turn out to be a stroke of genius!

My biggest worry tho is how much smaller our pack is. I know size isn't everything when it comes to packs but still, that springbok pack is a juggernaut. Hopefully we'll be able to match them upfront because otherwise we'll get a right pasting!

Fireball07

What's McCarthy like come scrumtime actually? Might need an extra bit of power against them...

Clareman

Poll added

And in case anyone is wondering, the reason for the third choice for cause of the first reply to the Op and also the fact that he's 1 of the best Irish players not to have been born on the Island of Ireland

Fishooks12

Think it will be very close no matter what. But I really want a positive performance from a very positive selection. Now considering the brewing ****storm, bound to erupt, win or lose, I'm taking my leave for a few days!

ssaye

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Think it will be very close no matter what. But I really want a positive performance from a very positive selection. Now considering the brewing ****storm, bound to erupt, win or lose, I'm taking my leave for a few days!

God speed. :pac:

ScissorPaperRock

Great write-up leftleg!

pappyodaniel

leftleg wrote: »

O’ Mahoney, of late, has found himself being more and more labelled the jack off all trades in the Irish back row

Haha







Great write up Leftleg. Can't wait for Saturday now.

Swiwi

Nice preview! I assume you have no wife & kids as that must have taken a fair amount of time parked in front of the computer screen. Keep them coming!

Rover Random

Fair play, V. good preview.

totallegend

leftleg wrote: »

some stats from wikipedia

This automatically invalidates your entire preview...

Excellent work, thanks

.ak

This warning is also valid for this thread, FYI.

liammur

I'm going for Ireland, Kidney has absolutely picked the best team available for him, this coupled with the fact that boks won't really care should see us sneak home by a few points.

goreyguy

Kidney has not picked the best team available to him, on form.

thomond2006

goreyguy wrote: »

Kidney has not picked the best team available to him, on form.

Form can't be the only selection criteria to be fair.

How many players has the selection deviated from what you wanted to see?

liammur

thomond2006 wrote: »

Form can't be the only selection criteria to be fair.

How many players has the selection deviated from what you wanted to see?

Very sensible point. As anyone who follows sport knows, there are big game players, form varies from game to game, tactical reasons etc

xpletiv

Great preview. Still see the Boks being too powerful for Ireland though.

wicklowwonder

thomond2006 wrote: »

Form can't be the only selection criteria to be fair.

How many players has the selection deviated from what you wanted to see?

Realistically Reddan over Murray, McLoughlin over POM purely for the extra bit of grunt, bring POM on at the 60 mins mark also personally I would reshuffle the backs, Earls at 15, Bowe at 13 and Zebo on the wing. I think these changes would lead to a stronger team. But its not about selection policy its about the style of play. Kidney picks the majority of the best players its the way he sends them out to play that frustrates me.

Also would have liked to see McFadden play at 12 but wasn't going to happen when BOD got injured. Also Jackson deserves a spot on bench.

Teferi

thomond2006 wrote: »

Form can't be the only selection criteria to be fair.

How many players has the selection deviated from what you wanted to see?

Yeah, I don't see how Kidney could have done much better considering the circumstances?

Of the starting 15 the only obvious one really is Zebo. I would have liked to seen him at 15 a few times for Munster before throwing him in there at international level but he seems to have a lot of the base skills for a fullback so I'm hopeful for a good showing.

And then that is only a positional change, you'd still have Zebo on the wing.

Earls/Cave is much of a muchness.

Rog is possibly the only contentious sub.

Banbridgeman2

liammur wrote: »

I'm going for Ireland, Kidney has absolutely picked the best team available for him, this coupled with the fact that boks won't really care should see us sneak home by a few points.

Nonsense, the best team would be 1.healy 2.strauss 3.ross 4.ryan 5.mccarthy 6.henderson 7.henry 8.heaslip 9.reddan 10.sexton 11.zebo/Trimble 12.d'arcy 13.cave 14.bowe 15.earls 16.cronin 17.court 18.bent 19.touhy 20.POM 21.marshall 22..trimble/Zebo 23. jackson ...... Even earls at 13 and henshaw at 15 would be better

Banbridgeman2

Teferi wrote: »

Yeah, I don't see how Kidney could have done much better considering the circumstances?

Of the starting 15 the only obvious one really is Zebo. I would have liked to seen him at 15 a few times for Munster before throwing him in there at international level but he seems to have a lot of the base skills for a fullback so I'm hopeful for a good showing.

And then that is only a positional change, you'd still have Zebo on the wing.

Earls/Cave is much of a muchness.

Rog is possibly the only contentious sub.

Not a mention of Murray over reddan??? That's the worst call.of all! Murray is one of the biggest reasons we fail to click! He's an appalling scrumhalf and in my opinion reddan, Marshall, boss, Marmion and even O'LEARY are playing better than him

heybaby

So 60% percent of people think Ireland will beat south africa at the weekend, extraordinary, I dont see it myself. Ireland under Declan kidney are certainly capable of 1 stand out performance but the stats over all arent good.

Ireland under Declan Kidney :

Played 36, 19 wins, 2 draw, 15 defeats, win ratio 52%

Ireland versus southern hemisphere opposition provides a worse percentage , we have a 20% win ratio against south africa , a 30% win ratio against australia , the only decent looking stat is our win ratio over argentina which stands at 58%.

Coming off the back of the worst defeat ever against the AB's which was preceded by a 3rd place in this years 6 nations, which was preceded by a disappointing world cup, a woeful pre worldcup series, another third place finish in 2011's 6 nations and its clear this team despite that occasional performance is crying out for any consistency.

Couple this with the absence of half a dozen guaranteed starters including 2 of our leaders and best ever players in BOD and POC and we are staring down the barrel of a gun. I would also contend that Heaslip is not a natural leader and has been given the captaincy by default on this occasion.

The high percentage of people predicting an ireland win tomorrow smacks more of wishful thinking than anything else, where are people getting their confidence from ?? This golden generation under kidney has underperformed since the end of '09 except for a couple of performances, most notably against the aussies at the world cup. I would absolutely love to be proved wrong in the coming weeks and again next spring. I think we'll beat the fijians but lose to the argies and boks.

Fishooks12

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

Not a mention of Murray over reddan??? That's the worst call.of all! Murray is one of the biggest reasons we fail to click! He's an appalling scrumhalf and in my opinion reddan, Marshall, boss, Marmion and even O'LEARY are playing better than him

That's bollox.

No one is going to take these kinds of posts seriously with crap like that in them. Murray actually playing well at the moment, and he's a decent 9.

Foxtrol

"I’d just like them to do what they do week in, week out." - Does Kidney actually believe the crap he spouts (including his other gems like building a squad, picking on form etc)? He is actually delusional or has surrounded himself by so many yes men (including the likes Thornley in the media) that he has lost touch with reality!

Fishooks12

Foxtrol wrote: »

"I’d just like them to do what they do week in, week out." - Does Kidney actually believe the crap he spouts (including his other gems like building a squad, picking on form etc)? He is actually delusional or has surrounded himself by so many yes men (including the likes Thornley in the media) that he has lost touch with reality!

I assume he's talking about what they do at the provinces, week in week out.

It's actually a pretty positive thing. Maybe Kidney is actually going to take a leaf out of Ulster, Leinster, Munster or Conn's book for once.

Foxtrol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

That's bollox.

No one is going to take these kinds of posts seriously with crap like that in them. Murray actually playing well at the moment, and he's a decent 9.

He is playing decent but decent isnt enough to be starting ahead of the other half of the HEC winning halfback partnership of the last two seasons and the two best irish performances in recent memory.

Blame Kidney for those who are judging Murray to the standards they expect for a SH to be fast tracked so quickly into a starting position for Ireland. He simply has never met this level.

Foxtrol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I assume he's talking about what they do at the provinces, week in week out.

It's actually a pretty positive thing. Maybe Kidney is actually going to take a leaf out of Ulster, Leinster, Munster or Conn's book for once.

He's been saying that phrase for years only to then try to shoehorn Leinster/Ulster players into Munster circa 2008 tactics.

If Ireland change their tactics to be like how our provinces are playing at the minute it would make sense but we have no evidence to back this us, only our collective hopes and wishes.

Fishooks12

Foxtrol wrote: »

He is playing decent but decent isnt enough to be starting ahead of the other half of the HEC winning halfback partnership of the last two seasons and the two best irish performances in recent memory.

Blame Kidney for those who are judging Murray to the standards they expect for a SH to be fast tracked so quickly into a starting position for Ireland. He simply has never met this level.

I'd disagree. Murray has been bad for Ireland but he's also been solid on occasion for Ireland and he's improved lately too, bar the Racing game in Paris.

Now I'd still start Reddan I think, but I'm not that worried about Murray starting ig he plays the way he's been playing since September

Foxtrol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I'd disagree. Murray has been bad for Ireland but he's also been solid on occasion for Ireland and he's improved lately too, bar the Racing game in Paris.

Now I'd still start Reddan I think, but I'm not that worried about Murray starting ig he plays the way he's been playing since September

I'm not saying he has never performed to a decent level for Ireland, I am saying he has never performed to the level that made him deserve to be fast tracked into the Irish team especially when the likes of SOB had to work to win their jersey. In my opinion Murray gets so much stick because the jersey was handed to him, he never earned it. For a player to get this sort of treatment you expect him to have appeared in his few games to be a prodigious talent and a world beater, this is the expectation level that Kidney set for him by handing him the jersey and he has failed to meet it and is being judged harshly because of it.

T-Maxx

What's the best place to go to before (and possibly after) the game for a pint or two, with my 8yo?

Fishooks12

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not saying he has never performed to a decent level for Ireland, I am saying he has never performed to the level that made him deserve to be fast tracked into the Irish team especially when the likes of SOB had to work to win their jersey. In my opinion Murray gets so much stick because the jersey was handed to him, he never earned it. For a player to get this sort of treatment you expect him to have appeared in his few games to be a prodigious talent and a world beater, this is the expectation level that Kidney set for him and he has failed to meet it and is being judged harshly because of it.

I agree with all that, which is why we should blame Kidney rather than Murray for that. They hyper analysis Murray gets in Ireland match threads is ridiculous, no other player would be subject to it. Then you get people coming out with all sorts of exaggerated falsity's, an "appalling scrumhalf" being an example on this very page!

Foxtrol

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I agree with all that, which is why we should blame Kidney rather than Murray for that. They hyper analysis Murray gets in Ireland match threads is ridiculous, no other player would be subject to it. Then you get people coming out with all sorts of exaggerated falsity's, an "appalling scrumhalf" being an example on this very page!

True but to be honest its the burden he's going to have to bear. I presume he's happier getting caps ahead of a more deserving Redden and being judged harshly on his performances rather than sitting on the bench/in the stands watching the Irish game but posters saying he's coming along well at provincial level. The criticisms are only going to stop when he is brought to the level he should be (ie bench) or he performs up to the expected level.

bilston

Good preview, well done.

The selection has been made unless someone pulls up in the captain's run today I suggest we all row in behind it. The recriminations can come later if they are needed at all.

I'm interested now in how we play tomorrow. I want to see us speed things up a bit at ruck time, when we pick and go we don't stop for a biscuit between each phase, when runners take the ball off Murray or Sexton they try and get the offload away, and I'd like to see some innovative lines from the backs. We see it for the provinces let's see it for Ireland. I know there's less space and less time on the ball at test level and you have to adapt a bit but let's see a bit more risk tomorrow. The reward is worth it IMO.

CatFromHue

T-Maxx wrote: »

What's the best place to go to before (and possibly after) the game for a pint or two, with my 8yo?

The Horse Show House, they usually don't ask anyone for ID :pac:

jacothelad

T-Maxx wrote: »

What's the best place to go to before (and possibly after) the game for a pint or two, with my 8yo?

Depends how many WKDs he can hold.

tbm

Can't see us winning this. Save for three players, this team finished the RC vs NZ. They may have lots of injuries, but they're more settled then we are.

Outside of ROG on the bench and Murrey starting - I think Murrey's great, and is playing well, it's just this any 4 year old would tell you that playing a 9 and 10 who are familiar with each other will give you an edge - I've few complaints about the team. Sans Fez and SoB the backline are really going to have to take this game to them. I really want to see Earls and Trimble break the line.

I was out in Cork during the World Cup, just before we beat Austrialia. At that stage our most likely quarter final oppoants looked like being the Boks. I was discussing this fact with and EXTREMELY drunk Kiwi who offered the following advice:

"Just run at the b*stards (hic!), really, they don't like it, just run at them (hic!)"

Anybody know anybody in the Irish set up who could get this info to the lads?

crisco10

I actually think the new 5 second rule at the base of the ruck will help Murray. Forces him to not have a conference while he arranges Box Kicks etc..

danthefan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

That's bollox.

No one is going to take these kinds of posts seriously with crap like that in them. Murray actually playing well at the moment, and he's a decent 9.

Then I think of the Racing game and it's equally difficult to take your post seriously.


My own view is that he wouldn't get near the England, Welsh or French international squads.

desertcircus

Really not holding out much hope for this. We realistically need Zebo to work at fifteen, Murray to have the game of his life, and the squad to gel incredibly fast against a team who've been in camp together for most of the last two or three months. There are too many variables that can go wrong for us; if they send the likes of Etzebeth down Earls' channel, if Healy gets injured, if POM loses the rag with the Boks, if Zebo gets exposed positionally, we almost certainly lose.

Fishooks12

danthefan wrote: »

Then I think of the Racing game and it's equally difficult to take your post seriously.


My own view is that he wouldn't get near the England, Welsh or French international squads.

Take it however you like. If you're in the habit of basing a players form on one game then I suppose there's no talking to you.

But seeing as you're dealing in one game summations of players, you might want to take note that he was MOTM the very next weekend

I'd have him over Youngs in the England squad too

goreyguy

Young is in terrible form, doesn't mean Murray isn't vastly overrated. I'd gladly eat those words if he plays brilliantly at the weekend but i doubt he can fix the speed of his passing any time soon. The new ruck rule is forcing him to be quicker at the base at least, shame it requires a rule change for him to be faster making decision and getting the ball out to the backs.

He is just a big lump of a guy who has average SH skills which suits Kidney's style of play.

danthefan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Take it however you like. If you're in the habit of basing a players form on one game then I suppose there's no talking to you.

But seeing as you're dealing in one game summations of players, you might want to take note that he was MOTM the very next weekend

I'd have him over Youngs in the England squad too

He hasn't played a whole lot of rugby this season. He was decidedly second best in the Leinster game compared to Reddan. He was just plain awful against Racing. Maybe you'd get away with describing his form at patchy (MotM against Edinburgh, wahoo!). Saying he's playing well though is just fiction.

irishbucsfan

You'd swear some people just want to pick their favourite 15 players every week.

They just talk about who they like and don't refer to how theyd affect the game of rugby that happens to be taking place this week after the main event (kidneys squad selection).

Grimebox

heybaby wrote: »

So 60% percent of people think Ireland will beat south africa at the weekend, extraordinary, I dont see it myself. Ireland under Declan kidney are certainly capable of 1 stand out performance but the stats over all arent good.

Ireland under Declan Kidney :

Played 36, 19 wins, 2 draw, 15 defeats, win ratio 52%

Ireland versus southern hemisphere opposition provides a worse percentage , we have a 20% win ratio against south africa , a 30% win ratio against australia , the only decent looking stat is our win ratio over argentina which stands at 58%.

Coming off the back of the worst defeat ever against the AB's which was preceded by a 3rd place in this years 6 nations, which was preceded by a disappointing world cup, a woeful pre worldcup series, another third place finish in 2011's 6 nations and its clear this team despite that occasional performance is crying out for any consistency.

Couple this with the absence of half a dozen guaranteed starters including 2 of our leaders and best ever players in BOD and POC and we are staring down the barrel of a gun. I would also contend that Heaslip is not a natural leader and has been given the captaincy by default on this occasion.

The high percentage of people predicting an ireland win tomorrow smacks more of wishful thinking than anything else, where are people getting their confidence from ?? This golden generation under kidney has underperformed since the end of '09 except for a couple of performances, most notably against the aussies at the world cup. I would absolutely love to be proved wrong in the coming weeks and again next spring. I think we'll beat the fijians but lose to the argies and boks.

We are consistently average. I used to buy into the whole "Ireland are an underachieving team with huge potential" but its never been realised. I will not have my heart broken again and again. This team has never played together and as such I think it will be a return to the usual mediocrity we are used to. I hope I'm wrong of course. SA by 15

Fishooks12

danthefan wrote: »

He hasn't played a whole lot of rugby this season. He was decidedly second best in the Leinster game compared to Reddan. He was just plain awful against Racing. Maybe you'd get away with describing his form at patchy (MotM against Edinburgh, wahoo!). Saying he's playing well though is just fiction.

It's actually opinion. You should really be less condescending when trying to express an opinion.

Murray has been pretty good this season from what I've seen of him, he's had 5 or 6 starts to the best of my knowledge. I've no worries about him starting tomorrow, I'd prefer Reddan but not by as much as last year . And for this particular game I think Murray might just be the right choice given his defense and kicking game

No doubt you'll be chomping at the bit to bash Murray and nit pick his every movement tomorrow though

danthefan

Fishooks12 wrote: »

It's actually opinion. You should really be less condescending when trying to express an opinion.

Murray has been pretty good this season from what I've seen of him, he's had 5 or 6 starts to the best of my knowledge. I've no worries about him starting tomorrow, I'd prefer Reddan but not by as much as last year . And for this particular game I think Murray might just be the right choice given his defense and kicking game

No doubt you'll be chomping at the bit to bash Murray and nit pick his every movement tomorrow though

I never wanted him picked, I've no confidence in him at all as an international SH, and if he plays poorly I will be pointing out what a daft decision it was to start him, not that it'll make a difference.

I obviously hope he plays well however.

And I don't really want to get into a tit-for-tat argument but if you're going to complain about being condescending don't be posting things like:

Fishooks12 wrote: »

That's bollox.

No one is going to take these kinds of posts seriously with crap like that in them. Murray actually playing well at the moment, and he's a decent 9.