AI: Ireland v South Africa; Aviva Stadium, Sat 10 Nov [MOD WARNING POST #1160]

Banbridgeman2

Fishooks12 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Have you ever seen Zane Kirchner play?

This is the second time you've been condescending to me after the 'you must not watch much rugby' comment, I would like if you would stop. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm not as knowledgeable as you. I've watched Kirchner and would 100% have him at 15 ahead of Zebo, surprised its even being debated here

Grimebox

Fishooks12 wrote: »

The only thing Kirchner has over Zebo is international experience and more familiarity with 15

Virtually every other facet of Zebo's game is more appealing. Kirchner would struggle to start at 15 for any other test nation

This facet is huge imo

irishbucsfan

Louw is their openside and Alberts is their blindside

Fishooks12

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

This is the second time you've been condescending to me after the 'you must not watch much rugby' comment, I would like if you would stop. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm not as knowledgeable as you. I've watched Kirchner and would 100% have him at 15 ahead of Zebo, surprised its even being debated here

Have you seen Taute play? What exactly would you say he has over Earls?

.ak

Fishhooks12, Banbridgeman2 - anymore bickering and you'll spend the week off the forum. Infractions issued.

Fishooks12

Grimebox wrote: »

This facet is huge imo

True, and tbh If this game was realistically important to our ranking points I'd choose a fullback like Kirchner if he was available. But Zebo has far more about him as a footballer.

I think Kirchner is one of worst top tier 15's

Tox56

It's not just that Kirchner has more familiarity with 15, it's that Zebo (at senior level at least) has virtually no familiarity whatsoever with 15. He could be good or he could fall flat on his face, I'd rather we knew which is more likely in advance of the game, but we don't really have many other options, so why not give it a lash.

leonard7

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Louw is their openside and Alberts is their blindside

in both bbc website and irish rugby website they have Louw at 6 and Alberts at 7...i don't know if its just a case of liking particular numbers but thats what i was going by

Mr.Opti

leonard7 wrote: »

in both bbc website and irish rugby website they have Louw at 6 and Alberts at 7...i don't know if its just a case of liking particular numbers but thats what i was going by

In south Africa the no. 6 is the openside and the 7 is the blindside

leonard7

Mr.Opti wrote: »

In south Africa the no. 6 is the openside and the 7 is the blindside

learn something new every day i guess

shuffol

Think people overstate how good D'arcy was in the 2nd test in New Zealand, he was good compared to how he played in the 6N which was pretty rubbish in truth, he brought a solidity defensively that was missed the week before but a safe pair of hands is all he realistically offers nowadays. Just looking at the stats for the game, he made zero clean breaks, beat zero defenders, ran for zero metres and made no offloads, and this was his best game last season.

Banbridgeman2

Agree there, but there's no one else. Too risky to try Jackson at 12...

Scioch

I'm getting a good feeling about this game. I think the Boks will be showing up expecting to run away with it. We are missing a lot of our first choice players and I'm sure they know it, even if they dont know the names.

They will be of the mind that they are facing a second string Irish team, weaker than the side the All Black humiliated in NZ. But we are plenty strong in strategic positions. I think our front row is stronger than ever, I think out second row will operate without a problem. Set pieces we should be solid and I think we have enough players to compete at the breakdown and our centre and wings are strong. We have some impact from the bnch too in Cronin, Henderson, Reddan and Ferg. We are definitely capable of putting up a fight.

We have a good mix of experience and youth and I think the Boks will get a sharp shock when they realise they will have to work damn hard to beat us.

goreyguy

got to find a new 12 soon, realistically this 6N should be Darcys last.

shuffol

Cant fathom how McSharry didnt make the squad, young 12, playing excellent in the HEC. You'd swear we were tripping over these type of players.

Tox56

shuffol wrote: »

Think people overstate how good D'arcy was in the 2nd test in New Zealand, he was good compared to how he played in the 6N which was pretty rubbish in truth, he brought a solidity defensively that was missed the week before but a safe pair of hands is all he realistically offers nowadays. Just looking at the stats for the game, he made zero clean breaks, beat zero defenders, ran for zero metres and made no offloads, and this was his best game last season.

He did what we need a 12 to do at the moment, he was just solid. He played like a drain in the 6 Nations but found his form again for Leinster and eventually for Ireland in NZ. He won't last much longer at this level and we need alternatives, but we already knew that. McSharry and Marshall look the most likely as it stands, McFadden was playing well there earlier this season too.

Fireball07

I've been looking for D'Arcy to be phased out of the team for a while...but I'm firmly in favour of him starting tomorrow. He's playing reasonably well for Leinster and I think we'll need his experience tomorrow.

But for the Fiji game definitely, and possibly even the Argentina game, I'd like to see Luke Marshall or McFadden given a go. McSharry is probably the most in-form 12, I'd have loved to see him called up.

goreyguy

Agree with Darcy being need for SA. But i'd really prefer a younger 12 to start playing more for IRE.

Until McFadden can unseat Darcy or Marshall unseat Wallace, McSharry is the best option with maybe Downey and Keatley in the mix.

Banbridgeman2

shuffol wrote: »

Cant fathom how McSharry didnt make the squad, young 12, playing excellent in the HEC. You'd swear we were tripping over these type of players.

McSherry was called up don't know why papers didn't mention it

Fireball07

I'd nearly prefer to keep Wallace and D'Arcy than Downey... just don't see much point in bringing him in for, what, one or two years?

Keatley would be a possibility if there was no one else...I'd prefer throwing Marshall straight in tbh. Or just give McSharry a go and see how he does, might improve him.

I'd love to see Madigan tried at 12...

tolosenc

McFadden look to have usurped D'arcy at Leinster this year, and D'arcy hasn't looked more than OK for Ireland for a while now. McFadden should play vs Argentina, with Marshall tried out at 12 vs Fiji.

One person who should not be considered for the 12 shirt, however, is Jonathan Sexton. That said, he'll probably get more minutes there than everyone bar D'arcy over the coming 3 games.

totallegend

tolosenc wrote: »

McFadden look to have usurped D'arcy at Leinster this year.

Has he?

totallegend

Good lord. If you transcribed Hook's radio show on here you'd be banned for trolling.

irishbucsfan

totallegend wrote: »

Good lord. If you transcribed Hook's radio show on here you'd be banned for trolling.

Ah go on, tell us what he's saying!

goreyguy

Hook is a troll.

19543261

irishbucsfan wrote: »

totallegend wrote: »

Good lord. If you transcribed Hook's radio show on here you'd be banned for trolling.

Ah go on, tell us what he's saying!

Please, because I'd like to know. He went on about never understanding Kidney, and some curious point about not agreeing with Heaslip's captaincy. I've never quite grasped the pure hatred (if you're to believe what people to be genuine) people hold for him. I'm no expert on rugby, but there seems to be quite some disparity between the things he says and how people regard him..

totallegend

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ah go on, tell us what he's saying!

Ah he was just going mental about Heaslip, doesn't do any grunt work, hasn't played well since 09, can't control the ball at the back of the scrum, shouldn't be captain. Most of his opinions on the Boks are based on what he saw in the 1950s

In fairness, Dave McIntyre is well able for him, called Hook out on his inability to discuss modern rugby without harking back forty years.

danthefan

totallegend wrote: »

can't control the ball at the back of the scrum

He actually said that? About Heaslip? Basically proof he doesn't watch rugby.

Pudsy33

danthefan wrote: »

He actually said that? About Heaslip? Basically proof he doesn't watch rugby.

Was just thinking that, that line really jumped out at me. Clueless isn't the word. Heaslip is unbelievable at controlling the ball with his feet!

ScissorPaperRock

At least we won't be starting off tomorrow with the god awful renditions of Ireland's Call that we had in NZ. I maintain that they had us on the back foot from the start.

Blut2

totallegend wrote: »

Ah he was just going mental about Heaslip, doesn't do any grunt work, hasn't played well since 09, can't control the ball at the back of the scrum, shouldn't be captain. Most of his opinions on the Boks are based on what he saw in the 1950s

In fairness, Dave McIntyre is well able for him, called Hook out on his inability to discuss modern rugby without harking back forty years.

One of my favourite George Hook quotes that really sums up his commentary style is:

"They're using statistics in the same way that a drunk uses a lamp-post...to prop himself up".

Because who needs statistics when you can simply spout uninformed opinion? Sometimes I wonder if his whole on-air persona is satire.

tolosenc

totallegend wrote: »

Has he?

Given the extent by which the squad was decimated by injury, it is somewhat hard to tell. I may be mistaking McFadden starting v Exeter as a preference rather than an injury enforced alteration.

Dunno. Something tells me that Joe may favour him.

FrogMarch

Blut2 wrote: »

Sometimes I wonder if his whole on-air persona is satire.

This.

I mean... when was the last time you heard any enlightening analysis from Hook? There's more insight in one of Connor O'Shea's muted studio farts.

duckysauce

FrogMarch wrote: »

This.

I mean... when was the last time you heard any enlightening analysis from Hook? There's more insight in one of Connor O'Shea's muted studio farts.

his podcasts on the lions tour were good, anything got to do with Ireland is pure muck , wants people talking about him as we are doing now

Journeyman_1

I think we should start sexton at 9 and ROG at 10. that way we'd make so many great kicks!!!

Fireball07

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

I think we should start sexton at 9 and ROG at 10. that way we'd make so many great kicks!!!

Post of the day

liammur

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

I think we should start sexton at 9 and ROG at 10. that way we'd make so many great kicks!!!

ROG shouldn't be in the squad anymore. He's spent, and other guys should be given experience.

Third_Echelon

T-Maxx wrote: »

What's the best place to go to before (and possibly after) the game for a pint or two, with my 8yo?

The Lansdowne Hotel is always a good spot. They have a big outside area with plenty of room, with outdoor bars and BBQ, TVs etc...

anyway, back to the game

For me, the worrying selection is Zebo at 15. I just don't get it. Kidney harps on about players doing it week in, week out with their province, then he goes and selects a good up and coming winger at fullback! A position that he never plays? The mind boggles sometimes with Kidney!

If you were to follow his, week in, week out logic, the only Irish man that has been playing at 15 in the recent months is Ian Madigan. It may not be his favoured/best position, but at least he has played Rabo and Heineken Cup games there this season! I don't know... it's stuff like this where I can't wait to see the back of Kidney!

If you are then going for experience at fullback and you don't fancy Madigan, put Earls at full back and bring in Bowe to 13 (don't think it's his best position) or McFadden. At least McFadden is actually a recognised centre of sorts and has played there before. Under Kidney though, utility players like McFadden don't seem to do well. They get games on the wing, or they are on the bench, when in fact they are a very good player at a position that they could play in (13 in this case), so we don't have a very inexperienced 15!

For me anyway, the starting backs would be:

---

15 Earls

---

14 Bowe

---

11 Trimble

---

12 D'Arcy 13 Mc Fadden ----

---

10 Sexton

---

---

9 Reddan

---

I think the 9/10 partnership always works best with the pairing that works together well. Then from the bench you can spring Zebo with 20 mins to go if Trimble or Bowe are getting tired or D'Arcy doesn't make the 80. Bring bowe in there, on with Zebo.

Up front, we probably have the best available to us... though in saying that McLaughlin and Jennings have been in good form for Leinster and might feel hard done by, but overall the forwards look ok.

How will the game go? Really depends on Kidney's game plan. If it is high intensity, run at the boks and bring the game to them, we have a chance. If it's the Murray kicking the ball to them every time game plan, then again we are screwed. You can't give one of the best teams in the world the ball so easily... I guess which Ireland turns up on the day will tell a lot. If we stand up to them we can win. If we sit back, SA will run out by 10 or so points i think.

Ardillaun

I'm not sure if this is the right venue to ask such a question but - does anybody know of a reliable, legal website where I can subscribe and watch the game live tomorrow online in Canada?

Fireball07

A few people have mentioned it now but I have no idea why anyone would want Bowe at 13 when you have Cave in the squad. Similarly with McFadden...he's played there but never been overly convincing, quite limited at outside centre..Cave is a much rounded player.

Wrt Madigan at full-back, the likes of Henshaw and Hurley have played a similar amount of games at 15 as him, Keatley's played a couple, as has Jones. Don't think I'd want any of them internationally (Henshaw or Jones in the future). Like I've said, I'd have picked Earls with Cave at centre, Zebo on the wing. 12 is the only position I'd like to see McFadden start in, he's not good enough anywhere else...but he is a good utility player.

Zebo at 15 is a massive massive risk. But it could pay off. (Let's hope it does)

.ak

Please direct all match day stream requests here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056782072

Mr.Opti

Third_Echelon wrote: »

If you are then going for experience at fullback and you don't fancy Madigan, put Earls at full back and bring in Bowe to 13 (don't think it's his best position) or McFadden. At least McFadden is actually a recognised centre of sorts and has played there before. Under Kidney though, utility players like McFadden don't seem to do well. They get games on the wing, or they are on the bench, when in fact they are a very good player at a position that they could play in (13 in this case), so we don't have a very inexperienced 15!

This is the first post i've seen with McFadden at 13. If your going with someone with experience (Earls at fullback) it would be Cave who actually starts and plays at 13. Cave has been playing very well and is unlucky that both BOD & Earls are ahead of him.

The reason why McFadden doesn't do well is because he isn't good enough for the Irish team to start. He doesn't even excel in any position for Leinster. But is a very good option for the bench as he covers so many positions.

Third_Echelon

Mr.Opti wrote: »

This is the first post i've seen with McFadden at 13. If your going with someone with experience (Earls at fullback) it would be Cave who actually starts and plays at 13. Cave has been playing very well and is unlucky that both BOD & Earls are ahead of him.

The reason why McFadden doesn't do well is because he isn't good enough for the Irish team to start. He doesn't even excel in any position for Leinster. But is a very good option for the bench as he covers so many positions.

McFadden has been in very good form for Leinster this season when he has played... He is probably a better 12 than a 13, but D'Arcy is also playing quite well, so why rock the boat at 12? Cave would also be a good option at 13, but I think McFadden would bring that slight bit more experience at test level. It's a channel that the boks will try to run at early to see how it stands up. Definitely I would give Cave a run at 13 against Fiji, possibly Argentina.

Fireball07

Third_Echelon wrote: »

McFadden has been in very good form for Leinster this season when he has played... He is probably a better 12 than a 13, but D'Arcy is also playing quite well, so why rock the boat at 12? Cave would also be a good option at 13, but I think McFadden would bring that slight bit more experience at test level. It's a channel that the boks will try to run at early to see how it stands up. Definitely I would give Cave a run at 13 against Fiji, possibly Argentina.

I'd definitely question McFadden's defence at 13. Has been shown up in the past. And his passing ability, doesn't really bring the players outside him into play much. He's just not really suited to that position and would have him behind BOD, Earls, Cave, EOM, Griffin ahead of him in that position for Ireland.

CatFromHue

1. Cian Healy 185cm 112kg - Tendai Mtawarira 187cm 118kg
2. Richardt Strauss 175cm 101kg - Adriaan Strauss 184cm 111kg
3. Mike Ross 188cm 127kg - du Plessis 188cm 119kg

4. Donnacha Ryan 198cm 108kg - Eben Etzebeth 203cm 117kg
5. Mike McCarthy 193cm 115kg - Juandré Kruger 198cm 112kg
6. Peter O'Mahony 191cm 108kg - Louw 190 cm 114kg
7. Chris Henry 191cm 107kg - Willem Alberts 194cm 125kg
8. Jamie Heaslip 193cm 109kg - Duane Vermeulen 193cm 108kg

There's a big size difference in the loose five there! I'm not sure how much it matters about our centres to be honest.

Journeyman_1

liammur wrote: »

ROG shouldn't be in the squad anymore. He's spent, and other guys should be given experience.

have you never even watched a game of rugby????????

if ireland just keep kicking goals, then SA dont stand a chance because ireland will spend 75-79 minutes kicking goals and winning the match!!!!!!!!!!!

Third_Echelon

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'd definitely question McFadden's defence at 13. Has been shown up in the past. And his passing ability, doesn't really bring the players outside him into play much. He's just not really suited to that position and would have him behind BOD, Earls, Cave, EOM, Griffin ahead of him in that position for Ireland.

A tad harsh I think... No doubt BOD is better. Earls has played more times there, but he is a better 11. I would have him ahead of the rest in terms of international experience.

Fireball07

Third_Echelon wrote: »

A tad harsh I think... No doubt BOD is better. Earls has played more times there, but he is a better 11. I would have him ahead of the rest in terms of international experience.

He obviously has more international experience but I don't think he should get any more there. Earls has looked comfortable at 13 at HC and international level in the past year, looks like a good option.

Cave has always been very good for Ulster in the HC, maybe lacks a tiny bit of pace but is solid in defence, is a nice passer and is able to find a gap.

EOM has always looked more impressive at 13 than McFadden, and Griffin is one of the brightest prospects in the country imo. He does need to kick on a bit though.


Don't get me wrong, I like McFadden, think he has a lot to offer... I just don't think it should be at 13, he's never convinced me there. Definitely better at 12.

tolosenc

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

have you never even watched a game of rugby????????

if ireland just keep kicking goals, then SA dont stand a chance because ireland will spend 75-79 minutes kicking goals and winning the match!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, but you're talking out your arse here.

We need to spend 80 minutes scoring tries, not kicking goals. The game has moved on.

Journeyman_1

tolosenc wrote: »

I'm sorry, but you're talking out your arse here.

We need to spend 80 minutes scoring tries, not kicking goals. The game has moved on.

but its easier to kick than to run alot, so why not just kick alot, hmmmm???????

also, we have the 2 very best kickers of all time in any sport available, SO UUUSSSEEEEE TTTHHHEEEMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!

i only talk out of my arse when im doing my ace ventura impression (ps, you should come see me do it sometime, IM FKIN AMAZING!)