AI: Ireland v South Africa; Aviva Stadium, Sat 10 Nov [MOD WARNING POST #1160]

Clearlier

CatFromHue wrote: »

1. Cian Healy 185cm 112kg - Tendai Mtawarira 187cm 118kg
2. Richardt Strauss 175cm 101kg - Adriaan Strauss 184cm 111kg
3. Mike Ross 188cm 127kg - du Plessis 188cm 119kg

4. Donnacha Ryan 198cm 108kg - Eben Etzebeth 203cm 117kg
5. Mike McCarthy 193cm 115kg - Juandré Kruger 198cm 112kg
6. Peter O'Mahony 191cm 108kg - Louw 190 cm 114kg
7. Chris Henry 191cm 107kg - Willem Alberts 194cm 125kg
8. Jamie Heaslip 193cm 109kg - Duane Vermeulen 193cm 108kg

There's a big size difference in the loose five there! I'm not sure how much it matters about our centres to be honest.

Is Mike Ross really 127kgs? And Willem Alberts 125 kgs?

Etzebeth is quoted on the SArugby.com website as saying that he will be taking on the enforcer role. Accurate or not the above numbers are indicative of the relative size of the packs. If Ireland don't front up right from the start and at the first scrum it will be a very long day.

Clearlier

Clearlier wrote: »

Is Mike Ross really 127kgs? And Willem Alberts 125 kgs?

Etzebeth is quoted on the SArugby.com website as saying that he will be taking on the enforcer role. Accurate or not the above numbers are indicative of the relative size of the packs. If Ireland don't front up right from the start and at the first scrum it will be a very long day.

Just took a quick look on youtube and I have no difficulty believing he is 125kgs. Seems relatively mobile for his size but he doesn't ride tackles like SOB or break them like Ferris. His main use should be as a straight runner who'll get over the gain line and probably attract two tacklers. If we offer his static targets in defence the stretcher will be coming out on to the pitch. In other words your stereotypical South African bully (rugby playing wise). If we play smart we should keep him out of the game, if we don't we'll make look like a world beater (how's that for sitting on the fence ). Reminds me of Victor Costello actually.

CatFromHue

Clearlier wrote: »

Is Mike Ross really 127kgs? And Willem Alberts 125 kgs?

Etzebeth is quoted on the SArugby.com website as saying that he will be taking on the enforcer role. Accurate or not the above numbers are indicative of the relative size of the packs. If Ireland don't front up right from the start and at the first scrum it will be a very long day.

Other than Kruger all those stats were taken from the respective union websites so you can read what you want into that.

I'm more worried that Francois Louw is a fair bit bigger than all of our back row to be honest. He is a handy player and will cause us a lot of problems I think.

Just looking at the last 4 games of the Rugby Championship that SA pack pretty much started all of them. They may be relatively inexperienced but that they continuity in selection, unlike us!

blindsider

CatFromHue wrote: »

1. Cian Healy 185cm 112kg - Tendai Mtawarira 187cm 118kg
2. Richardt Strauss 175cm 101kg - Adriaan Strauss 184cm 111kg
3. Mike Ross 188cm 127kg - du Plessis 188cm 119kg

4. Donnacha Ryan 198cm 108kg - Eben Etzebeth 203cm 117kg
5. Mike McCarthy 193cm 115kg - Juandré Kruger 198cm 112kg
6. Peter O'Mahony 191cm 108kg - Louw 190 cm 114kg
7. Chris Henry 191cm 107kg - Willem Alberts 194cm 125kg
8. Jamie Heaslip 193cm 109kg - Duane Vermeulen 193cm 108kg

There's a big size difference in the loose five there! I'm not sure how much it matters about our centres to be honest.

Healy won't face the Beast - he's facing du Plessis - Ross will be packing down opposite the Beast. If Ross can get his technique right, and Beast is kept legal we have some hope. McCarthy behind Ross will help. Heaslip needs to push and keep quiet.

Their backrow could savage us at the breakdown - run 'em ragged for the 1st half and we might make some inroads.

Fishooks12

The Beast is hugely overrated tbh. Won't cause Ross much trouble. It's Healy they will have to watch out for

irishbucsfan

I think Wayne Barnes will keep the beast under control. As long as he stays legal I think we'll be fine. Ross is in cracking form as well.

I'm not as worried about their pack as others. I think Etzebeth and Alberts are fantastic players. I think Chris Henry should believe he can beat out Louw, I don't think there's much between them (well definitely not based on their H Cup form last season). Heaslip is the match of Vermeulen and I think we have the better Strauss. I think our pack is definitely more mobile than theirs and I think we can definitely outnumber them in transitional play. For every kilo Alberts has over POM, POM has genuine pace and a real hunger for work that means he should be getting to far more breakdowns. We just can't let them keep the ball for phase after phase and allow them to just pound us into the ground, that's where their strength will be. Heaslip and Henry will be key to that I guess (even a bit of D'Arcy shenanigans!).

It really is up to our halfbacks to ensure the game is played in a way that highlights our pack's strengths and hopefully finds and exposes a few of their pack's weaknesses. Time for both of them to stand up and be counted at international level, they both need a big game.

Podge_irl

CatFromHue wrote: »

1. Cian Healy 185cm 112kg - Tendai Mtawarira 187cm 118kg
2. Richardt Strauss 175cm 101kg - Adriaan Strauss 184cm 111kg
3. Mike Ross 188cm 127kg - du Plessis 188cm 119kg

4. Donnacha Ryan 198cm 108kg - Eben Etzebeth 203cm 117kg
5. Mike McCarthy 193cm 115kg - Juandré Kruger 198cm 112kg
6. Peter O'Mahony 191cm 108kg - Louw 190 cm 114kg
7. Chris Henry 191cm 107kg - Willem Alberts 194cm 125kg
8. Jamie Heaslip 193cm 109kg - Duane Vermeulen 193cm 108kg

There's a big size difference in the loose five there! I'm not sure how much it matters about our centres to be honest.

Size only tells you so much. I wouldn't worry about Healy or Ryan when it comes to the physical exchanges and Strauss and McCarthy are hardly shrinking violets. The sheer power that Healy, Ryan and Strauss possess overcomes their comparatively small size.

Hook questioning Heaslip's control at the base just further reinforces the point that he is, at this stage, a complete moron not worth listening to. Interestingly, he is less ridiculous on the Pro12 coverage - potentially because of the smaller audience and him not being asked to be "controversial". This is not a comment in his favour - it just emphasises that he is pathetic pundit.

McFadden is not a 13 and I would hope that him being played there is near an end.

bilston

CatFromHue wrote: »

1. Cian Healy 185cm 112kg - Tendai Mtawarira 187cm 118kg
2. Richardt Strauss 175cm 101kg - Adriaan Strauss 184cm 111kg
3. Mike Ross 188cm 127kg - du Plessis 188cm 119kg

4. Donnacha Ryan 198cm 108kg - Eben Etzebeth 203cm 117kg
5. Mike McCarthy 193cm 115kg - Juandré Kruger 198cm 112kg
6. Peter O'Mahony 191cm 108kg - Louw 190 cm 114kg
7. Chris Henry 191cm 107kg - Willem Alberts 194cm 125kg
8. Jamie Heaslip 193cm 109kg - Duane Vermeulen 193cm 108kg

There's a big size difference in the loose five there! I'm not sure how much it matters about our centres to be honest.

The back row is very small in comparison but its alright we have the baby faced assassin on the bench whose stats say is 116kg and 6'6" (others can convert to cms).

Alberts is ridiculously big though.

thomond2006

Fishooks12 wrote: »

The Beast is hugely overrated tbh. Won't cause Ross much trouble. It's Healy they will have to watch out for

I'd still want him at Munster so I could roar BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAST

.ak

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

have you never even watched a game of rugby????????

if ireland just keep kicking goals, then SA dont stand a chance because ireland will spend 75-79 minutes kicking goals and winning the match!!!!!!!!!!!

Journeyman_1 banned for 2 days. Jesting/Trolling/Whatever, there was already a warning issued about these kind of posts.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd still want him at Munster so I could roar BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAST

Why can't you do that with Archer? :pac:

twinytwo

Clearlier wrote: »

Is Mike Ross really 127kgs? And Willem Alberts 125 kgs?

Have you ever seen him he is a tree, im amazed how they even get the jersey on him.:D

Im actually looking forward to this game.. just to see can we play with only healy and sexton left from what i would consider to be our core players.

Interestingly i was listening to the radio the other day, and they said the reason behind players having so many injuries now, especially pelvis and hip is down to lifting too much weight when they were young with crappy technique

liammur

If the boks are serious about this game I expect our pack to be bullied about. This is my main worry.

Fishooks12

liammur wrote: »

If the boks are serious about this game I expect our pack to be bullied about. This is my main worry.

Of course they'll be serious about the game. It's an international test.

I think they'll have the edge up front but I can't really see us getting battered.

liammur

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Of course they'll be serious about the game. It's an international test.

I think they'll have the edge up front but I can't really see us getting battered.

I know what you are saying, but I've seen the boks in international tests and they didn't want to know. For this reason alone, they are not a team I'd be betting on.

.ak

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Of course they'll be serious about the game. It's an international test.

I think they'll have the edge up front but I can't really see us getting battered.

It's a possibility, a big one. Bigger pack, and SA are known to be able to push around any pack infront of them.

The key to the game is not to get sucked into that, we need to play smarter rugby than them, we need to get it away from the fringes, skip defenders and try and get a few strike runners to pull numbers across the pitch, and most of all we have to be patient.

If we get into a 'my forwards are bigger than yours' debate on the field we're snookered.

liammur

.ak wrote: »

It's a possibility, a big one. Bigger pack, and SA are known to be able to push around any pack infront of them.

The key to the game is not to get sucked into that, we need to play smarter rugby than them, we need to get it away from the fringes, skip defenders and try and get a few strike runners to pull numbers across the pitch, and most of all we have to be patient.

If we get into a 'my forwards are bigger than yours' debate on the field we're snookered.

I would agree with this, it's for this reason, Reddan may been the wiser option, even if his tackling is suspect. Quick ball is needed today.

.ak

Aye, I think the game plan is to move the ball quick. Heaslip hinted at keeping the ball in hand and seeing if they're 'able to live with us' at the team announcement.

Reddan would be the ideal pick for that, but there's no point in crying over spilled milk - the team is the team, and for all we know Murray's speed and delivery may be notched up a few gears for this game.

Pudsy33

The beast is out, according to balls.ie. Heart palpitations, which doesn't sound good.

Fishooks12

Pudsy33 wrote: »

The beast is out, according to balls.ie. Heart palpitations, which doesn't sound good.

Jesus, hope he's ok

Clearlier

twinytwo wrote: »

Have you ever seen him he is a tree, im amazed how they even get the jersey on him.:D

Im actually looking forward to this game.. just to see can we play with only healy and sexton left from what i would consider to be our core players.

Interestingly i was listening to the radio the other day, and they said the reason behind players having so many injuries now, especially pelvis and hip is down to lifting too much weight when they were young with crappy technique

I haven't seen him up close actually but now that you mention it I do remember noting that his jersey hasn't always fitted him perfectly. Still 127kgs is big even for a tight head.

Any idea who it was that said that about the hips and pelvis? I ask because I see it as something of a cop-out explanation and I've been hearing variations on it (they trained badly as children) since as far back as I can remember. I'm interested in knowing who because if it's Joe public sports doctor then it doesn't matter but if it's the head of S&C for one of the provinces then it's a semi-fatalistic attitude that concerns me.

durkadurka

Cj will play at loose head . Blimey Leinster all over the front rows

Glass Prison 1214

durkadurka wrote: »

Cj will play at loose head . Blimey Leinster all over the front rows

Does that mean Heinke VDM will be on the bench?

irishbucsfan

Rumour has it that Heinke Van Der Merwe will come onto the bench to replace whoever starts in place of the Beast.

Would be interesting if CJ started for them with Heinke on the bench... Feek would know their LHs inside out!

yimrsg

Louw is a decent fetcher but Coetzee is a better at the breakdown, Meyer probably selected Louw because of the long season the Sharks players had and he favours bigger players. Also he's probably familiar with the Irish players. Vermuelen is handy enough, can do it all in the backrow and is only recently back from missing a large portion of the season through injury. Alberts looks a lot better playing for the Sharks than the national side; where too often he'll drive into contact rather than attempt to break tackles. Though saying that he was moved into second row (ahead of Sykes) to accommodate Kankowski who was playing a blinder at 6 for the second half of the Super 15.

Meyer is still trying to find the right balance in the back row and hasn't managed to get a cohesive unit working together. He's tried dropping in the Sharks backrow in as a unit (Coetzee, Alberts & Daniel) without success as they're not suited to his Blue bulls bulldozer approach. I reckon if Smit, Burger and Spies were fit he'd have tried them in there. I don't think he'll find a backrow that clicks for the International side as he's playing such antiquated tactics with the forwards though saying that he's got loads of talented players at his disposal to try.

I think their pack to me looks a little leaderless without Bekker and Bismarck. Strauss captains his club side but he'd be behind Tian Liebenberg and well behind Bismarck ability wise. Cilliers is a pretty decent tight head and Kilcoyne will have his hands full with him. CJ looked like a spent force with the Lions but he could still be dangerous in a cameo appearance. Etzebeth needs an experienced head to tell him what to do and I don't think Kruger is all that great, he's a stop gap till the promising young Saffa locks catch up to Etzebeth's level. A key advantage the Saffa forwards have is Pienaar is a fantastic organiser and can really control a strong pack.

thomond2006

My best wishes go out to Tendai, that's worrying news.

En route to Dublin now, cracking weather. Hopefully it will stay that way.

twinytwo

Clearlier wrote: »

I haven't seen him up close actually but now that you mention it I do remember noting that his jersey hasn't always fitted him perfectly. Still 127kgs is big even for a tight head.

Any idea who it was that said that about the hips and pelvis? I ask because I see it as something of a cop-out explanation and I've been hearing variations on it (they trained badly as children) since as far back as I can remember. I'm interested in knowing who because if it's Joe public sports doctor then it doesn't matter but if it's the head of S&C for one of the provinces then it's a semi-fatalistic attitude that concerns me.

tbh i cant remember who the perosn was doctor or otherwise, but it defo wasnt anyone involved with the provinces

twinytwo

liammur wrote: »

If the boks are serious about this game I expect our pack to be bullied about. This is my main worry.

they did any interview with someone from most of the teams before the last WC and made a magazine thingy, they asked them who they considered to be the hardest hitter in world rugby, everyone except one player said either bakkies botha or schalk burger.... neither are playing so i sleep a little easier:D

thomond2006

Planet Rugby says Heinke VDM will be on the bench now.

Exile_22

Have been looking forward to this match, good to see a nice team selected. Actually looking forward to seeing what Zebo can do from fullback, hoping the space provided to him from the position will allow him to spot some gaps in their defence. Would be slightly concerned at him defending there since it's his first but I reckon the Boks will simply try and batter us over our own line. Here's hoping Henry can step up from his great HC form and deliver on the international stage, we'll need him.

Sad to hear about the Beast, hoping it isn't too serious. Also hoping Heinke VDM performs well if he gets a run (But not too well!!!).

Emperor1989

The beast is out but that prob helps the South African scrum as he is hit and miss. What they will lose is a big ball carrier and hard worker in defense.

It looks a very nice day in North Dublin dry and chilly so it won't be a muck fest that one may have thought earlier in the week.

I had haven't really changed my mind from yesterday, I believe South Africa will win by around 14 points or so. Hopefully though it will be a smashing game and looking forward to going to see it now. I love these November Internationals:D

danthefan

Emperor1989 wrote: »

The beast is out but that prob helps the South African scrum as he is hit and miss. What they will lose is a big ball carrier and hard worker in defense.

It looks a very nice day in North Dublin dry and chilly so it won't be a muck fest that one may have thought earlier in the week.

I had haven't really changed my mind from yesterday, I believe South Africa will win by around 14 points or so. Hopefully though it will be a smashing game and looking forward to going to see it now. I love these November Internationals:D

Yes I'm being a pedant here but the standard of playing surfaces these days, particularly for international games, means you need absolutely biblical rain for it to be a "muck fest". We'd have seen a very slippy ball and surface but that's about it.

Emperor1989

Remember the first match in the Aviva against South Africa, it was pretty shocking conditions.

JRant

I reckon this will be one for the purist's out there.
Is there a top teir team worse than Ireland with ball in hand? I think not.

Hope I'm wrong about today but your only as good as your last result, as they say.
Heart says Ireland.
Head says SA by +7.

tolosenc

4 starting front rows from the same school, 7 who either do or did play for Leinster.

Familiarity or what?

durkadurka

tolosenc wrote: »

4 starting front rows from the same school, 7 who either do or did play for Leinster.

Familiarity or what?

Regrettably only one of the seven is an actual leinsterman and only three are genuinely Irish. Shape of things to come.

bilston

Emperor1989 wrote: »

Remember the first match in the Aviva against South Africa, it was pretty shocking conditions.

Depends on your definition of shocking. From memory (and I only watched it on tv ) it was foggy and cold rather than wet and windy.

Fishooks12

JRant wrote: »

I reckon this will be one for the purist's out there.
Is there a top teir team worse than Ireland with ball in hand? I think not.

Hope I'm wrong about today but your only as good as your last result, as they say.
Heart says Ireland.
Head says SA by +7.

Italy, Scotland, Argentina are much worse than us with ball in hand. We only look bad because we haven't had a backs coach for the last year

JRant

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Italy, Scotland, Argentina are much worse than us with ball in hand. We only look bad because we haven't had a backs coach for the last year

I thought Argentina looked very good at times during the rugby championship, scored some lovely tries and are not afraid to take the drop at goal if its on.

I'll give you Scotland and Italy but there's not a lot in it imo. You know things are bad when you have to pull them out of the bag as a comparison.

Max Power

I think Ireland will nick it, 22-20. 2 trys from Zebo.

Grimebox

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

I think Ireland will nick it, 22-20. 2 trys from Zebo.

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up in these Ireland matches. Zebo to have a shocker. Earls to move to 15 and McFadden to come on in 13.

irishbucsfan

Grimebox wrote: »

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up in these Ireland matches. Zebo to have a shocker. Earls to move to 15 and McFadden to come on in 13.

That's the spirit!

RichieD

Does anyone know is this being show on RTE player??

Or anywhere else I can watch it outside the country?

irishbucsfan

RichieD wrote: »

Does anyone know is this being show on RTE player??

Or anywhere else I can watch it outside the country?

If you're in the UK it's on BBC 2.

If not I'm not sure

RichieD

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you're in the UK it's on BBC 2.

If not I'm not sure

No im afraid not

molloyjh

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Italy, Scotland, Argentina are much worse than us with ball in hand. We only look bad because we haven't had a backs coach for the last year

Did you see Argentina today? They weren't perfect but there were def improvements with ball in hand. Some really nice offloading and handling. Italy and Scotland are quite poor though all right.

phog

C'mon Ireland. We need the win more than ever now with the Pumas beating Wales.

Tough to see Contepomi leaving the field through an injury, looks like he wont be available for our game.

Fishooks12

molloyjh wrote: »

Did you see Argentina today? They weren't perfect but there were def improvements with ball in hand. Some really nice offloading and handling. Italy and Scotland are quite poor though all right.

Ha, infairness the Argies were very bad in the first half bar one break! Shocked me in the second though! Very good with the ball!

Look I think the whole us being bad with the ball is a moot point anyway considering we didn't have a backs coach for a year and the guy who's in charge of the whole mess not having a clue!

Fishooks12

Stoll looking forward to this! Just hoping the thread doesn't descend into a ****storm of people taking pot shots at players if things aren't going our way

rudiger2.0

RichieD wrote: »

No im afraid not

Go to filmon, you can watch the english channels there. Works for me, just watched the Wales game