Man City (Away) - 11.11.12

MrKingsley

Only saw the second half yesterday but my god it was awful.

I thought Ade was useless to be honest. Didnt hold onto the ball at all.

The thing that stood out for me most was the poor quality of our passing. Its not like city were pressing like mad and we were still missing our targets from 15-20 yards away. It was pathetic.

We had the players to win the game yesterday but not with the right attitudes

mickman

MrKingsley wrote: »

Only saw the second half yesterday but my god it was awful.

I thought Ade was useless to be honest. Didnt hold onto the ball at all.

The thing that stood out for me most was the poor quality of our passing. Its not like city were pressing like mad and we were still missing our targets from 15-20 yards away. It was pathetic.

We had the players to win the game yesterday but not with the right attitudes

Ade was one of our best players yesterday

Sugarlumps

That's the thing we're creating sweet fock all, bar the first 45 minutes of the Utd game they've been shocking. When we go up 1-0 the team recoil.

God knows what AVB doddles in his notepad, he looks content for us to be camped in our own half. Defoe scores a hat-trick midweek while Dempsey completes 90 minutes.

Bale had a off day yesterday, it happens. But leaving Vertonghen exposed shouldn't. He looked like he was going to drop dead.

It could of been a masacre, only poor finishing from City made the score look respectable.

Playing the high line is suicide, it didn't work at Chelsea.

We play Arsenal on Saturday who are leaking goals and look a shambles at times, we need to play two up top and go for jugular. If we lose that game and show no fight, then the pressue will mount for the next two home games.

Leinstersqspur

I think this article sums it up pretty well (although it doesn't explain our poor passing):

What many Tottenham fans seem to have forgotten is that Harry Redknapp rarely played with Defoe and Adebayor together either. He played with Rafael van der Vaart behind Adebayor in the role that Nolan is playing so well for West Ham but Cisse is struggling in for Newcastle.
As out-and-out strikers, I doubt either Defoe or Adebayor would prove a great success in the role for Spurs.

Against weaker teams which Spurs will dominate Villas-Boas could possibly afford to partner his two strikers, but Manchester City certainly do not fall into that category. I'd love to hear these critics of Villas-Boas explain how Sandro and Tom Huddlestone could have coped with Gareth Barry, Yaya Toure, David Silva, Sergio Aguero, all of whom spent plenty of time in the middle, if they did not have Clint Dempsey dropping off to help them out.
Dempsey is taking the brunt of the criticism from Spurs fans and it is not completely unjustified as, while he is working hard for the team, he has not shown too much in the way of quality going forward.

The differences between Redknapp's 4-4-1-1 and Villas-Boas' 4-2-3-1 are minimal. There are still two central midfield players, Gareth Bale and Aaron Lennon are still playing wide, and there is still only one out-and-out striker in the team.

The only real difference is that Dempsey has struggled to fill the boots of Rafael van der Vaart as the man linking midfield and attack. Unfortunately for Villas-Boas, so has Gylfi Sigurdsson in his appearances.
Throw in the injury to Mousa Dembele - Tom Huddlestone was very poor against City - and also the absences of Benoit Assou-Ekotto and Scott Parker, and you may begin to realise that Spurs' problem is not necessarily a tactical one.

They lost a number of big players over the summer, and not all of their replacements have hit the ground running. One that did, Dembele, is one of a number of injuries they have had to deal with - and all this while the team tries to get used to a slightly different way of playing under a new manager.
Villas-Boas is not a 4-4-2 advocate, and that's because he's an extremely good manager who has suffered some bad luck and needs time to get things right at White Hart Lane.

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/24685/8244450/Monday-Moan-AVB-too-clever-to-use-4-4-2

Hatch99

As annoyed as I still am about yesterday, I still won't jump on the managers back. We need to get a decent partner for Sandro fit, and we also need BAE fit soon,because as I pointed out after the chelsea game, vert is struggling at full back badly.

I thought Adebayor done very well, and Bale only got going in the last 10 minutes :rolleyes:

MrKingsley

mickman wrote: »

Ade was one of our best players yesterday

To me we just never had the ball. On the rare occasions we did in our half it was given away by sandro or thudd. But in their half ADE didnt hold onto it at all. Maybe i was just expecting more from him but I really dont agree with you.

It really was painful to watch in general. I wouldnt even say that we had a best player. Maybe joe hart for getting our hopes up

Leinstersqspur

MrKingsley wrote: »

But in their half ADE didnt hold onto it at all. Maybe i was just expecting more from him but I really dont agree with you.

Sandro and Adebayor were our two best players.

DubPerryman

Leinstersqspur wrote: »

Villas-Boas is not a 4-4-2 advocate, and that's because he's an extremely good manager who has suffered some bad luck and needs time to get things right at White Hart Lane.

I think this sums up my feeling pretty well.

If Harry had gone to The Etihad last season without Modric and VDV we would have been slaughtered. AVB has has come in to a club whose team is weaker than the previous season and is already doing a better job than the previous management who had a stronger squad.

Harry went to The Etihad with a stronger team and conceded three.
AVB has a poorer squad - without VDV, Modric and King - on top of the injuries this season (Kaboul, BAE, Parker and Dembele) and only conceded two.

I think Levy will back AVB in the next window and the squad's strength will be improved entering the final half of the season. It would have already been strengthened if it wasn't for the transfer windows.

When AVB's luck turns and players come back from injury and when the window opens, you'll see a change in our fortunes.

SuprSi

I thought Ade was excellent. Him and Sandro stood out for me. Lennon & Bale were crap, Walker was alright and Dempsey & Hudd were crap as well.

We simply have too many players unable to perform as we expect (or I'd hope the manager) and it's killing the team. Dempsey, whether it's inability or lack of form, is just not working. He can run around and get stuck in, but he offers absolutely zero creativity or endeavour when attacking the goal. Hudd is so slow and it was obvious yesterday when Tevez/Aguero/Silva/etc glided past him on multiple occasions. To be fair, they're all brilliant quick players, but still, it wasn't good enough. A few times I thought Friedel should've been quicker off his line too, something Lloris is very good at.

On the positive side of things, I thought Caulker did well again and I think Kaboul will have a hard time getting back into the squad once Benny is fit as Verts will go back to CB. Sandro was excellent and it was amazing to see the difference having someone like Ade on the pitch offers over Defoe. He brings the team into it much more and allows players like Bale and Lennon to become more involved, though it didn't happen yesterday as both of the aforementioned players were having an off day.

Away to Arsenal next, which is never easy but I think the team is set up correctly for away games and we might do ok there, as long as the players, individually (this is the key part) pick themselves up as they're letting themselves, their teammates and manager and most importantly the fans down.

Sugarlumps

I don't think we'll buy anyone whose going to change our current predicament in January as no club wants to lose there best players. Plus you end up paying way over the odds, unlikely Levy will dip into his bulge.

Sandro summed up the kind of player needed at Tottenham yesterday.

I'm not exactly a fanboy of Ade, but he put in one hell of a shift.

Any idea when Dembele will be back?

MrKingsley

Difference of opinion so. Ade gave the ball away time and time again and sandro distribution was awful i thought. Im just talking from an offensive point of view. Defensively he was immense and Ade did put in a shift to be fair

The one thing i just couldnt get over yesterday (again only saw the second half) was how easily we gave the ball away. that cant continue

SuprSi

MrKingsley wrote: »

Difference of opinion so. Ade gave the ball away time and time again and sandro distribution was awful i thought. Im just talking from an offensive point of view. Defensively he was immense and Ade did put in a shift to be fair

The one thing i just couldnt get over yesterday (again only saw the second half) was how easily we gave the ball away. that cant continue

You're dead right with this. The amount of forward passes that wouldn't even be considered difficult being intercepted was shocking. It breaks all forward momentum and effectively finishes any attack, putting the defence under pressure again. Sort of the same as passing to Dempsey The frustrating thing is that the lads weren't even under huge pressure making these passes!

It's the usual suspects each time though and they've all played enough this season that if they haven't fixed it by now, they might not be able to fix it at all.

Kold

DubPerryman wrote: »

Harry went to The Etihad with a stronger team and conceded three.
AVB has a poorer squad - without VDV, Modric and King - on top of the injuries this season (Kaboul, BAE, Parker and Dembele) and only conceded two.

Imo, that's more down to City not doing as well as they should have on their attacks rather than Spurs system working out. The last 2 games have shown me that AVB doesn't seem to have a way of changing the game when it starts to go against him. Harry was similar, loved to sit on a one goal lead and let the team sit back and absorb pressure. History has told us that you can't just let a team pound on you for an hour. Yet with two defensive midfielders out of 5, that's just what we're doing (I'm calling Hudd a defensive midfielder because I'm still unsure what he's brought to the team this year apart from the free kick). Is it just me or did Hudd used to be good at holding the ball up and passing? Anyway, the plan seems to always be, run down the wings and ding in crosses... to the single 5'7" striker who is incredibly easy to muscle off the ball.

If you ask me, the score was flattering to Spurs and if City were on form, it would've been a bigger margin.

DubPerryman

Kold wrote: »

History has told us that you can't just let a team pound on you for an hour. Yet with two defensive midfielders out of 5, that's just what we're doing?

In fairness we have nobody else to come in. I'm sure that AVB saw that the above was an issue and that's why he told Levy to go after Moutinho.

Kold wrote: »

Anyway, the plan seems to always be, run down the wings and ding in crosses... to the single 5'7" striker who is incredibly easy to muscle off the ball.

I think supports my idea that AVB has been unlucky with injuries. Up to now he's really only had one striker and two very direct wingers. Bale and Lennon's best asset is getting to the byline and crossing the ball - which is perfect for Adebayor, but he hasn't been fit.

Unfortunately AVB hasn't had intelligent wingers who can adapt to a smaller man. I think this will change when AVB has the chance to bring the likes of a Willian in - who can play wide and attack centrally.

KingdomYid

DubPerryman wrote: »

Unfortunately AVB hasn't had intelligent wingers who can adapt to a smaller man. I think this will change when AVB has the chance to bring the likes of a Willian in - who can play wide and attack centrally.

Unfortunately I don't think Levy will splash any significant cash in January, and Willian won't be going near us as he will still have CL football and will be looking for a club challenging for serious honours.

DubPerryman

KingdomYid wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't think Levy will splash any significant cash in January, and Willian won't be going near us as he will still have CL football and will be looking for a club challenging for serious honours.

I wasn't specifically saying Willian will come in, I just said a player 'like' Willian - who can play wide and through the middle. I think AVB will bring in more adaptable and intelligent players.

As for Levy not backing him? I think DL has to back AVB. Adebayor will be at the African Cup of Nations in January. If we don't buy a striker in January we're in serious trouble for the run in. I hope the targets have already been picked and sounded out.

One report during the week suggested Huntelaar has agreed terms with a Premier League club. I think he'd fit the bill. His contract is up in the Summer, so Schalke will want to sell in January and we would get a relative bargain. Hopefully Schalke go out of the CL at the group stage (looks unlikely). If they did, it would make the transfer all the more realistic.