N86 scheme

skyfall2012

Traleespud is making sense and fushia is a weed it will grow again.

traleespud

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/n86-plan-could-be-delayed-by-20-years-if-refused-by-an-bord-pleanala/

From Radio Kerry news report

N86 plan could be delayed by 20 years if refused by An Bord Pleanala
Monday, November 19th, 2012 at 1:52 pm.


Any major upgrade to a west Kerry road would be delayed by up to 20 years if An Bord Pleanala turns down plans by Kerry County Council.

That’s according to the authority’s Director of Roads Charlie O’Sullivan who was speaking about the N86 project at the council’s monthly meeting.

Mr O’Sullivan said he would be very disappointed if An Bord Pleanala refused to grant permission for the plan.



The planning appeals board held an oral hearing earlier this year into the 65 million euro project to upgrade 28 kilometres of the N86 between Dingle, Annascaul and Gortbreagoge to Camp.

After consideration An Bord Pleanala ordered Kerry County Council to return to the drawing board and remove cycleways from the plan and reduce the width of the proposed alignment.

Following a question from Councillor Seamus Cosaí Fitzgearld at the monthly council meeting, Director of Roads Charlie O’Sullivan said they are seeking advice both legal and from the National Roads Authority before making their submission to An Bord Pleanala.

He said a similar project was approved in Donegal by the board.

Mr O’Sullivan added the suggestion to use part of the Dingle way for cyclists was being considered but some parts of this were not suitable.

Meanwhile, councillors voted in favour of extinguishing public rights of way in several townlands as part of the Annascaul to Gortbreagoe Road Improvement Scheme on which work is continuing.

kingdumb

I presume the reason that the media were focusing on cyclists was because they were the only ones to publicly welcomed the decision, I wonder if they even bothered to followed up with the tour operators, West Kerry groups an farmers who they have previously reported as having issues with the plans ?

I agree with you concern about the level of spending on this project in a time of cut backs, but as mentioned before a good greenway would see a return to the exchequer [and a saving on health cost] within years while a road would take decades to see a return.

It is worth remembering that this is a 'tourist' project, no offence to engineers but I am not too sure if they are they best people to be tasked to build a tourist attraction, it is not what they are trained for.

We can't afford to sit on our seats and expect tourist to come here any more we got to provided quality attractions and facilities, the potential in West Kerry for cycling and walking route is massive.

traleespud wrote: »

In my opinion (which I am entitled to)

Sorry i didn't realise there was an issue with free speech, am I missing something?

kingdumb

Why not make the most of what we have to offer...


1. Remove ivy
2. Resurface the track bed
3. Take photo of happy walkers and cyclists on bridge
4. Stick on cover of tourist guide
5. ??
6. Profit

Repeat..

traleespud

All well and good, however I still see this as a totally different project. The amount of work it would take to bring a greenway up to a suitable standard with correct surfacing is huge. From what I've read on some threads here cyclists are quiet fussy about surface depending on bike types etc. I appreciate there may be a return to the exchequer however I think now is not the time to be investing in risky projects like this.

Farmers and landowners have every right to object and have issues they own the land. Tourist operators also have well established business which they are worried about loosing. Its a given really on any project like this that there would be discussions with farmers and landowners.

Any concerns any of these groups have can be worked into or around the current scheme by narrowing a particular section, changing the direction of a bend or building under passes for farmers.

The cyclist groups however are looking for something totally seperate than making a few changes to the current project. What they want is a different route altogether.

I would love to see a dedicated greenway in place. It would quite obviously be a huge attraction for tourists no doubt. I think cycling groups have gone about it the wrong way however, they should let the roads be built allow for progression and stop objecting and holding projects like the N86 at ransom. The project is now at the risk of loosing funding or being severely delayed.

Cyclists should make a separate case to the NRA about a dedicated route of greenways and lobby that way. I would support this and I'm sure many others would also.

galwaycyclist

I am doing this.from my phone which is awkward. Ok a main reason for cyclists opposing this scheme is not just that it would be bad for Kerry but it would be bad for the country.

The links below concern the Connemara greenway which is also in planning at the moment. If you read the Cycling submission it covers the same ground that was covered in Dingle.

If you read the council response under further information it is clear that their main reason for not providing a proper greenway is because the NRA are going for a similar design with the N59 as they were proposing for the N86.

The N86 scheme and the approach behind it represents a demonstrable threat to the strategic economic interests of the local community and the state.

Even if there are local people in favour of the N86 going ahead it is in the national interest that it be stopped.

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The Oral hearing on the Connemara Greenway has been put back to the 11th of December.

The EIS and files relating to the planning observations are here on the county council website.

http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/ConnemaraGreenway/
http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/ConnemaraGreenway/FurtherInformation/
http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/ConnemaraGreenway/AnBordPleanalaSubmissions/

The particular Galway Cycling Campaign/Cyclist.ie observations on the proposed scheme are here (4mb). The observations made would tie-in to the similar issues that were raised over the N86 scheme in Kerry.

http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/ConnemaraGreenway/AnBordPleanalaSubmissions/FilesTable/Irelands%20National%20Cycling%20Lobby%20Group.pdf

kingdumb

Am I correct in my understanding of what you are saying ?

It is ok to spend €65 million on a road that will bring little revenue to the exchequer, could have negative impact on tourism [ one of the main economics of the area] and issues were also raised by farmers [agriculture, the other big economy of the area] but it is 'too risky' to develop a greenway which could help both economies and probably pay for itself within a few years ?

traleespud wrote: »

The amount of work it would take to bring a greenway up to a suitable standard with correct surfacing is huge.

The cost of building the road is huge, a greenway not so huge, as far as I know the recommendation was to make use lightly trafficed back-roads, the railway track bed and the dingle way.

The railway bed and most of the Dingle way is already compacted stone, and back-road are already surfaced.

traleespud wrote: »

From what I've read on some threads here cyclists are quiet fussy about surface depending on bike types etc.

No idea who/wher you are referring to here but I suspect that if it is sports/racing cyclists, the route surface would matter to them a they will still be on the road !

traleespud wrote: »

All well and good, however I still see this as a totally different project. The amount of work it would take to bring a greenway up to a suitable standard with correct surfacing is huge. From what I've read on some threads here cyclists are quiet fussy about surface depending on bike types etc. I appreciate there may be a return to the exchequer however I think now is not the time to be investing in risky projects like this.

Farmers and landowners have every right to object and have issues they own the land. Tourist operators also have well established business which they are worried about loosing. Its a given really on any project like this that there would be discussions with farmers and landowners.

Any concerns any of these groups have can be worked into or around the current scheme by narrowing a particular section, changing the direction of a bend or building under passes for farmers.

The cyclist groups however are looking for something totally seperate than making a few changes to the current project. What they want is a different route altogether.

I would love to see a dedicated greenway in place. It would quite obviously be a huge attraction for tourists no doubt. I think cycling groups have gone about it the wrong way however, they should let the roads be built allow for progression and stop objecting and holding projects like the N86 at ransom. The project is now at the risk of loosing funding or being severely delayed.

Cyclists should make a separate case to the NRA about a dedicated route of greenways and lobby that way. I would support this and I'm sure many others would also.

skyfall2012

Did anybody hear the rumour that the upgrade of the N86 has got to do with the oil find off the coast.
http://www.kerryman.ie/news/oil-find-must-give-jobs-to-kerry-3298095.html

I heard that ages ago, but thought they were crazy! Then the details of the oil find were in this weeks paper. Paper is stating Fenit being the port to bring it into, but that is 'mar yea' in discussion.
I was always suspicious of this upgrade to a road that was, very busy during the boom with people driving to and from work, they could have done with a better road. Then bust, not so many people on the road because of massive job losses and the rest! Then suddenly this major road upgrade?!
So this upgrade is preparing the road for heavy oil industry related trucks using the road on regular basis.
I would argue that if this is true, then there is plenty of money for proper road upgrade, placing footpath's in villages on N86 and the cyclist's greenway and the county council should exploit this situation to get those improvements done.

If people living on the N86 have to put up with large volume's of trucks hauling oil in from the coast, they should be compensated for this by improving their ability to earn a living, which would mostly be in the Tourism sector, therefore improvements done as outlined above.

traleespud

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/county-manager-urges-objectors-to-n86-road-improvements-to-get-behind-the-project/

Lets hope the locals and those not so local will welcome the new plans. Further delays will surely jeopardise funding.

kingdumb

Any one have any idea if the new plans have been published anywhere ?

traleespud wrote: »

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/county-manager-urges-objectors-to-n86-road-improvements-to-get-behind-the-project/

Lets hope the locals and those not so local will welcome the new plans. Further delays will surely jeopardise funding.

traleespud

From RK website yesterday!!

Kerry County Council resubmitted plans for the N86 Dingle to Annascaul and Gortbreagoge to Camp Road Improvement Scheme to An Bord Pleanala on June 18th. The 65 million euro project proposes to straighten and widen 28 kilometres of road. A three day oral hearing into the scheme was held in May last year. An Bord Pleanala ordered Kerry County Council resubmit their plans and find alternative cycleways. The board says it has received the new information from the council and is considering it. No time frame has been outlined but among the possible recommendations are a period of public consultation or reopening the oral hearing.

galwaycyclist

An Bord Pleanala have rejected the revised proposals. This is a huge victory for common sense.

traleespud

galwaycyclist wrote: »

An Bord Pleanala have rejected the revised proposals. This is a huge victory for common sense.

That'll prob put an end to that scheme at this rate will it???? Surely the funding will now be channelled else where considering the delays!!!

It may be a victory in some sense, but it will inevitably have a knock on effect to some of the industries in west Kerry particularly the fishing industry.

Mrs Dempsey

There are two sides to this for sure.
When I drive to Dingle a better road would be great.
When I cycle to Dingle (I do occasionally) a quiet route would be great.
However I'd prefer to cycle a tranquil seperate rural road than on an an additional parallel strip, running alongside of the national route - I know its segretated but it's not exactly "getting away from the bustle of the highway".

The road needs improved - dedicated cycle routes would assist things but they need not be intimately aligned.

kingdumb

Has anyone seen the plans that were resubmitted ?

I think Kerry CoCo have a lot to answer for [it's a pity they were banned] anyone else hear that they have also lost the € 1/4 million funding for the Tralee - Fenit cycleway ?

Clab mor

Commercial Court overrules An Bord Pleanála decision to block improvements to N86
Friday, April 11th, 2014 at 1:53 pm.


The Commercial Court has overruled a decision to prevent improvements to a west Kerry road.

In 2012, An Bord Pleanála blocked plans by Kerry County Council to further upgrade the main N86 Tralee to Dingle road.

The decision of the Commercial Court has been welcomed by Deputies Brendan Griffin and Michael Healy-Rae.

The €65m road improvement scheme proposed to straighten and widen 28km of road, and also included dedicated cycle tracks.

An Bord Pleanála based its decision to refuse permission for the changes, saying they would represent an excessive intervention into the landscape.

Kerry County Council suggested there were inconsistencies in An Bord Pleanála’s conclusion, and sought a judicial review into the decision.

At the Commercial Court in Dublin today Justice Peter Charleton quashed the decision of Bord Pleanála to refuse the Compulsory Purchase Order for the N86 Road Improvement Scheme.

The matter has been adjourned to May 2nd, to consider the next steps in the process.

Kerry County Council welcomes the ruling of Justice Peter Charleton and will take time to examine his written ruling over the coming days.


Good to see some sense prevailing here!!! Hopefully the delay won't jeapordise the project altogether.

what_traffic

Clab mor wrote: »

Commercial Court overrules An Bord Pleanála decision to block improvements to N86
Friday, April 11th, 2014 at 1:53 pm.

@Clab mor
Were did you copy and paste that piece from?

Was it really the Commercial Court?

The IT reported last Friday it was the High Court.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/bord-pleanala-failed-to-consider-cyclists-in-kerry-road-ruling-1.1759410

Clab mor

what_traffic wrote: »

@Clab mor
Were did you copy and paste that piece from?

Was it really the Commercial Court?

The IT reported last Friday it was the High Court.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/bord-pleanala-failed-to-consider-cyclists-in-kerry-road-ruling-1.1759410

Straight from Radio Kerry website

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/commercial-court-overrules-an-bord-pleanala-decision-to-block-improvements-to-n86/

weisses

Clab mor wrote: »

Commercial Court overrules An Bord Pleanála decision to block improvements to N86
Friday, April 11th, 2014 at 1:53 pm.

Very good news !!