McClean refuses to wear poppy

born2bwild

Martin O'Neill didn't have one on today either - I can't see how anyone from the nationalist side of Derry would wear one - perfectly understandable.

Boskowski

I understand it may have a different slant in Ireland but it's origin is not all British and for me it stands for remembering how stupid war is and the senseless maiming of millions of young lives. I find it hard to understand how anyone would not want to support that kind of message.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fair play to McClean, the poppy fascists will have a field day though

A Dub in Glasgo

TheBuilder wrote: »

So few on the streets? I disagree, I live in Glasgow and the vast majority wear them, hundreds of people pass through my work everyday, the majority wearing one.

I live in Glasgow and I would guess 25% of people wear one

shanec1928

TheBuilder wrote: »

There is no pressure on everyone in Britain to wear one, that's a fallacy.

In saying that, McLean comes across as nothing but an attention seeker, and this does nothing to help his cause. He's a 'hero' to Irish people now according to many Facebook pages.

McClean......

BhoscaCapall

Can't possibly think why a nationalist from Derry might not want to commemorate the British Army....

What next, Norman Tebbit refusing to wear an Easter Lilly?

born2bwild

Boskowski wrote: »

I understand it may have a different slant in Ireland but it's origin is not all British and for me it stands for remembering how stupid war is and the senseless maiming of millions of young lives. I find it hard to understand how anyone would not want to support that kind of message.

Yeah - I always read it like that - it's a remembrance of lives lost and suffering so that we won't repeat the errors of history etc etc...

Still, though isn't there an element of glorification of the British armed forces involved in wearing the poppy?

Plenty of reasons for lads for Derry to refuse to wear a poppy on those grounds, imo

newballsplease

He's gettin all sorts of abuse on twitter from Sunderland fans and all.
He is yet to make any comment on it tho.

If its what he believes in then so be it. Nobody should be made wear one.
What has a poppy got to do with football anyway?

Should players have to wear a bit of tinsel coming upto xmas?!!

TokenWhite

I'm beginning to think the man's a bit of an eejit, not necessarily for this because I couldn't care less if he wears a poppy or not, he's perfectly entitled not to, but when you look at it in the context of a lot of his other actions, he comes across as a man that loves to be the centre of publicity, for reasons good or otherwise.

born2bwild

TokenWhite wrote: »

I'm beginning to think the man's a bit of an eejit, not necessarily for this because I couldn't care less if he wears a poppy or not, he's perfectly entitled not to, but when you look at it in the context of a lot of his other actions, he comes across as a man that loves to be the centre of publicity, for reasons good or otherwise.

He's a bit of an eejit for sticking his head up and refusing to conform - still and all, often if people are criticising you it's a sign that you're doing something right...

Sunderland fans might do well to ask what their army got up to in Derry in the not too distant past

Coillte_Bhoy

Boskowski wrote: »

I understand it may have a different slant in Ireland but it's origin is not all British and for me it stands for remembering how stupid war is and the senseless maiming of millions of young lives. I find it hard to understand how anyone would not want to support that kind of message.

No one would argue with that message but thats not the message that the poppy is used for today in the UK. Wearing a poppy stands for how stupid the wars in iraq and Afghanistan are?? I dont think so

smileyj1987

Its quite simple if you don't believe or support a cause then why wear a symbol to say you do, it would be very hypocritical .

Coillte_Bhoy

born2bwild wrote: »

He's a bit of an eejit for sticking his head up and refusing to conform - still and all, often if people are criticising you it's a sign that you're doing something right...

Sunderland fans might do well to ask what their army got up to in Derry in the not too distant past

He's been an eejit in the past but its unfair to label him so over this. he obviously feels strongly about it. Nice to see a footballer who has an opinion for a change

born2bwild

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

No one would argue with that message but thats not the message that the poppy is used for today in the UK. Wearing a poppy stands for how stupid the wars in iraq and Afghanistan are?? I dont think so

What is the cause? I was talking with a bloke the other day who said that it was about glorification of the Britain's history of war.

I argued that it was so that people should 'never forget' war in a general sense...

TokenWhite

born2bwild wrote: »

He's a bit of an eejit for sticking his head up and refusing to conform - still and all, often if people are criticising you it's a sign that you're doing something right...

Sunderland fans might do well to ask what their army got up to in Derry in the not too distant past

Did you not read the rest of my post? Or just the first 6 words. If this was the first bit of "controversy" I'd read about McClean being in "I'd say storm in a teacup, who cares, he's entitled not to" (which he is), but the fact the man is always courting controversy is why I think he's an eejit.

BhoscaCapall

Looks like we have the Neil Lennon of the next generation. Vilified and abused for being proud of where he's from.

"He brings it on himself" lads :rolleyes:

Disgusting attitude some people have. Absolutely disgusting.

A Dub in Glasgo

Lucky he was not playing (new) Rangers today, they had fcukin artillery from the British Army on the pitch to remember the fallen

born2bwild

TokenWhite wrote: »

Did you not read the rest of my post? Or just the first 6 words. If this was the first bit of "controversy" I'd read about McClean being in "I'd say storm in a teacup, who cares, he's entitled not to" (which he is), but the fact the man is always courting controversy is why I think he's an eejit.

Of course I read all of your post - I chose not to concentrate on what you said about McClean's personality as I find the question about the significance of the poppy much more interesting.

niallo27

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Looks like we have the Neil Lennon of the next generation. Vilified and abused for being proud of where he's from.

"He brings it on himself" lads :rolleyes:

Disgusting attitude some people have. Absolutely disgusting.

His comments in the past have nothing to do with where is he is from.

BhoscaCapall

niallo27 wrote: »

Hi comments in the past have nothing to do with where is he is from.

His comments in the past have nothing to do with this thread.

TheBuilder

shanec1928 wrote: »

McClean......

Oh look it's the spelling police, I've mentioned him about 3 other times in the thread and spelt it correctly, do one.

Mr_Spaceman

cameramonkey wrote: »

If there is no pressure why are there so many to be seen on TV but so few on the streets in comparison?

The majority of people in the last day or two in my particular London borough were wearing one. Pressure? Rubbish. No one is forcing me or anybody else to wear one.

As for McClean, well, he's not the brightest and I suspect it's more tedious attention-seeking.

TheBuilder

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Lucky he was not playing (new) Rangers today, they had fcukin artillery from the British Army on the pitch to remember the fallen

You Celtic lot can't resist can you? Everything has to turn into a dig at Rangers. There were as many servicemen and women at the English games as there was at the Rangers game, rangers used a cannon to start and end the minutes silence, big deal!

Mr_Spaceman

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Lucky he was not playing (new) Rangers today, they had fcukin artillery from the British Army on the pitch to remember the fallen

And what's the problem with that, exactly?

Or are you just offended for the sake of it?

BhoscaCapall

TheBuilder wrote: »

You Celtic lot can't resist can you? Everything has to turn into a dig at Rangers. There were as many servicemen and women at the English games as there was at the Rangers game, rangers used a cannon to start and end the minutes silence, big deal!

Bit tasteless to wheel out a big piece of deadly artillery in a commemoration of Britain's war dead, no?

At least the clubs in England had a bit of respect.

CSF

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Looks like we have the Neil Lennon of the next generation. Vilified and abused for being proud of where he's from.

"He brings it on himself" lads :rolleyes:

Disgusting attitude some people have. Absolutely disgusting.

Oh my lord it has begun

fionnsda

TheBuilder wrote: »

You Celtic lot can't resist can you? Everything has to turn into a dig at Rangers. There were as many servicemen and women at the English games as there was at the Rangers game, rangers used a cannon to start and end the minutes silence, big deal!

lol

was it aimed at celtic park by any chance

niallo27

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

His comments in the past have nothing to do with this thread.

Why not, he loves the attention. I think they should be discussed when looking at his reasons for doing it.

Dozen Wicked Words

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

The majority of people in the last day or two in my particular London borough were wearing one. Pressure? Rubbish. No one is forcing me or anybody else to wear one.

As for McClean, well, he's not the brightest and I suspect it's more tedious attention-seeking.

The pressure may not be there for people in the street (not convinced either way on that one) but there is most definitely pressure in the public eye, and its expected everyone wears one. Why else would there be a researcher or whatever ready to pounce and give people about to appear on TV one. And if you are saying that being handed a shirt with a poppy embroidered onto it like McClean was, is not pressure then define it for me.

born2bwild

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

The majority of people in the last day or two in my particular London borough were wearing one. Pressure? Rubbish. No one is forcing me or anybody else to wear one.

As for McClean, well, he's not the brightest and I suspect it's more tedious attention-seeking.

I really don't agree with this - any time I've been in the Creggan or the Bogside I've gone away in no doubt that the British armed forces (or police - the PSNI aren't allowed into the Brandywell) were hated - and for good reason.

Not attention seeking - a fact of McClean's life.

BhoscaCapall

I think it's a sad reflection on the pathetic attitude behind the whole poppy thing that anyone who makes a personal choice not to wear one, even with the completely valid reasons McClean does, that it gets branded as trying to rile people up.

Typical of the dangerous mindset the gutter press have instilled in some areas of the British public. These people are conditioned to snarl at anyone who doesn't support their wars. Smells a bit like fascism to me.

niallo27 wrote: »

Why not, he loves the attention. I think they should be discussed when looking at his reasons for doing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but his comments were made on Twitter. To followers. Hardly attention seeking is it?

Mr_Spaceman

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Bit tasteless to wheel out a big piece of deadly artillery in a commemoration of Britain's war dead, no?

At least the clubs in England had a bit of respect.

So tasteless the British troops in attendance were happy to be involved.

And no one asks them which team, if any, they support when they walk into Ibrox either.

A Dub in Glasgo

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

And what's the problem with that, exactly?

Or are you just offended for the sake of it?

I am not offended, I am totally surprised that it is perceived to be reasonable to remember the fallen by bringing in a 105mm artillery gun into a football stadium. I mean WTF is the relevance?

BhoscaCapall

Obviously the commemorations at Ibrox are so extravagant because of Rangers' long standing opposition to fascism.

Mr.Nice Guy

Hmm I get the feeling not even the SBL would go near this issue with a fifty foot barge pole. :pac:

Mr_Spaceman

born2bwild wrote: »

I really don't agree with this - any time I've been in the Creggan or the Bogside I've gone away in no doubt that the British armed forces (or police - the PSNI aren't allowed into the Brandywell) were hated - and for good reason.

Not attention seeking - a fact of McClean's life.

He's happy enough to take the British coin though and enjoy a big platform in the EPL.

It's also interesting how he makes these 'statements' yet never goes public to articulate his position properly - unless you count childishly mocking people on Twatter.

niallo27

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

I think it's a sad reflection on the pathetic attitude behind the whole poppy thing that anyone who makes a personal choice not to wear one, even with the completely valid reasons McClean does, that it gets branded as trying to rile people up.

Typical of the dangerous mindset the gutter press have instilled in some areas of the British public. These people are conditioned to snarl at anyone who doesn't support their wars. Smells a bit like fascism to me.


Correct me if I'm wrong but his comments were made on Twitter. To followers. Hardly attention seeking is it?

Well the last few comments he made on twitter made all the papers and were discussed amoung a lot more people than his followers, so he knew this would have the same outcome. For the record i support the stance he is taking i'm just not 100% sure of his reasons behind it.

celtictiger32

hats off to mc clean fair play, its a pity more irish personalities in england havent got the balls to refuse to wear this also.

Mr_Spaceman

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Obviously the commemorations at Ibrox are so extravagant because of Rangers' long standing opposition to fascism.

You can't help yourself.

Given the Republic's cosying up to Nazi Germany under De Valera during WW2 you might want to have a wee re-think there.

Back to the topic - McClean - sometime soon?

BhoscaCapall

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

He's happy enough to take the British coin though and enjoy a big platform in the EPL

Are you really trying to draw a parallel between quietly choosing not to remember an army who murdered people in your hometown, with being employed in England? By your logic anybody who works in the UK, of any nationality, are hypocrites should they choose not to commemorate the British Army. Catch yourself on, you're sounding ridiculous.

niallo27 wrote: »

Well the last few comments he made on twitter made all the papers and were discussed amoung a lot more people than his followers, so he knew this would have the same outcome. For the record i support the stance he is taking i'm just not 100% sure of his reasons behind it.

Admittedly I haven't followed everything he's said, but from what I've heard he has said nothing different to what I've heard anybody else from Derry, or indeed any Irish nationalist say. Are they all attention seeking too? Are you seriously going to sit there and dismiss anyone with a dissenting opinion to the British mainstream media as attention seeking? Newsflash kid, not everyone supports illegal wars and bloody invasions

BhoscaCapall

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

You can't help yourself.

Given the Republic's cosying up to Nazi Germany under De Valera during WW2 you might want to have a wee re-think there

Wait, what on earth does Ireland have to do with what I said?

But I'm the one who can't help myself, right.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

born2bwild

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

He's happy enough to take the British coin though and enjoy a big platform in the EPL.

It's also interesting how he makes these 'statements' yet never goes public to articulate his position properly - unless you count childishly mocking people on Twatter.

I think McClean is probably a bit of a wally (I don't think I'd have much in common with him) - but even a broken clock is right twice a day and he's right not to wear the poppy.

Irish men working in British jobs because there are no proper jobs at home is hardly a new thing, is it?

Irish men would have proper jobs here if we had a better supported/promoted/celebrated league at home.

BTW - Enda Stevens wore the poppy today

niallo27

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Are you really trying to draw a parallel between quietly choosing not to remember an army who murdered people in your hometown, with being employed in England? By your logic anybody who works in the UK, of any nationality, are hypocrites should they choose not to commemorate the British Army. Catch yourself on, you're sounding ridiculous.


Admittedly I haven't followed everything he's said, but from what I've heard he has said nothing different to what I've heard anybody else from Derry, or indeed any Irish nationalist say. Are they all attention seeking too? Are you seriously going to sit there and dismiss anyone with a dissenting opinion to the British mainstream media as attention seeking? Newsflash kid, not everyone supports illegal wars and bloody invasions

Have a read of his previous comments he made, there is nothing there to do with derry or nationalism, I'm not taking about any comments like that, these are the first comments i have read from him about anything to do with derry so i dont know why you feel the need to constantly refer to it.

Mr_Spaceman

dooferoaks wrote: »

The pressure may not be there for people in the street (not convinced either way on that one) but there is most definitely pressure in the public eye, and its expected everyone wears one. Why else would there be a researcher or whatever ready to pounce and give people about to appear on TV one. And if you are saying that being handed a shirt with a poppy embroidered onto it like McClean was, is not pressure then define it for me.

Argentine players don't seem to have a problem with it.

I'd have a grain of time for McClean if he made a statement outlining his opposition. He doesn't because he isn't clever enough to be perfectly honest. Twatter is his level of hit and run engagement.

That said, I don't think people should be forced to wear the poppy whether it's to do with football or anything else. But to remember the fallen - of various backgrounds, Irish included - for a couple of minutes isn't much to ask.

Mr_Spaceman

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Wait, what on earth does Ireland have to do with what I said?

But I'm the one who can't help myself, right.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

You're making some snide cheap link between Rangers FC and supporting fascism.

I'm merely pointing out the obvious in response if that's the road you want to go down.

born2bwild

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Argentine players don't seem to have a problem with it.

I'd have a grain of time for McClean if he made a statement outlining his opposition. He doesn't because he isn't clever enough to be perfectly honest. Twatter is his level of hit and run engagement.

That said, I don't think people should be forced to wear the poppy whether it's to do with football or anything else. But to remember the fallen - of various backgrounds, Irish included - for a couple of minutes isn't much to ask.

Yeah - I agree with this - but I don't think it's as simple as 'remembering the fallen' - especially for someone from Derry.

super_furry

Shouldn't supporting a charity be a personal thing? I find it bizarre the way this poppy fascism has taken root in Britain.

A Dub in Glasgo

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

I'd have a grain of time for McClean if he made a statement outlining his opposition.

.

No you wouldn't as you would then complain that McClean was bringing politics into football :pac::pac:

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

You can't help yourself.

Given the Republic's cosying up to Nazi Germany under De Valera during WW2 you might want to have a wee re-think there.

There was no cosying up to Nazi Germany under de Valera during WW2.

BhoscaCapall

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

You're making some snide cheap link between Rangers FC and supporting fascism.

I'm merely pointing out the obvious in response if that's the road you want to go down.

Sorry but mentioning Ireland's history is not the "obvious response" to raising a point about Rangers. The two are not linked at all. It just looks like you are desperate to link the two, while trying to project that desperation on others with comments like "you just can't help yourself".

super_furry wrote: »

Shouldn't supporting a charity be a personal thing? I find it bizarre the way this poppy fascism has taken root in Britain.

It wouldn't be so bizarre if you lived in Britain and recognised the obvious and concerted effort in the British media to drum up support for the British Army's 'endeavours'. It started 4 or 5 years ago when morale and national support was at an all time low.

Unsurprisingly, the main outlets were ITV programs like X-Factor, The Sun and other tabloid trash papers, football grounds etc

None of these people give the slightest toss about opposing fascism at any other time of the year, but it is the only acceptable face on this pro-Army propaganda campaign.

"Keep politics out of football" they say. Unless it's pro-British.