McClean refuses to wear poppy

5starpool

Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.

Mr_Spaceman

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Sorry but mentioning Ireland's history is not the "obvious response" to raising a point about Rangers. The two are not linked at all. It just looks like you are desperate to link the two, while trying to project that desperation on others with comments like "you just can't help yourself".

Well when we're debating on an Irish forum I beg to differ.

Anyway we've made our points quite clear.

markesmith

Mr_Spaceman wrote: »

Given the Republic's cosying up to Nazi Germany under De Valera during WW2 you might want to have a wee re-think there.

The reasons for that are too complicated to get into. Suffice to say, sometimes your enemy's enemy is your friend, and that was the position in the minds of many back then.

I reckon fair play to McClean - he's an individual and he has the right to choose not to wear the poppy.

It's absurd and slightly sinister that people are forced to wear the poppy on-camera. We are each to our own.

The fact that he plays in the English league, lives in England and gets Sterling into his bank account has nothing to do with it.

I'd say George Orwell would have a few choice words to say about this.

fionnsda

10 years ago no football team wore poppys, now they all do and you get vilified if you dare to refuse, whats changed?

Dozen Wicked Words

fionnsda wrote: »

10 years ago no football team wore poppys, now they all do and you get vilified if you dare to refuse, whats changed?

PR men, probably earning a nice little bundle.

BhoscaCapall

fionnsda wrote: »

10 years ago no football team wore poppys, now they all do and you get vilified if you dare to refuse, whats changed?

See post #101

Mr_Spaceman

fionnsda wrote: »

10 years ago no football team wore poppys, now they all do and you get vilified if you dare to refuse, whats changed?

That's probably a question for the Premier League.

A Dub in Glasgo

fionnsda wrote: »

10 years ago no football team wore poppys, now they all do and you get vilified if you dare to refuse, whats changed?

Mainly Iraq but latterly Afganistan - but hey there is no politics in football :pac:

born2bwild

5starpool wrote: »

Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.

POTM?

EDIT:

Dozen Wicked Words

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Mainly Iraq but latterly Afganistan - but hey there is no politics in football :pac:

I don't even think it is that, I just think the Royal British Legion have hired some very savvy PR leeches that know what buttons to press, along the same lines as help for heroes etc. There was an Iraq war before the last one, and even during the jingoistic heights after the Falklands there was no poppy fascism like there is now.

A Dub in Glasgo

born2bwild wrote: »

POTM?

Am I the only one to see this and think this?

mike65

Deleted User wrote: »

The only issue I'd have with wearing one is the expectation to. It's amazing watching British TV this time of year to see the uniformity of opinion on the topic, everyone agrees with wearing one.

Paul Morley (music journo type) didn't wear one last night on BBC 2, so its not enforced.

Dozen Wicked Words

mike65 wrote: »

Paul Morley (music journo type) didn't wear one last night on BBC 2, so its not enforced.

I don't think its enforced but its a very good bet that someone in production crew offered him one to wear.

BhoscaCapall

mike65 wrote: »

Paul Morley (music journo type) didn't wear one last night on BBC 2, so its not enforced.

I don't think he means enforced in legislation, so much as most people are basically intimidated into wearing one.

A music journo isn't likely to face the same backlash as a footballer, because it's a different world. Jingoism is rife in football, and that basically is all the poppy stuff is about these days.

mike65

You makes your choices....

born2bwild

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Am I the only one to see this and think this?

Don't know - but I like that link - you could make a fap calendar out of it.

kitakyushu

Was McClean the only player today? Did anyone spot any others? (haven't seen any pix/video today so genuine question)

Gamb!t

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I will say that I share the sentiments of annoyance over the expectation that people should uniformly wear it as a mark of respect. After all, one doesn't need to wear the flower to show respect to the war dead. You can clearly see organisations like BBC and ITV are extremely keen on guests wearing them because they don't want some crank at home to make a complaint about not seeing one on a presenter or interviewee (always been baffled that there are people like this out there)

I don't wear the poppy (not even sure if they sell them over here?) but I DO take the time to remember the dead of the two world wars and don't need to prove myself by wearing something.

Having said all that though, these poppies are actually sewn on the shirts themselves so it seems to me rather an extreme move to actually make it clear you do not wish to wear one. It's a rather strong statement and a quite confrontational stance. I just hope he's thought this one through and had a word with O'Neill before he made this call.

My thoughts exactly.
Maybe he should have worn it for the consideration his team mates and the club that pays his wages.

Rhys Essien

Its a pity that UEFA didnt step in and tell the Brits not to mix politics with sport,especially having emblems plastered on the jersey.

Imagine the outcry from the British press if the Bundesliga teams wanted to wear the Iron Cross to honour the German forces.Especially if it was Man Utd v Bayern Munich.They would probably call for the match to be called off.

Imagine if the FAI told the National team players to wear the Easter Lilly.The question is,would all of them wear it.??

Rhys Essien

kitakyushu wrote: »

Was McClean the only player today? Did anyone spot any others? (haven't seen any pix/video today so genuine question)

Not sure but someone said John O'Shea didnt wear it either.

mike65

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Its a pity that UEFA didnt step in and tell the Brits not to mix politics with sport,especially having emblems plastered on the jersey.

Imagine the outcry from the British press if the Bundesliga teams wanted to wear the Iron Cross to honour the German forces.Especially if it was Man Utd v Bayern Munich.They would probably call for the match to be called off.

Imagine if the FAI told the National team players to wear the Easter Lilly.The question is,would all of them wear it.??

Seriously, if you want to make a good point, make it well and not with asinine comparisons.

The Cross of Iron was a NAZI military award (though pre-dates the NAZI era) and to even display such in Germany is a criminal offence. The poppy is not a military award, its a symbol of loss.

A Dub in Glasgo

O'Shea wore the Poppy jersey in the 1st half and did not for the 2nd half. I would say it is rather presumptuous of the employer to force their employess wear the poppy

Dozen Wicked Words

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Not sure but someone said John O'Shea didnt wear it either.

He wore it for 45 minutes! Decisive protest there then.

Pics at end of Daily Mail article slaggin McClean showing O'Shea with and without his poppy

To Alcohol

Good old McClean. If he was lying on the ground on fire I'd think twice before having a piss on him.

born2bwild

mike65 wrote: »

Seriously, if you want to make a good point, make it well and not with asinine comparisons.

The Cross of Iron was a NAZI military award and to even display such in Germany is a criminal offence. The poppy is not a military award, its a symbol of loss.

Really? But the Iron cross predates the nazi era by 120 years!!!

Soups123

I see Louie Walsh had one on tonight in the xfactor too. Disappointing

A Dub in Glasgo

Soups123 wrote: »

I see Louie Walsh had one on tonight in the xfactor too. Disappointing

No great surprise considering X Factor were to the fore in this faux expression

Dozen Wicked Words

Soups123 wrote: »

I see Louie Walsh had one on tonight in the xfactor too. Disappointing

More disappointing you watch that old shit

mike65

born2bwild wrote: »

Really? But the Iron cross predates the nazi era by 120 years!!!

I amended my post!

ps They had to change the design after the war.

Coillte_Bhoy

born2bwild wrote: »

What is the cause? I was talking with a bloke the other day who said that it was about glorification of the Britain's history of war.

I argued that it was so that people should 'never forget' war in a general sense...

So why is the 'poppy movement' so inextricably linked with the present british armed forces?

A Dub in Glasgo

To Alcohol wrote: »

Good old McClean. If he was lying on the ground on fire I'd think twice before having a piss on him.

Is that because Alcohol is an accelerant?

Coillte_Bhoy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Lucky he was not playing (new) Rangers today, they had fcukin artillery from the British Army on the pitch to remember the fallen

In Scottish football terms they are the 'fallen'

Coillte_Bhoy

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Obviously the commemorations at Ibrox are so extravagant because of Rangers' long standing opposition to fascism.

Fought Franco's police in 1972 dont ya know

Jimoslimos

dooferoaks wrote: »

He wore it for 45 minutes! Decisive protest there then.

Pics at end of Daily Mail article slaggin McClean showing O'Shea with and without his poppy

Many players change shirts at half time, I don't know if there would have been two shirts with the poppy sewn into them.

Rhys Essien

mike65 wrote: »

Seriously, if you want to make a good point, make it well and not with asinine comparisons.

The Cross of Iron was a NAZI military award (though pre-dates the NAZI era) and to even display such in Germany is a criminal offence. The poppy is not a military award, its a symbol of loss.

Not true FFS.Since 1956,it has resumed its usage as the symbol of the modern German Armed Forces(Bundeswehr).

Pic here


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eurofighter_9803_1.jpg

Dozen Wicked Words

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Many players change shirts at half time, I don't know if there would have been two shirts with the poppy sewn into them.

We could probably do a survey of most other players in Sunderland and other premier league teams and find that virtually all of them had poppies in the second and first half.

Dozen Wicked Words

This thread would be a perfect time to highlight the plight of Kettering Town Football Club. If you worry about one Poppy today, make it the Poppies of Kettering Town.

kippy

When exactly did wearing a poppy become so common place for weeks on end on various TV shows?
Defo dont remember it being as widespread a decade ago.

born2bwild

mike65 wrote: »

I amended my post!

ps They had to change the design after the war.

Well I knew sfa about the iron cross before I had to google it after your post so I wouldn't get too worried....

Still it's a good question - why don't the British public wear German WW1 era helmet - shaped badges in november to commemorate the war - it's all about remembering WW1 and not repeating it, no?

born2bwild

dooferoaks wrote: »

This thread would be a perfect time to highlight the plight of Kettering Town Football Club. If you worry about one Poppy today, make it the Poppies of Kettering Town.

Wear a poppy to support your local League of Ireland club - or an Iron Cross.

Soups123

The newspaper article and the thread title is wrong, saying he is refusing to wear it is the wrong, refusing is saying no when being told to. He decided not too and it's understandable and within his rights.

BhoscaCapall

dooferoaks wrote: »

He wore it for 45 minutes! Decisive protest there then.

Pics at end of Daily Mail article slaggin McClean showing O'Shea with and without his poppy

How typically cowardly of the Daily Mail not to even mention what might have happened in Derry in 1972 to motivate McClean's decision. No doubt comments have been disabled in case anyone does their job for them :rolleyes:

Coillte_Bhoy

kippy wrote: »

When exactly did wearing a poppy become so common place for weeks on end on various TV shows?
Defo dont remember it being as widespread a decade ago.

Co-ncidentally, around the same time the birtish army became involved in controversial wars overseas that do not have the overwhelming support of the population. Co incidence though i'm sure

Rascasse

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Its a pity that UEFA didnt step in and tell the Brits not to mix politics with sport,especially having emblems plastered on the jersey.

Imagine the outcry from the British press if the Bundesliga teams wanted to wear the Iron Cross to honour the German forces.Especially if it was Man Utd v Bayern Munich.They would probably call for the match to be called off.

Imagine if the FAI told the National team players to wear the Easter Lilly.The question is,would all of them wear it.??

Firstly the poppy appeal is non-political. Secondly what about Barcelona? Should they not have used the UNICEF on the shirts as the UN also signs off on military action like Afghanistan and (somewhat dubiously) Iraq?

Or the Qatar foundation? A nation that is a leading light for democracy and freedom.

Or is it because its "the Brits" thats the problem?

Dozen Wicked Words

kippy wrote: »

When exactly did wearing a poppy become so common place for weeks on end on various TV shows?
Defo dont remember it being as widespread a decade ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/show-us-you-care-the-rise-of-good-cause-labelling-6258701.html

BhoscaCapall

Rascasse wrote: »

Firstly the poppy appeal is non-political.

Bollocks is it. Don't you dare try and peddle that pish here.

An appeal for f***ing soldiers who FOUGHT IN WARS non political :rolleyes: jog on. It's an annual display of jingoism and pro army propaganda.

Coillte_Bhoy

Rascasse wrote: »

Firstly the poppy appeal is non-political. Secondly what about Barcelona? Should they not have used the UNICEF on the shirts as the UN also signs off on military action like Afghanistan and (somewhat dubiously) Iraq?

Or the Qatar foundation? A nation that is a leading light for democracy and freedom.

Or is it because its "the Brits" thats the problem?

Non political?? How much more political can you get than by supporting the armed forces?I agree with you about barca and Qatar though

A Dub in Glasgo

Rascasse wrote: »

Firstly the poppy appeal is non-political

Rascasse

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Bollocks is it. Don't you dare try and peddle that pish here.

An appeal for f***ing soldiers who FOUGHT IN WARS non political :rolleyes: jog on. It's an annual display of jingoism and pro army propaganda.

It is for the benefit of those who are or were in the military and their families. They take no position on whether the wars are just or not.

According to the RBL 8 milllion people are eligible for their support. It's a popular charity in Britain that does good work. No great surprise the EPL decided to support them.

Rhys Essien

Rascasse wrote: »

Firstly the poppy appeal is non-political. Secondly what about Barcelona? Should they not have used the UNICEF on the shirts as the UN also signs off on military action like Afghanistan and (somewhat dubiously) Iraq?

Or the Qatar foundation? A nation that is a leading light for democracy and freedom.

Or is it because its "the Brits" thats the problem?

Who are you trying to fool.Sport should be kept neutral.That is all.