McClean refuses to wear poppy

guttenberg

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That's the thing about NI

One mob would threaten him for wearing one, and the other crowd would threaten him for not wearing it

Irrelevant though, the fella who ended up in Court for sending him a death threat(only one that I'm aware of anyway) was a former soldier from Manchester.

bobmalooka

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

That's the thing about NI

One mob would threaten him for wearing one, and the other crowd would threaten him for not wearing it

You're right, we shouldn't discuss or express opinion on anything which could reflect badly on PUL in NI without inventing a hypothetical situation to share the blame.

death1234567

death1234567 wrote: »

I support McClean's right to refuse to wear the poppy but the idea that he would be putting "lives at risk" by wearing it is beyond nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Irvine#Nationality

There's still plenty of nutters up there, to suggest otherwise in beyond nonsense.

death1234567

Deleted User wrote: »

There's still plenty of nutters up there, to suggest otherwise in beyond nonsense.

Its not. How many people have been killed for percieved slight's against nationalism/unionism in the last 20 years, such as wearing a poppy? There's plenty of 14 year old kids and assorted morons who'll fire off death threats from the saftey of their ivory tower. Anyone who considers them as anything other than nonsense isn't living in the real world.

Note: Was Eddie Irvine murdered or did I miss something?

Fr Tod Umptious

bobmalooka wrote: »

You're right, we shouldn't discuss or express opinion on anything which could reflect badly on PUL in NI without inventing a hypothetical situation to share the blame.

I'm confused, what exactly are you trying to say

Dirty Dingus McGee

Very good article by Eamonn Sweeney in yesterdays Sunday Independent

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/premier-league/mcclean-jibes-are-poppycock-he-deserves-our-support-30747725.html

Eamonn Sweeney: McClean jibes are 'poppycock' - he deserves our support

We should all be proud of James McClean. His refusal to wear the British Legion poppy is an outstanding example of someone sticking to the dictates of their conscience in the face of considerable pressure. And his letter to Wigan Athletic chairman Dave Whelan explaining his stand was a well-mannered and articulate statement of his beliefs. James McClean has shown courage and he has shown dignity.

Perhaps the most telling sign that McClean is in the right is that his critics have not really come up with a single convincing reason for his wearing the poppy. By and large their arguments have been facile and cheap and lapsed too often into personal abuse. McClean has displayed great forbearance in the face of this abuse, by the way, an encouraging development in someone who's tended to fly off the handle in the past.

The most common argument deployed against McClean is that he must wear the poppy because he earns his living in England. Some of the keyboard warriors advancing this view appear to think that the Queen of England actually foots the wage bill at Wigan.

But McClean is not being paid to follow the customs and traditions of another country, he's being paid to play football. Like any other emigrant worker, he's employed because there's a need for him. He's not employed as an act of charity. So what he owes Wigan Athletic is no more and no less than good performances on the pitch and decent behaviour off it. He's a worker, not a slave.

The idea that because you make your living in a foreign country you must do everything the people from that country tell you is an extremely dubious one. Let's say that in two years we commemorate the Easter Rising by wearing the Easter Lily and that these lilies, like the British Legion poppies, appear on lapels up and down the country. And let's say that an Englishman working in this country decides he doesn't want to wear the Easter Lily and explains that this is because he comes from Birmingham, remembers the IRA bombing which killed 21 people there and can't bring himself to don what he sees as a symbol of Irish republicanism.

Could you say to that man: "Wear the Easter Lily, Gary. You're living in our country so you have to abide by our rules. Wear it or I'll make you wear it." Well, you could. But you'd be a terrible pig if you did. Civilised people don't tend to carry on in this 'my way or the highway' manner.

There are also those who say that McClean is a footballer and should just get on with the game without becoming embroiled in controversy. But in an age when footballers are persistently criticised for being vapid and trivial, isn't it stirring to see one of them standing up for his beliefs for a change?

Some tabloid hack went on the attack last week by accusing McClean of seeking to draw attention to himself. Yet it's not James McClean who made a big deal out of the issue, it's the British media. Said hack couldn't let it go at that and decided to throw in a jibe about McClean's footballing abilities. In doing so he fitted in well with the general tenor of the criticism. Last week a former British soldier tweeted, "I hope he does a Fabrice Muamba but actually does die on the pitch". There have been death threats and copious amounts of sectarian abuse too. Then again, when Muhammad Ali refused to go to Vietnam, he was also subjected to abuse and mockery along the lines of 'what would a sportsman know about these things'.

Even if McClean were wrong not to wear the poppy, he'd still be entitled to his beliefs. But the fact is that he's right. Because the British Legion state that the poppy is "worn to commemorate the sacrifices of our armed forces and to show support to those still serving today."

In other words, wear the poppy and you're declaring your support for the British Army past and present. And that includes the soldiers of the Parachute Regiment who, on January 30, 1972, shot dead 13 unarmed civilians at a civil rights march in McClean's home town of Derry. It should be pretty obvious why James McClean can't stomach that.

Perhaps the most witless of all commenters on this issue are those who say McClean should forget the past and move on. But wearing the poppy is all about remembrance and honouring the dead. By not wearing one McClean is carrying out his own act of remembrance and honouring the dead of his own community.

Talk about Irish involvement in remembrance ceremonies always sounds profoundly illogical to me anyway. We're told we should show we've moved on from the past by commemorating ancient conflicts, that we should show our opposition to violence by celebrating the Great War and that we should show our new-found independence and maturity by latching on to British ceremonies. It doesn't make much sense to me.

What calls for Irish people to honour the British Army suggest is that history can be emptied of meaning so everyone can join in a big group hug. But that's not how history works. The Irish and the English have different histories. Even the events we shared were experienced differently.
Take Bloody Sunday for example. In this country it was universally regarded as a tragedy, a massacre of the innocents which raised the ire of the population to such an extent that the British Embassy was burned down. But things were different in England. One Paratrooper remembered that after shooting the civilians "the mood between the blokes was, not elation, but at the same time, it was a job well done."

In his excellent history of Britain between 1970 and 1974, State of Emergency, the historian Dominic Sandbrook notes that "in mainland Britain, although there was considerable shock at the deaths of 13 civilians, there was also strong support for the army." A Paratrooper stationed in England recalls his unit cheering when the news of the kills came through. The Daily Mail and The Guardian wrote editorials defending the actions of the troops. And the constituency agent of the then Home Secretary Reginald Maudling said he was "glad that, at long last, the troops have started to get tough in riot situations, and I think that this attitude will have the support of everyone interested in the preservation of law and order."

Is it any wonder that the English media don't seem to understand why James McClean won't declare his support? They fail to realise that he comes from an island with a different history. I'm writing this a few miles from the birthplace of Michael Collins, a national hero to us but a man responsible for the deaths of some of those soldiers commemorated by the poppy. There are many people here in West Cork who take pride in the Kilmichael Ambush where Tom Barry's flying column killed 17 British soldiers. This doesn't mean they're anti-English. In fact, there is a large English population in West Cork. But I wouldn't expect them to join me in a toast to Tom Barry.

I worked in England from 1988 to 1992. I never wore the poppy and no one at work ever mentioned the fact because there was nothing remarkable about it back then. Lots of people didn't wear it. It's only become a big issue in the last few years since the growth of what's been termed 'poppy fascism', with its insistence that anyone who doesn't wear a poppy is some kind of traitor. Calling this fascism is a bit of an exaggeration but it's certainly a form of bullying. The wearing of poppies on football shirts only came in five years ago. Generations of players, some of whom had actually seen war service, felt perfectly able to get on without them. This is not some hallowed tradition we're talking about but a modern innovation.

It would have been very easy for James McClean to crumble under the pressure and compose some face-saving statement saying that after due consideration he'd realised how much the poppy means to people and would wear it from now on. But he didn't and I hope he never does.
He deserves our support.

Eamonn Sweeney

Sunday Independent

16/11/2014