Childrens Referendum - A Reminder To Vote

Sully

A quick reminder folks that there is a referendum taking place today since 9am on the issue of Childrens Rights. The proposed changes to the Constitution concern the rights of children. This has been on the cards for a number of years and is finally being put to the Irish electorate today by the current government.

Sadly, turnout is extremely low so far across Ireland despite it being a Saturday. There has been numerous calls for polling on Saturday, so its a bit weird not to see a significant boost on numbers. In addition, people always seem to complain that the government ignore them and they get no say in how this country is run. Yet we are being asked to make a choice on such an important topic and turnout is shockingly low.

Have Your Say. Vote before 10pm on the Childrens Referendum in your local polling station. Be sure to bring your ID with you and polling card if you have one.

For information on what proposals are being put forward, than I suggest reading the independent and neutral Referendum Commissions Guide. This is separate to the governments own guide. Link: http://www.referendum2012.ie/

Thanks.

rasper

Do hope people bother to vote , however most people I know were very undecided so I'd expect them not to vote even though I wouldn't agree with that move.
We voted already and were very much against handing over anymore power to an unaccountable and incompetent state

wmpdd3

Anyone a generation older than me seems to have no interest. It was very quite in the polling station today compared to the fiscal treaty one, there's reports of 20% turn out.

Elfinknight

rasper wrote: »

Do hope people bother to vote , however most people I know were very undecided so I'd expect them not to vote even though I wouldn't agree with that move.
We voted already and were very much against handing over anymore power to an unaccountable and incompetent state

I always maintain that if you are undecided or unsure that you should vote no. Especialy if it is because of a lack of information.
Tha way, the status qou is kept until the government comes back with the relevent information and asks us to vote again.

looksee

Elfinknight wrote: »

I always maintain that if you are undecided or unsure that you should vote no. Especialy if it is because of a lack of information.
Tha way, the status qou is kept until the government comes back with the relevent information and asks us to vote again.

I understand and agree with that attitude, but today, for the first time ever, I have not voted. Cop-out? maybe, but that's how I feel about it.

mccarthy37

The low turnout is a clear signal to this government that the people of this country have lost faith in them completely.
I wonder will they ever have the referendum they promised on scraping the Seanad. I bet the turnout would rise dramatically to get rid of this greatest waste of money but than again their probably thinking that when they loose their seats as TD's they can always fall back on the hot air chamber.

Sully

People should get up of their lazy backside and vote. Shouldn't matter what the issue is. Especially on such an important issue. Other countries are killing each other for this very right and yet we don't seem bothered?! The mind boggles.

There is a great event that happens every four years or so and its called a General Election. Use that polling day to voice your anger and disappointment with government and not other important completely unrelated issues. Playing politics with kids livelihoods? For **** sake, get a grip people.

honeybadger

i voted no anyways ,,

tankbarry

I also voted no. How can anybody trust this government to protect our children when we can't trust them on absolutely anything now.

Wanderer2010

As an aside, how do the people who take your polling cards get the job? I see the same old faces every single time there is an election. I heard they get about 500euro for the day and I presume these people are either teachers/civil servants or else daughters/sons of same because a lot of them are young enough and I never see these jobs advertised. God forbid we would give some of our unemployed a chance to make a few bob for a day, the work isnt exactly rocket science..the Irish closed book system, dont you love it...:rolleyes:

Sully

You can apply, but they generally use the same people for years. For as long as I can remember, up until this referendum anyway, it was the same staff at my box. Its a job for life, basically. You apply for the job to the Returning Officer for your county which is the County Registrar who is usually based in the Circuit Court Office. Your name will then be added onto the list if you are suitable and you can be called if someone is unavailable to attend. Sometimes I believe if the clerk cannot attend, he will nominate someone to replace him.

Money is €400 pre tax. Remember when the polling station opens at 9am, you cant leave the building until after polling closes probably about 10.30 by the time you have everything ready to go. The clerk in my polling station had her dinner there and had tea/coffee in a flask. Its not suitable for the unemployed because you need to sign off, do the election, then sign back on again. There are a number of reports online of people who did this and their payments were messed up as a result.

As with any referendum, people are clearly clueless as to what its all about. People were linking abortion and fathers rights to this referendum which its nothing to do with. The state already has constitutional rights to protect the children and take them from parents care - but this strengthens these rules including giving the kids a voice to say. Its got nothing to do with the competence of the government are either because they don't have a role to play in the cases that arise. Its not like Enda & the Cabinet will vote to take Child X away from Home Y and get it wrong because some evil minister wanted to screw the county or whatever!

Wanderer2010

Oh right, 400 pre tax is still great for a long days work. I know the same old heads are down in my local polling station, some of them seem to be in their mid-20s, I imagine they got the job when some teacher who was at it years stepped aside or retired, they are definitely not people who just applied and got the job no questions asked. Helps when you know someone for sure.

There were hardly any people voting y/day when i was there and that was aobut 6pm.

Sully

There is a list, you can go on the list and you may be lucky. Numerous reports online of people getting the job this way and numerous reports of people getting the job 'for life' until they leave. This is why its hard to get selected - because those that are there have the job for every vote in the future unless they have to leave and its called from the list or nominated. Its longer working hours than most people do in a day with no breaks.

Wanderer2010

Yeah but for that money i would put up with it no hassle, in fact most people would. I must look into this list and apply, wont hold my breath though.

Gael23

Is there any indication of turnout in Waterford? Its likely to be passed here with 56/44 in favour of yes

Finnbar01

Sully wrote: »

As with any referendum, people are clearly clueless as to what its all about. People were linking abortion and fathers rights to this referendum which its nothing to do with. The state already has constitutional rights to protect the children and take them from parents care - but this strengthens these rules including giving the kids a voice to say. Its got nothing to do with the competence of the government are either because they don't have a role to play in the cases that arise. Its not like Enda & the Cabinet will vote to take Child X away from Home Y and get it wrong because some evil minister wanted to screw the county or whatever!

Government ministers don't have to be evil nor even try that hard to screw the country. Look at our present mess.

To actually give the state my power and control over the family is wandering into dangerous territory.

Sully

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Government ministers don't have to be evil nor even try that hard to screw the country. Look at our present mess.

To actually give the state my power and control over the family is wandering into dangerous territory.

Yes but the government are implementing policies of this measure directly. But they wont be doing so in the case of children.

That's my point. People cant seem to tell the difference between government legislating and those who implement the legislation through social workers and the courts. Enda & Co have no say over any individual case brought to the state.

Like, a number of people spoiled their vote for "Justice for Sean Quinn" over justice for children!! Even if they voted no they would be giving what they felt was justice for the kids. But instead they wanted to spoil their vote?!

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Playing politics with kids livelihoods? For **** sake, get a grip people.

When it was ruled in the Supreme Court that the Government distorted the referendum - and then hadn't the courtesy to postpone it? And you accuse others of playing politics"?

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

As with any referendum, people are clearly clueless as to what its all about.

FFS. Are you REALLY that naive? Or do you think everyone else is stupid? What a statement! Regarding those manning the polling booths, it should be the reserve of the unemployed. In nine cases out of ten, those manning them don't need the money - with some people taking a day's leave off work to man the booth.

It is absolutely ridiculous when there are so many unemployed in the country.

Wanderer2010

Has anyone actually read the booklet that came to explain the whole process of this referendum? Its written in a confusing and jargonish way to confuse the reader and ultimately leave them wondering what the hell they are voting on. Its not user friendly in the least and taking away the fact that the government thinks the average Irish person is stupid, they obviously dress up the language in such a way as to put even more people off voting!

Sully

7upfree wrote: »

When it was ruled in the Supreme Court that the Government distorted the referendum - and then hadn't the courtesy to postpone it? And you accuse others of playing politics"?

7upfree wrote: »

FFS. Are you REALLY that naive? Or do you think everyone else is stupid? What a statement! Regarding those manning the polling booths, it should be the reserve of the unemployed. In nine cases out of ten, those manning them don't need the money - with some people taking a day's leave off work to man the booth.

It is absolutely ridiculous when there are so many unemployed in the country.

May I introduce you to the multi-quote function. It saves you having to break my posts up bit by bit in separate posts to have an awl rant. See, I am doing it now!

Yes, I believe people buy into bull**** and lies. Yes, I believe some people do not educate themselves enough. Yes, I believe people couldn't be arsed to vote and some of those played politics with it. Sean Quinn has nothing to do with Children. Neither does paying out the bankers. Neither does the austerity measures by the government. Neither does the governments complete failure at times to do their job. All different issues. Yet people wanted to screw the kids by rejecting it. I'v been doing this for a few years now and I can see the way people are thinking when I meet them. Even yesterday, two people gave me reasons why they voted No and it was completely incorrect. One even admitted she didn't research it.

Yes, the government made a completely ****up of the referendum. What's new - its not the first time nor will it be the last. You can look back at various other policy implementations where PR was needed but was a mess; Water Charges & Property Tax. Yes the booklet was biased in some sections. Yes, Minister Shatter and others should have apologised for this - the highest court in the land tells you it was biased, tough cookies.

I would have always taken little notice of what one particular side has to say on the matter as there is always going to be suspicion a hint of bias. The Referendum Commission sole job was to give a neutral perspective and for the second time the government stuck their oar in and ****ed it all up. Yes people want more information but they could just listen to various debates, research it online, look up the referendum commission and see what they have to say on it all. The government should stay well clear of handing out such booklets.

Postpone? No. Why? The people have had plenty of avenues to educate themselves on, this issue has been delayed, postponed, ****ed around the table for years and a minor cockup should not prevent it being postponed. 99% of the Dail were in agreement on this - including Sinn Fein who object to everything. There were plenty of debates and material available to research on and I doubt anybody for one second focused just on the governments material which was only partly biased.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Has anyone actually read the booklet that came to explain the whole process of this referendum? Its written in a confusing and jargonish way to confuse the reader and ultimately leave them wondering what the hell they are voting on. Its not user friendly in the least and taking away the fact that the government thinks the average Irish person is stupid, they obviously dress up the language in such a way as to put even more people off voting!

Which one?

Wanderer2010

Which one? The only one that came through my door, that one. Its filled with jargon and unequal arguments for either the Yes or No vote and leans in a manner which is trying to convince you to vote Yes. Just as the Lisbon Treaty before it, government booklets are useless when trying to convine the public what the issue before them even is. Its not up to the people to trawl through websites to educate themselves, its up to the government to provide an unbiased explanation of the facts and deliver them to you so you can make up your own mind. I would wager that most people didnt vote, not because they wanted to stick it to the government but they didnt have a clue what it was about..

Sully

Waterford has voted in favour of the referendum – Yes 55.95% No 44.05%. Turnout was 35%.

No doubt this will be challenged though, which I think is a good idea. I'm not sure the courts would overturn the result, but it may set better standards in terms of how the government and campaigners communicate with people.

I cant help but feel this was poorly communicated. The political parties (non-government) did very little at all, which was a great shame. The government didn't exactly do a great job either, putting aside the Supreme Court ruling - felt they could have done better. But a particular blame needs to be put on our media - radio, TV, print - for not covering this as much as they should.

The Referendum Commission, as always, did a great job. I would like to see them being allowed run 'Don't forget to vote' throughout the day voting was taking place tho.

Sully

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Which one? The only one that came through my door, that one. Its filled with jargon and unequal arguments for either the Yes or No vote and leans in a manner which is trying to convince you to vote Yes. Just as the Lisbon Treaty before it, government booklets are useless when trying to convine the public what the issue before them even is. Its not up to the people to trawl through websites to educate themselves, its up to the government to provide an unbiased explanation of the facts and deliver them to you so you can make up your own mind. I would wager that most people didnt vote, not because they wanted to stick it to the government but they didnt have a clue what it was about..

There should have been two. A referendum commission (setup by the government, but to remain independent) and the botched one from the government (not supposed to be biased, sections happened to be)

JPA

I can understand somebody voting no because they didn't understand the change but anybody else should be ashamed of themselves.

Potential-Monke

Should i be ashamed of myself for not voting? I have no children, and i never want them (nor do i like them!). I couldn't care less, this referendum doesn't affect me and because of that i didn't vote. Why should i let my vote sway the result when it doesn't apply to me? Was i not better off leaving it to be decided between people who it does affect?

I know loads of people didn't vote because it was poorly advertised, poorly explained and apparently one sided. My brother rang me looking for advice on what to vote. I was the wrong person to be asking and i told him so. But, going by what he said, he researched it for the whole day Friday, online, and by asking the many people he knows who also have children. He couldn't get a straight answer. He didn't come across anyone or anything which gave the facts straight out in easy to understand language. I don't know what he voted, but he was erring on the side of no due to lack of information and the feeling that the Government were pushing for a yes vote.

Some people are not good with referendums, and need it in more simple language. Legal jargon goes way over some peoples head, even the jargon you'd consider simple could be complex to someone who has no understanding or dealings with this kind of information.

JPA

I was saying anyone who voted no while actually understanding the referendum should be ashamed of themselves.

But Potential-Monke even if you don't have children or ever plan to , the referendum was still about children being taken care of so you sound very heartless.

Hoffmans

JPA wrote: »

I was saying anyone who voted no while actually understanding the referendum should be ashamed of themselves.

But Potential-Monke even if you don't have children or ever plan to , the referendum was still about children being taken care of so you sound very heartless.

this is a very sheepish view i doubt you understand he ramifications of this narrow yes vote, hopefully a legal challenge to the result will be successful..

Sully

Hoffmans wrote: »

this is a very sheepish view i doubt you understand he ramifications of this narrow yes vote, hopefully a legal challenge to the result will be successful..

A re-run will increase the Yes sides margin, IMO.

JPA

Hoffmans wrote: »

this is a very sheepish view i doubt you understand he ramifications of this narrow yes vote, hopefully a legal challenge to the result will be successful..

It seems to me the no voters consisted of people who didn't understand it so voted no as a protest, people who voted no to protest the government, people who completely misunderstood it or people influenced by religious bs from the likes of Dana.

I'd like to hear any kind of proper argument from anyone who advocated no.
The constitution is outdated and still influenced by the church, this change was needed.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Yes, I believe people buy into bull**** and lies.

Like Fine Gael.........:D