Gardai Harrasing Busker in Templebar

BigSiyo85

BizzyC wrote: »

What???

On the occasion or night of the video.....we were NOT told a number of times to stop and move on. We were NOT told we would be arrested. We did NOT refuse to comply with lawful proceedings. I did NOT interfere. He did NOT resist a lawful arrest.

Death and Taxes

BigSiyo85 wrote: »

I will not respond to anymore comments, some of your opinions are so misinformed its ridiculous, some of your opinions are so bias its laughable. This thread is full of Gardai and there no different on a forum then they are out on the streets.

You basically admitted in earlier posts that you and your mates just do whatever you like, with no regard for the rights of others including residents and you treat the Gardai with contempt in their dealings with you.
You need to cop on.
BTW I do presume you are paying tax on the money you earn while buskingwrecking the peace.

yoyo

WileyCoyote wrote: »

You basically admitted in earlier posts that you and your mates just do whatever you like, with no regard for the rights of others including residents and you treat the Gardai with contempt in their dealings with you.
You need to cop on.
BTW I do presume you are paying tax on the money you earn while buskingwrecking the peace.

Having lived in Temple Bar for a short time this is the impression most buskers give. They have no consideration for the residents living in the area as well as how the crowds they gather disrupt the flow off essential traffic through the streets (ambulances, garda cars etc.).
I used to ring the gards quite a bit and no sooner would they have left and the amps would be cracked full way up again. Imagine living just above 2 electric guitars, a drum kit amplified and a flute amplified for most nights of the week... Dublin needs a permit system for busking like London, only parts of the city away from residential buildings and a limit to the amount of noise buskers can make or they loose the permit.

Nick

Babooshka

Sounds like the guards were sick and tired of you making a nuisance of yourselves to be honest. I am not a guard and I don't know any guards.
You're lucky you weren't in Sweden doing that...their police carry guns, and most people do what they ask the very first time they ask, they don't have to use the guns much at all. People just seem to have more respect for them. It's not your city to just run amok in, there are laws, and there's also the basic "don't be an arsehole" unwritten law which most people just stick by. I'd basically think if the Guards approached me several times in a night to try to get me to F*ck off, that I must be being a pain in the arse mostly, not that they were pinpointing me to stifle my rights and spoil my fun...I'd say they have more to be doing. I am a musician by the way, but I wouldn't just take over any area with an amp at 3am and genuinely believe I was making people happy, so to hell with the Guards.

BigSiyo85 wrote: »

they had a chip and were a wee bit hurt over that, as we got that very minor 1 over them.



We are NOT SCUM nor are WE KNACKERS - We are PROVOKED AND BULLIED

Cheers

Seriously, you even thinking that the Guardai would have time to think they were in a game of tit for tat with you reeks of your immaturity and you need to grow up a lot. This isn't the Beano you're living in.

I am sure you're not a scumbag....you just need to grow up a bit. I am sorry to hear you lost your gear in that way. If the Guardai keep harrassing you it's for a reason, you're doing something you shouldn't be. That is mostly the way it is.

--Kaiser--

BigSiyo85 just hoisted himself with his own petard

Madam_X

Anyone who busks in a residential area at 2am is being completely out of order.

Grayson

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

BigSiyo85 just hoisted himself with his own petard

If that was him. I mean, no-one's stupid enough to come on here and post that ****e. It has to be a wind up.

msg11

BigSiyo85 wrote: »

I will not respond to anymore comments, some of your opinions are so misinformed its ridiculous, some of your opinions are so bias its laughable. This thread is full of Gardai and there no different on a forum then they are out on the streets.

I have read over your events of the night. Two things come to mind.

1. You where more than likely asked to move/leave the area under the public order act, for what ever reason the Garda thought/used the act. You failed to move on a few times when asked (you said in your post), the Garda wanted to arrest your friend (dunno the reason)and from the sounds of it started resiting arrest and then you guys started getting in the mix.

2. A case of mistaken identity? Maybe the Garda did get calls about a group of performers , the Garda just assumed it was you lads. Hense the serious communication break down on both sides here.

3. I said it in the last post, the situation was seriously badly handled, by the Garda and by yourself. Yes, there was a bit of man handling going on. But why didn't you just move when asked? You even said yourself, there's a crowd, you questioned there authority in front of a crowd. Its going to end up, you moving on one way or another.

4. By the looks of it, you have a serious problem with the way your situation was handled and if you feel it is out of the bounds of law then lodge a complaint with the GSOC. Your going to go around in circles here on this forum.

MagicSean

BigSiyo85 wrote: »

On the occasion or night of the video.....we were NOT told a number of times to stop and move on. We were NOT told we would be arrested. We did NOT refuse to comply with lawful proceedings. I did NOT interfere. He did NOT resist a lawful arrest.

i think I see what you are saying here. Your "Firstly" to "Fourthly" were on different days and your problem is that some gardaí let you off on occasions while other Gardaí didn't. And you think that that gave you the right to tell the stricter ones to get lost.

Allyall

I think BigSiyo85, that your biggest blindspot, is not realising that there are not only 3 of you performing.
Yeah, there may be 3 in the group, and it probably is a lot of harmless fun, but in the videos posted on Youtube, there is constantly about 30-50 of you singing at the top of your voices.
If you want to do that, go somewhere non-residential. You may think Dublin City Centre is fair game, as it is where most of the nightclubs/drinking/late night antics happen, but it is still a residential area and a lot of people don't want to deal with 30-50 people singing outside their bedroom.
Most drunken antics last for about 5 minutes, as they are moving all the time. Where as, the Un Dutchables are in the same spot for 2 hours or more.

If 30 people were outside my house singing for that length of time, that late at night, you can be sure i'd be ringing the Gardaí.

ebixa82

BigSiyo85 wrote: »

On the occasion or night of the video.....we were NOT told a number of times to stop and move on. We were NOT told we would be arrested. We did NOT refuse to comply with lawful proceedings. I did NOT interfere. He did NOT resist a lawful arrest.

The cops were right to treat that little ginger bollix like that. Playing crap music, disturbing the peace and then acting the hard man as he has the support of a drunken mob.

Cops were not half hard enough IMO.

Although Temple Bar is a total sh.ithole. People who live there have no real right to complain about noise. It's not like they didn't realise what it would be like before they moved in.

green day rule

It's ****ing stuipd my band go busking not to make money to bring our music to new people and if we make money its a bonus
We don't even wanna busk any more over **** like this
and because the band are only 13 we cant get gigs with out getting ripped off
Its like the guards got mad with power!!

Allyall

ebixa82 wrote: »

The cops were right to treat that little ginger bollix like that. Playing crap music, disturbing the peace and then acting the hard man as he has the support of a drunken mob.

Cops were not half hard enough IMO.

Although Temple Bar is a total sh.ithole. People who live there have no real right to complain about noise. It's not like they didn't realise what it would be like before they moved in.

Huh?
How do you know they were drunk?
They weren't hard enough?

People don't have a right to complain, because they knew it would be noisy before they moved in...

It's not that noisy most of the time, and when noise becomes annoying, and ongoing, anyone has the right to complain. Passers by, Residents, Restaurant customers, Postmen, Milkmen, Farmers, Professional swimmers, Rocket Scientists, Bungalow owners, Basement dwellers.. You get the idea..

Babooshka

green day rule wrote: »

It's ****ing stuipd my band go busking not to make money to bring our music to new people and if we make money its a bonus
We don't even wanna busk any more over **** like this
and because the band are only 13 we cant get gigs with out getting ripped off
Its like the guards got mad with power!!

Well just do it before 2 am, it's not that difficult.

green day rule

Babooshka wrote: »

Well just do it before 2 am, it's not that difficult.

We Do It Early and we still get harrassed
We get robbed,Moved on,get pushed off polls when we get up to attract attention!
and even other buskers move right beside us and they bring amps and we dont have any!

kippy

Is't there a "permit to busk" or something similiar, required to busk in Dublin already?
I had always assumed there was to be honest.

Babooshka

green day rule wrote: »

We Do It Early and we still get harrassed
We get robbed,Moved on,get pushed off polls when we get up to attract attention!
and even other buskers move right beside us and they bring amps and we don't have any!

Them's the breaks...I think there are laws about busking but not sure I never busked, but it sounds like a messy not worthwhile experience (at that hour in a drunk zone). Did you say you were 13? My Mother would have walloped my arse outta temple bar at 3am when I was 13, it's no place for a 13 yr old. Just saying.

green day rule

Babooshka wrote: »

Them's the breaks...I think there are laws about busking but not sure I never busked, but it sounds like a messy not worthwhile experience (at that hour in a drunk zone). Did you say you were 13? My Mother would have walloped my arse outta temple bar at 3am when I was 13, it's no place for a 13 yr old. Just saying.

No The Latest we've we've ever busked was probably 8 PM
Yeah Theres no way i'd be allowed busk at that time!!

Babooshka

green day rule wrote: »

No The Latest we've we've ever busked was probably 8 PM
Yeah Theres no way i'd be allowed busk at that time!!

Oh right, sorry I thought you were from the initial OP.

tin79

BigSiyo85 wrote: »

Before they even leave Maynooth. That attitude, smirk and ego is all in place.

All in place alright buddy, a different place! Priests graduate from Maynooth, Gardai from Templemore.

hardCopy

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

BigSiyo85 just hoisted himself with his own petard

Who are you calling a petard?!

That's offensive!

MadsL

Aw, all this complaining isn't very rock and roll now is it.
Remember kids...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBShN8qT4lk

joefastfingers

busking on the streets without a license is illegal.. thats what cause it. ridiclous how heavily enforced this petty crime is.

hatrickpatrick

Babooshka wrote: »

Well just do it before 2 am, it's not that difficult.

Why though? That part of Temple Bar can hardly be called a residential area, who is he hurting?

bodhrandude

Babooshka wrote: »

Sounds like the guards were sick and tired of you making a nuisance of yourselves to be honest. I am not a guard and I don't know any guards.
You're lucky you weren't in Sweden doing that...their police carry guns, and most people do what they ask the very first time they ask, they don't have to use the guns much at all. People just seem to have more respect for them. It's not your city to just run amok in, there are laws, and there's also the basic "don't be an arsehole" unwritten law which most people just stick by. I'd basically think if the Guards approached me several times in a night to try to get me to F*ck off, that I must be being a pain in the arse mostly, not that they were pinpointing me to stifle my rights and spoil my fun...I'd say they have more to be doing. I am a musician by the way, but I wouldn't just take over any area with an amp at 3am and genuinely believe I was making people happy, so to hell with the Guards.






Seriously, you even thinking that the Guardai would have time to think they were in a game of tit for tat with you reeks of your immaturity and you need to grow up a lot. This isn't the Beano you're living in.

I am sure you're not a scumbag....you just need to grow up a bit. I am sorry to hear you lost your gear in that way. If the Guardai keep harrassing you it's for a reason, you're doing something you shouldn't be. That is mostly the way it is.

I agree here, was in Istanbul last April and there was some lively busking on the street in the early hours with a fare crowd, the police shouted through a megaphone to go home, everyone dispersed like wildfire, the Turkish police carry machine guns so no one is going to shout killjoy to them.

MadsL

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why though? That part of Temple Bar can hardly be called a residential area, who is he hurting?

Because of the DCC code of conduct for buskers perhaps? So that everyone gets a fair crack (craic?) and the peace (man) is not disturbed.

hatrickpatrick

MadsL wrote: »

Because of the DCC code of conduct for buskers perhaps? So that everyone gets a fair crack (craic?) and the peace (man) is not disturbed.

It's a weekend night in what is basically the main nightlife district of Dublin, having such curfews there is utterly moronic. If it was in a proper residential area I'd absolutely understand, but expecting peace and quiet in Temple Bar is like expecting safety in Syria.

Fuinseog

has anyone compared the poor crusty to Rodney King yet?

MadsL

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's a weekend night in what is basically the main nightlife district of Dublin, having such curfews there is utterly moronic. If it was in a proper residential area I'd absolutely understand, but expecting peace and quiet in Temple Bar is like expecting safety in Syria.

There is a difference between "peace and quiet" and "the peace" as in disturbing it.

If a no amp policy is in place, isn't it entirely reasonable to enforce it? Especially preventing amplified music at 2am. That's not a "curfew", it is just asking for some reasonable consideration.

Temple Bar does have people living there you know, I'm not sure of your definition of "proper'?

Assuming you live in an apartment, how would you feel about an amped band in the courtyard at 2am? Asking for that to be turned down isn't about curfews it is about simple human respect.

yoyo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why though? That part of Temple Bar can hardly be called a residential area, who is he hurting?

Most of Temple Bar is residential though, that's the thing. Above most of the pubs/cafes/restaurants etc. are appartments, all around the two squares there are appartments. Many probably don't know it but as an area temple bar has hundreds living there. Thats one of the reasons Tesco opened up there 2 years ago as well probably.

It's a weekend night in what is basically the main nightlife district of Dublin, having such curfews there is utterly moronic. If it was in a proper residential area I'd absolutely understand, but expecting peace and quiet in Temple Bar is like expecting safety in Syria.

Temple Bar is a "proper" residential area though, it just happens to have lots of pubs and clubs and be attractive towards tourists. Also you don't get that kind of loud busking in London, Ireland should definitely follow suit. Believe me if you lived in temple bar you would agree amps should be banned from the area permanently, as theres always some who rip the p*ss unfortunately.

Nick

hatrickpatrick

MadsL wrote: »

There is a difference between "peace and quiet" and "the peace" as in disturbing it.

If a no amp policy is in place, isn't it entirely reasonable to enforce it? Especially preventing amplified music at 2am. That's not a "curfew", it is just asking for some reasonable consideration.

Temple Bar does have people living there you know, I'm not sure of your definition of "proper'?

Assuming you live in an apartment, how would you feel about an amped band in the courtyard at 2am? Asking for that to be turned down isn't about curfews it is about simple human respect.

He turned it down and they still arrested him, firstly.
Secondly, if I wanted peace on a Saturday night I wouldn't choose to live in the nightclub strip of the capital city 2AM on a weekend night is not late. Hell, Walters in Dun Laoghaire plays music later than that which I can hear from my house down the road from it, as long as it's not in the middle of the week no one's going to make a fuss about it there.

If we can't have nightlife in Temple Bar at the weekend then where can we have it, exactly?

yoyo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

He turned it down and they still arrested him, firstly.
Secondly, if I wanted peace on a Saturday night I wouldn't choose to live in the nightclub strip of the capital city 2AM on a weekend night is not late. Hell, Walters in Dun Laoghaire plays music later than that which I can hear from my house down the road from it, as long as it's not in the middle of the week no one's going to make a fuss about it there.

If we can't have nightlife in Temple Bar at the weekend then where can we have it, exactly?

The buskers don't only play on Saturday nights, it's usually 7 nights a week weather permitting... How would you feel if you couldn't hear the tv, radio, listen to music or converse with somebody who called over due to the noise from amps? That is how loud the buskers were when I lived in Temple Bar. A few lads with non amped guitars singing without mics wouldn't be an issue, of course drunk people want noise and the buskers amp up to maximize profits intake. This in turn severely affects the residents quality of life. If buskers want to busk with amps I'm sure there are plenty of streets in dublin without appartments or houses on them, temple bar was redesigned not with the intention of a p*ss up strip but to include a mix of residential houses and cafes/bars.
Just because the cultural trust like to think of it as different does not negate the fact hundreds live there. The noise leaking from clubs/pubs and drunks isn't actually bad due to the double glazing windows, the amps on the other hand make everything sound like you are living in a drum

Nick

RDM_83 again

yoyo wrote: »

The buskers don't only play on Saturday nights, it's usually 7 nights a week weather permitting... How would you feel if you couldn't hear the tv, radio, listen to music or converse with somebody who called over due to the noise from amps? That is how loud the buskers were when I lived in Temple Bar. A few lads with non amped guitars singing without mics wouldn't be an issue, of course drunk people want noise and the buskers amp up to maximize profits intake. This in turn severely affects the residents quality of life. If buskers want to busk with amps I'm sure there are plenty of streets in dublin without appartments or houses on them, temple bar was redesigned not with the intention of a p*ss up strip but to include a mix of residential houses and cafes/bars.
Just because the cultural trust like to think of it as different does not negate the fact hundreds live there. The noise leaking from clubs/pubs and drunks isn't actually bad due to the double glazing windows, the amps on the other hand make everything sound like you are living in a drum

Nick

Agree with all that and being an ex templebar resident I have to say it left me with a deep deep hatred of drumming hippies (which are loud enough without being amplified)

Handsome Bob

Something tells me if the commentator hadn't got a camera on them he would have gotten a bit of brutality of his own. It's hard to be won over by your argument when you're chasing after them and calling them filth and pigs.

Mr. Boo

You're all wrong. THis video is wall-to-wall tramps.

arybvtcw0eolkf

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why though? That part of Temple Bar can hardly be called a residential area, who is he hurting?

He was outside Crampton Buildings, built in the 19th century and the oldest of Templbars residential units.. There are 54 apartments in the complex, plus commercial units ~ thats pretty residential to me.

ceegee

jasonmcco wrote: »

You seen the garda being over the top and heavy handed and still side with them.Peoples misplaced faith in garda is what allows them to behave so disgracefully.

I trust the crowd who were there and they were definitely on the side of the victim.

Oh yeah and Rodney King well he was probably scum in you eyes i suppose.

Nah, Rodney was a salt of the earth kinda guy. Bar the armed robbery, repeated drunk driving and running over his wife, he never did anything to anyone.

MelissaaJ

What was their reason for arrest?

WilcoOut

MelissaaJ wrote: »

What was their reason for arrest?

section 8 public order act

anncoates

No street performer deserves to be violently pepper sprayed and assaulted unless he's David McSavage

MagicSean

BigSiyo85 on the 104 phoneshow lying his ass off

hardCopy

MagicSean wrote: »

BigSiyo85 on the 104 phoneshow lying his ass off

Adrian Kennedy, the last resort of people who can't even get on Joe Duffy (or get out of bed early enough).

bodhrandude

Its good to know when you overstep the line for the next time, I have been a busker in Galway since the early 1990s, there was the odd time when a bunch of us overstepped the mark.

One night there was myself, a guitarist, a musician playing one of these panpipe reed instruments that you hear on the early Incredible String Band albums (the Cairn I think its called), a Scottish bagpiper and an amazing tin whistler, plus an assortment of other musicians.

Anyway this was before the pedestrianisation of Shop Street and it was about 1.30 am in the morning the guards came up and said wind it up lads. After they passed we started up again, the crowd gathering from coming from the pubs so at times bringing the traffic to a standstill. The guards came a few times and told us to finish up, but some of the musicians kept pushing it. The final time the guards came, I put my bodhran in my bag, one of the guards came over and started detuning the guitarists instrument, when that happened I just said right lads Im off, see you in the morning. Its true though some people just dont know when to stop playing.

hatrickpatrick

There is absolutely no excuse for batons to be drawn unless there is no other choice to prevent someone being harmed. This lad was clearly not a threat to the gardai or to anyone else standing around, ergo the use of batons was excessive.

End of story as far as I'm concerned. Violence is only acceptable if it's either self defense or defending someone else. In this case it was neither. Guard lost his temper and beat the guy up - and if you are incapable of controlling your temper, you shouldn't be a policeman.

And before anyone comes in with "but the lads were shouting at them" - words are not a justification for violence. If some lads insulted me and I punched them in the face, I'd be done for assault, and rightly so. The Gardai in this video escalated the situation from a nonviolent confrontation to a fracas, and there is absolutely no excuse for this whatsoever.

dorkacle

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There is absolutely no excuse for batons to be drawn unless there is no other choice to prevent someone being harmed. This lad was clearly not a threat to the gardai or to anyone else standing around, ergo the use of batons was excessive.

End of story as far as I'm concerned. Violence is only acceptable if it's either self defense or defending someone else. In this case it was neither. Guard lost his temper and beat the guy up - and if you are incapable of controlling your temper, you shouldn't be a policeman.

And before anyone comes in with "but the lads were shouting at them" - words are not a justification for violence. If some lads insulted me and I punched them in the face, I'd be done for assault, and rightly so. The Gardai in this video escalated the situation from a nonviolent confrontation to a fracas, and there is absolutely no excuse for this whatsoever.

Can't agree more, I've had very little interaction with Gardai in my time, and tbh on a personal level none at all. Any time I have, a friend/aquaintance was invloved and the guards more often than not escilated the situation needlessly.

I have a couple of friends now in the guards too, they know what they can get away with and sometimes this kind of thing is a bit of a laugh for them from what I've been told. Sure if someone disagree's they'll arrest them...

And sure what is a member of the public's word against 3 guards? Particularly if you have had a drink on you?

Sure even reporting something, which on rare occasion I have, they act as if your just making work for them....

Ironically, their seeming lack of regulation makes me less likely to cross them...

Augmerson

GrumPy wrote: »

Love how the camera man sounds like an absolute knackbag.

So having a Dublin accent makes you a knackbag?

kippy

dorkacle wrote: »

Can't agree more, I've had very little interaction with Gardai in my time, and tbh on a personal level none at all. Any time I have, a friend/aquaintance was invloved and the guards more often than not escilated the situation needlessly.

I have a couple of friends now in the guards too, they know what they can get away with and sometimes this kind of thing is a bit of a laugh for them from what I've been told. Sure if someone disagree's they'll arrest them...

And sure what is a member of the public's word against 3 guards? Particularly if you have had a drink on you?

Sure even reporting something, which on rare occasion I have, they act as if your just making work for them....

Ironically, their seeming lack of regulation makes me less likely to cross them...

You know what, I've never had an issue with the Gardai and rarely had any reason to interact with them (outside of checkpoints, signing forms etc)
There's an obvious reason for that.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Augmerson wrote: »

So having a Dublin accent makes you a knackbag?

yes

Augmerson

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

yes

ah heyor!

0325422

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

There is absolutely no excuse for batons to be drawn unless there is no other choice to prevent someone being harmed. This lad was clearly not a threat to the gardai or to anyone else standing around, ergo the use of batons was excessive.

End of story as far as I'm concerned. Violence is only acceptable if it's either self defense or defending someone else. In this case it was neither. Guard lost his temper and beat the guy up - and if you are incapable of controlling your temper, you shouldn't be a policeman.

And before anyone comes in with "but the lads were shouting at them" - words are not a justification for violence. If some lads insulted me and I punched them in the face, I'd be done for assault, and rightly so. The Gardai in this video escalated the situation from a nonviolent confrontation to a fracas, and there is absolutely no excuse for this whatsoever.

He didn't exactly beat the guy up, he got one baton strike accross the legs, if a person is being arrested a member of an Garda siochana is entitled to use reasonable force to effect arrest.. Would you prefer prisoners were tickled into paddy wagons? Although saying that it could have been handled a little better.. Never a great idea to pull out the baton in a large crowd..

The member who used the baton was a reserve.. Perhaps a full time member might have been able to handle the situation better.. Why don't the government put money into recruiting full time members instead of plugging man power shortages with the garda reserve.. (not intended as a dig at the reserve, just the government)