anyone know about generators

Fallschirmjager

well its christmas coming and we are starting to save for...all things generator(ish).

I am not looking for a replacement for electricity but a temporary solution, (think esb strike or the recent storm in NY or some week long issue)

i am undecided between a petrol or diesel

http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/hyundai-dhy6000se-generator.htm

or

http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/SDMO_Inverter_Pro_3000.htm

now neither of these are cheap. in fact they are far from it and i only picked those for an example.

so does anyone here know the benefits and disadvantages of each. anyone know how you get them serviced for example. from some web analysis i see diesel is more for regular usage and long term usage and indeed needs to be run regularly and petrol generators are more costly, need more servicing and dont appear to be designed for long term usage (and by that i mean running for say a week 12 hours a day). anyone got any thoughts on that? is it true or BS? one of the benefits of the petrol generator is that you can get a modification to accept bottled gas so that would be a good option in times of trouble but then again maybe the diesel could be modified to accept vegetable oil?

also is there an issue with noise pollution and the law and/or diesel fumes. we live in a housing estate.

also i do want to get a transfer switch like this http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/pages/Calgary_Transfer_Switch.htm

anyone know how much it cost roughly to get an electrician to do this? the reason i want this is otherwise our gas heating wont work and i do like the option of powering the house although in a far limited fashion.

i would greatly appreciate your personal experience in this.

g7sxb

I'd go with diesel is money isn't an issue. At least with diesel you'd have more fuel options like using red diesel, kerosene, vegatable oil, much cheaper than petrol and vegatable oil is much easier to source when everything else fails, the down side is the initial purchase cost.

I personally use a petrol generator at my off grid cottage for use in times of dire emergency, problems with the solar or wind power systems. It's a cheap 60 quid one from one of the German owned supermarkets, it's smelly and loud but I'm out in the backside of nowhere so no issues with neighbours. I think some of the more modern Honda generators ar practically silent but silence comes at a price.

Fallschirmjager

thanks for the reply...you have solar/wind backup, wow..i assume you are happy with it. i am guessing it isnt cheap however....but again im speaking from very little knowledge on it.

The Aussie

Ive just got this work done recently, im using a 5.5Kva Generator ive had for a while for use on Sites when there used to be Sites, just found the cost and breakdown in a text from the Sparky, goes as as follows.

New Outside Socket, New Sub Mains Cable to House Fuse Board in 6sq SWA (13 meters), New Contactor and change over arrangement at house fuse board, new trunking to contain all cables in utility room. Amount 250 euro.

I had to pick what circuits i wanted as i could not run the whole house on a generator successfully without being your friendly household Power Nazi, if i ever come across something like a 30Kva Genny (:rolleyes:) in the future i can easily throw everything on there, so in the end i went for all the Lights, half the Kitchen Sockets (Kettle will have to be confiscated during Genny use though) and the Boiler.
With that we can still cook, clean and keep warm while others whinge, complain and smell

BTW, you dont have to buy a new Genny, there are some very good second hand ones about for half the cost and for the amount of use it will get will be grand with a service every couple of years or so

g7sxb

"...you have solar/wind backup, wow....i assume you are happy with it."

I'm relatively happy with the solution I have. It was all done experimentally and if I had to do it again I would have gone bigger on the wind turbine and smaller on the solar panels. I currently have 750 Watts of solar panels (not cheap at the best part of 1200 Euro) and a 300 Watt wind turbine (300 Euro). What I should have done is gone for a single 250 watt solar panel and a 500 Watt or 1kW wind turbine. I run the whole house via a single 180 Ah battery and a 2Kw Inverter (all in the whole system probably cost around 1800 Euro with charge controllers, batteries etc).

Solar panels are a doddle to install, the wind turbine less so as you really have to plan where your, going to site it, how you're going to erect it, and what you're going to do with the excess energy it creates. I've got to the point where I'm trying to devise clever ways to waste electricity!

When going down this route one has to seriously think about power consumption and always remember the old adage "It's cheaper to save electricity than to make it".

gman2k

Solar PV is now below a dollar a watt, and even Windy fanboys admit that if you are serious about generating electricity, on the most cost efficient basis, with the most minimal of maintenance, then it has to be PV.
If if you completely DIY your turbine, using a Hugh Piggot design or similar, Solar PV is still a no brainer.

BailMeOut

Do you have natural gas hookup in you house? If so a gas generator is a good option since you always have fuel available and no fuel storage to worry about.

Fallschirmjager

really appreciate the help from everyone...some excellent food for thought there. on the wiring up of the house, in my ignorance i though it was a case of getting a switch outside and controlling usage on the inside. thanks for the price, i wasnt sure was it 50 euro or 2k.

also the wind/solar rigout is very interesting.

i do have natural gas but those btards have made it so fecking expensive. i guess it is worth considering however. always good to have an option i guess.

DiggingDeep

Don't knock the petrol generators too soon, they are more portable and can be converted to run on propane or ethanol fuel. There are converter kits available for the small honda gensets - not the silent ones with the plastic shell but those with the Gx 120,160,200 engines. A cylinder of propane will last till the cylinder itself rusts through, unlike petrol.

Converting to run on ethanol is slightly tricky with the new engines but I have an old one and all you have to do is pull the choke out and she'll run away grand on e 85, when they still sold that in Ireland, straight ethanol could be more tricky but probably not impossible.

CRM Ireland

Probably not what youre looking for, but I saw an advert for Bargain Base in Northwood, Dublin selling brand new petrol generators. They are a bargain outlet for Lidl and sell all their specials at a reduced price a couple of weeks after its been in the Lidl stores. I think it was reduced from around 2.79EUR to 99.99EUR.

DiggingDeep

Here's a commercial petrol engine based genset that can run on timber if you have an external gassifier: http://stakproperties.com/index.php?p=3_82

You can build a gasifier yourself too if you have the time and convert an existing genny. A lot easier to get a few blocks of timber than growing rape seed and squeezing the oil out of it with no power

Markcheese

DiggingDeep wrote: »

Here's a commercial petrol engine based genset that can run on timber if you have an external gassifier: http://stakproperties.com/index.php?p=3_82

You can build a gasifier yourself too if you have the time and convert an existing genny. A lot easier to get a few blocks of timber than growing rape seed and squeezing the oil out of it with no power

I suppose if it's a short term keep the heat and lights on , then it's more about fuel storage... Do you really want several large jerry cans of petrol in the shed or garage in a hot summer , specially if there are kids around.... Diesel seems to break down after sitting around for a while, gas seems a good option keep the cylinders in a dry spot and your fine( comes in it's own container too) might mean a better genny to fit the gas kit to...

gman2k

If you worried about week long power cuts, why bother with gennies?
Petrol won't be readily available either.
Also, the power output from most generators is not clean, so can damage electronics, and not powerful enough to even boil a kettle.
Install a wood burning stove, have a supply of fuel at hand.

The Aussie

gman2k wrote: »

Petrol won't be readily available either.

That depends on the user and how resourceful they are, if power outages last for a week I can rob fuel out of the My old Series 1 Land Rover, the Ride On, the Jerry Can for the work Power Washer, the Outboard fuel tank, strimmer, hedger, blower, chainsaw even the Wife's Car. So you could say there is in between 200L and 300L at any given time, that is some amount of running time there, all it would be used for is to keep the lights on, Boiler and the fridge running

gman2k

The Aussie wrote: »

That depends on the user and how resourceful they are, if power outages last for a week I can rob fuel out of the My old Series 1 Land Rover, the Ride On, the Jerry Can for the work Power Washer, the Outboard fuel tank, strimmer, hedger, blower, chainsaw even the Wife's Car. So you could say there is in between 200L and 300L at any given time, that is some amount of running time there, all it would be used for is to keep the lights on, Boiler and the fridge running

The average Joe in suburbia will not have much petrol lying around, maybe 10l max excluding the car. Premixed 2 stroke petrol should not be used if the gennie is not 2 stroke.
10l in a gennie won't last too long. If an outage is expected to last a week (doesn't happen in suburbia here) then keeping petrol in the car will be more important.

The Aussie

The average joe in suburbia is not going to have a big dry wood pile at hand to keep a stove running all that long either really.

Stovepipe

I dunno. A lot of people are getting used to buying a trailer load and sticking it out the back. Apart from that, given the amount of clean water a family uses, how do you guys plan for that? Boiling large quantities over a stove?

regards
Stovepipe

FISMA

Fallschirmjager,

I think I would go with the Honda Inverter. I have one of these, but live in the states.

If you have an electrician in the family, it should be no bother to back feed your electrical panel. Just don't try this on your own - a mistake could lead to death.

I bought a double switch for my electrical box on which I put a cable. It works, however, the best solution is to run a dedicated line as you inquired. Just make sure the line is as short as possible in order to minimize losses.

The Honda Inverters are fantastic. I was able to run my fridge, watch tv, have on a few lights, and have heat. Note: my stove, dryer, and furnace are all gas. I did not try the washing machine.

Two refills a day (2 gallons) powered my needs except for when I shut down from about midnight until 6:00AM.

This generator is really quiet too. You could talk to someone without yelling while standing over it.

Thus, I vote this one.

If you are into camping, this is nice to have a few creature comforts without waking up the forestry.

Finally, don't forget that they can turn off the natural gas to your home. I have a relative that lives along the East Coast by NYC. They got slammed by Sandy and the gas lines were turned off due to ruptures. If the point is self sufficiency, I would go petrol or diesel.