UFC 154: GSP vs. Condit

leggo

Ah look, I'm not going to go to cyber war with you over it. I think it's madness saying, as you appear to be, that GSP is a one-trick pony and doesn't stand a chance against Silva. He's undefeated in 10 fights, lost twice in 10 YEARS and has dominated some of the best names to step into the Octagon. If Chael Sonnen can give Anderson a good go, then someone who is more proficient in the same style definitely has to be respected. But we'll agree to disagree.

MrStuffins

leggo wrote: »

Ah look, I'm not going to go to cyber war with you over it. I think it's madness saying, as you appear to be, that GSP is a one-trick pony and doesn't stand a chance against Silva. He's undefeated in 10 fights, lost twice in 10 YEARS and has dominated some of the best names to step into the Octagon. If Chael Sonnen can give Anderson a good go, then someone who is more proficient in the same style definitely has to be respected. But we'll agree to disagree.

Anyone who would say such a thing as he is a one-trick pony is a nutter!
The guy is arguably the best all-rounder in the sport. And he is WITHOUT DOUBT a better all-rounder than Anderson Silva.

PauloConn

Was a great fight alright and GSP came out and got the job done. Pity Condit was slow starting but he still gave the champ a hell of a fight.
Reckon Hendricks deserves the next shot at GSP, even ahead of Silva although Dana's all about the $$$'s so that'll be put on the long finger. But that would be a hell of a fight although even with that big left, reckon GSP would still get inside and be able to take him down. Hendricks is a top wrestler but think GSP's use of it would enable him to control the fight, but still a good prospect of a battle.

pauldoo

No way GSP is a one trick pony, i would probably put him P4P at the top

If he was the same size as Silva, he would have no problem implementing a Sonnen type game plan, plus GSP has better standup and submissions that sonnen

I dont see the point in the match really, Silva is too big, same goes for Silva Jones, Silva is far smaller-Not too bothered with all this jumping weight classes

Only one i wanted to see was edgar v aldo (when edgar was champ) and that works cause of the small size of edgar

darced

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MrStuffins

darced wrote: »

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How many ways do you need?

Scar Tissue

darced wrote: »

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It wouldn't totally be outside of the realms of possibility for GSP for win other than wrestling his way to a victory.. just not all that likely

This is in the same way alot of the HW would be gunning for a KO victory as opposed to subbing a guy.

Why not play to your strengths, especially against an opponent of such calibre as Silva?

MrStuffins

Scar Tissue wrote: »

It wouldn't totally be outside of the realms of possibility for GSP for win other than wrestling his way to a victory.. just not all that likely

This is in the same way alot of the HW would be gunning for a KO victory as opposed to subbing a guy.

Why not play to your strengths, especially against an opponent of such calibre as Silva?

........ and to the weakness of your opponent!

Scar Tissue

MrStuffins wrote: »

........ and to the weakness of your opponent!

Hell yeah

paddythere

hendricks was outwrestled by rick story so i think gsp could easily outwrestle and take him down when he wants

darced

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adamski8

Lenin Skynard wrote: »

Pretty obvious now that they want to make the Silva fight. Can't see him edging points on that one.

i really disliked the silva cam being constantly up, wtf!

Dean09 wrote: »

I think Diaz is extremely overrated and Silva would make light work of him tbh.

Still haven't seen this event thanks to UPC being shíte. Anyone know where someone could catch it online, if they were that way inclined?
Not that I'd ever watch an illegal stream of course.

so upc didnt record it for you either? very annoying!


tom lawler absolutly robbed!!!! couldnt believe it wasnt 30-27.

MrStuffins

adamski8 wrote: »

tom lawler absolutly robbed!!!! couldnt believe it wasnt 30-27.

Even worse if you had money on it like I had

PauloConn

Saw this morning that GSP's trainer wants the Silva fight closer to WW than MW. Should be interesting to see if the spider can cut down to 175, that woould be tough for someone who's last fight was at 205. That would be a brutal cut for him and would be interesting to see if that would level the playing field a bit for GSP.

SDTimeout

Diaz beats Silva if it somehow ever happened.

Mr. Manager

SDTimeout wrote: »

Diaz beats Silva if it somehow ever happened.

What? Seriously? I normally agree with a lot of your posts but this one.. no way.

As for Silva cutting to WW, GSP was saying that he reckons he walks around upwards of 220, possibly even 230. A cut to 175 would be horrible for him.

preddy

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

What? Seriously? I normally agree with a lot of your posts but this one.. no way.

As for Silva cutting to WW, GSP was saying that he reckons he walks around upwards of 220, possibly even 230. A cut to 175 would be horrible for him.

Yea i don't like this fight for purely weight/size reasons,
what does GSP walk around at b4 he cuts?
GSP moving up or staying at his pre cut weight makes more sense.

Be like Nutella

Think the Diaz fight will have to happen eventually to close that door. Silva wins by outclassing and out powering and out everything-ing but still a worthy match-up... relatively speaking to how others stack up.

GSP shouldn't go up to 185 unless it's just pizza like Penn v Machida. But why the hell should he be the one to make all the weight? feck the titles... this thing is beyond titles here... they're the best by far in their respective divisions. This is about a freak fight between two of the most dominant guys in the sport and there's CLEARLY a 60-80% chance of Silva winning it.

It's closer to 80% if it happens at 185 AND GSP just fats UP for it.

It's closer to the 60% if it happens at a catch weight of 176-179 because it MIGHT be so hard for Silva to cut he loses strength... but even that is not guaranteed either coz he's obviously freak of nature.

The other option is IF GSP decides to risk everything and builds another 10 lbs or so of lean functional muscle over 10 months or so (and that would be tough if we're talking lean useful strength) BUT as he said to Zahabi he wouldn't make 170 any more after that and based on the fact he's only 31 and clearly in incredible condition (prob the best condition any fighter has ever been in in my view - showing superior power AND cardio for 5 tough very active rounds!!) then he would be risking a further minimum 3-4 potentially big title defense fights, further lining his bank account and bringing huge sponsor money and ppv cuts to lose to Silva and be stuck up at MW to fight the likes of Stann and Bisping in a 'have-a-go-at-185' sort of scenario.

They're the options and it's a HUGE decision for GSP AND Silva so expect this fight to happen, if at all, at 178 lbs... no titles on the line. Bring it on I don't care about the titles I'd just love to see GSP even put on a good challenge, maybe even enough to warrant a rematch which would be awwwwwwesome!

GK1001

SDTimeout wrote: »

Diaz beats Silva if it somehow ever happened.

Nobody biting for you?

darced

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Mr. CooL ICE

darced wrote: »

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Indeed. Against Bonnar, he didn't look like his usual lean self. He had a small spare tyre

adamski8

LordChessington wrote: »

Indeed. Against Bonnar, he didn't look like his usual lean self. He had a small spare tyre

but that fight was taken at short notice

Xlami

I agree with belikenutellas post. Personally I don't care about any titles on the line and want to see the fight at a catch weight. Neither men at an advantage. If silva messes up his weight cut it'll be GSP taking him down at will as he trods along. And at 185 Georges could be in a no mans land. I think a catch weight. This fight is bigger than titles. Both fighters have proven they're the best ever at their division.


We get an epic hype and a fight everyone wants to see. Regardless of outcome GSP fights Hendricks Anderson fights Bisping or Weimann and try restore dominance in their division. Makes the most sense to me.

p to the e

I have to say I was very impressed with Cyrille Diabate against Chad Griggs. I remember thinking Griggs' brawling style would be difficult to handle at LHW but Diabate showed us why Dan Henderson routinely brings him in to work on his striking. To finish it with a choke was uncharacteristic of him aswell. Maybe a match up with James Te Huna could be a good war.

After a good start in the UFC, John Maguire has gone right down the pecking order after his loss to Matt Riddle. Riddle has been heard calling out Dan Hardy but Hardy stated he's not interested. Seems beggars can be choosers.

Congratulations to Sam Stout as he overtaken Frankie Edgar for most significant strikes thrown in UFC LW history.

Mr. Manager

People talking about a catchweight bout, what weight would you be suggesting?

Scar Tissue

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

People talking about a catchweight bout, what weight would you be suggesting?

Something where no fighter is at a distinct disdvantage, somewhere in the middle of the gap in weight classes between WW and MW.. 178lb or so?

Mr. Manager

Scar Tissue wrote: »

Something where no fighter is at a distinct disdvantage, somewhere in the middle of the gap in weight classes between WW and MW.. 178lb or so?

I was thinking similar but I'd feel that GSP would have an edge in that weight area (not saying he would beat Silva, just that he has an edge).

For Silva walking around at such a huge weight I think it's pretty unfair to ask him to fight anything below 185 - It wouldn't be such a large bulk for GSP to make.

Just my 2 cents (not very educated though )

Mellor

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

I was thinking similar but I'd feel that GSP would have an edge in that weight area (not saying he would beat Silva, just that he has an edge).

For Silva walking around at such a huge weight I think it's pretty unfair to ask him to fight anything below 185 - It wouldn't be such a large bulk for GSP to make.

Just my 2 cents (not very educated though )

Adding 7-8 lbs of muscle properly (and not simply cutting less) would be no easier for GSP than it would be for Silva to shave 7-8 by cutting a bit of fat and a bit of extra water.

Clive

Silva's camp claim he can make 170, so let him do that I say. If he wants to fight the greatest Mixed Martial Artist of all time (IMO), Silva should go to him rather than trying to disadvantage GSP with a catchweight. GSP made it very clear that he can't move up and down at will - if he moves up to say 177, he won't be able to return to 170 and won't be able to compete at 185.

Be like Nutella

quicker for Silva to come down a bit then GSP to build 7-8 lbs extra muscle.

178 makes most sense. By May Silva can work out how to do that intelligently and GSP can attempt to even up the odds more by adding functional strength and obviously training with Steven Seagal.

But Dana MAY offer them both so much money that this thing happens at 185 for the belt no matter what we say. A 185 fight makes more money for the UFC, I think.... wouldn't it? Like what's the business calculation on this fight? what makes more money? earns the fighters more money? Puts more bums on seats and buys more PPVs?

60,000 seats in a stadium at 60 bucks a pop plus say 1.4 million ppv buys at 50 bucks = ballpark $75-100 million plus other money streams.

Dana white is going to slide across a blank cheque and a pen to GSP and leave the room !

Fight-Logic says it SHOULD happen at 178 and I really hope it does coz GSP needs the fairest fight remotely possible to be in there with a good chance to pull off the upset and be the greatest fighter in the history of MMA bar nobody.

Business-Logic says it will happen at 185 lb for the belt. They'll paint it as GSP is the CHALLENGER, Silva is already the P4P so it's up to GSP to make weight not Silva! and there is some value in that argument.

Personally I put them as equal P4P best ever.

PauloConn

I don't think either will risk their respective legacy and the best way for that is at catchweight. Anyway, GSP will only go up if he puts on the muscle and if he does that then he won't make WW again so he's got it all to lose if it does go for 185. The up side is he would be the best P4P if he beats Silva on his own patch.
Anyway, Dana will go in with blank cheques, pay them what they want and they can retire after it and never worry about it again. I hope if happens for 185 title but not sure if GSP is ready to do that and make the May/June 2013 timeline.....

MrStuffins

One thing we haven’ spoken about is the possibility of other fights if GSP was to go up to MW and take Silva’s belt.

It opens up the whole division! Imagine how exciting the MW division would be again if GSP became champion. The likes of Bisping, Sonnen, Munoz, Belfort, Okami etc all vying for a shot at GSP.

I mean, there isn’t really much else left for GSP at WW. Nick Diaz perhaps (but that fight could take place at 185) and mini H-Bomb Hendricks are about it!

Be like Nutella

if anyone interested... just checked out bodybuilding sites and places like that and the consensus seems to be that he could add .25 to .50 lbs a week so that's 1-2 pounds a month so it seems doable by May but I know it's more complex than that. He's already carrying what seems like a lot of muscle for his 5'10'' (debatable) frame and he obviously is still very quick and has 5-round-war-level cardio but he may lose flexibility or lose cardio adding on that 8 lbs muscle mass at 5'10'' but again we're not talking an average human here and we are talking super advanced incredibly meticulous preparation, probably the most advanced of any fighter out there.

Be like Nutella

MrStuffins wrote: »

mini H-Bomb Hendricks are about it!

haha like it

00benski

A good 12 week cycle of 500mg of Test e and 20mg of Anavar a day with a good clean diet should sort him out, that would bring him right up to end of feb start of march well enough time to keep the atlethic commession guys away.:eek:

Forgive my spelling guys.

Be like Nutella

yeah fuk it gimme two drug fueled roid rage maniacs on fight day ; ).... a marvel war between hulk and juggernaut... or better yet... makem do 10 shots of aftershock just before they step in the cage and spin'em round on a gyroscope

PauloConn

Its totally possible for him to put it on safely for a catchweight fight but to move up to WW is adding another 15lb's, ensure flexibility and cardio aren't compromised too much (which they will be a little) and then beat The Spider.... seems like a lot for a guy who's 31 and fights twice a year max.
And then to have Bisbing going on and on about how he should be the champion. There's alot to take in.

Anyway, if he did that, then Anderson moves up 1 to LHW, Condit/Diaz/Hendricks scrap it out in a 3 way dance for the title, TLC rules and everyone's happy.

Mellor

Be like Nutella wrote: »

if anyone interested... just checked out bodybuilding sites and places like that and the consensus seems to be that he could add .25 to .50 lbs a week so that's 1-2 pounds a month so it seems doable by May but I know it's more complex than that.

That would be the case for natural bodybuilders, where mass is the only goal. The striking, grappling, cardio, conditioning he'd would also be doing may slow gains.

Be like Nutella

well the low end of .25 lb of muscle a week might be possible then, which would be 5-6 lbs of lean muscle by mid may which gets him to 176 so not bad. The .25-.5 lb of muscle per week was the low end of what I found out looking at bodybuilding forums and articles all over the place. Many other bodybuilders were saying 1-2 lbs per week but the general consensus was that that was too high a target if done totally naturally as GSP would do.
Even allowing him to get 4-5 lbs of lean muscle on and not have to cut so much down from 185ish to 170 like he has done for years would benefit his strength and power/weight of strikes, general well being. A fit/cut/strong 178 GSP is possible by end of May! 185 is not, and Silva won't be going to 170 no way, he has more weight in this weight negotiation. In the eyes of the UFC Silva is THE P4P and GSP is the challenger (even though ironically it's clearly Silva's camp pushing for the fight more than GSPs) BUT, as I say Dana's chequebook will decide this conundrum not fight-logic.

DrPhilG

Didn't Dana already say that if it happens it will be at catchweight?

I know someone made the point that it would sell more as a title fight, but I'm not sure. If it's a catchweight then neither of the dominant champions loses their belt so their legacy remains intact and they can continue to be marketed as the best in their division. If it happens at either weight (can't imagine Silva at 170 again) then one of the champions is dethroned.

DrPhilG

Found it...

At one point it sounded like Anderson wanted to go to 170 and take Georges' welterweight title. That was what he was talking at one point. Then it was 180 as a catchweight, because Georges doesn't want to go to 185, he's going to stay at '70. He said if I had to make the move to go to '85, I'd have to stay at '85. We figured that a 180-pound catchweight makes sense.

http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012/9/4/3292992/dana-white-anderson-silva-vs-georges-st-pierre-super-fight-likely-for