So, I'm back to getting a dog...

DeVore

Josh lately has changed character a little... just a little but its funny how you notice these things.

He's a lot more confident now but with it has come a touch of aggression with other dogs and a "cheekiness" with me too. ie: if its time to go for his walk, he'll bash the door of the kitchen in frustration. Lately he doesnt want to sit for his halti and will only do what I say when I bark it sometimes. Now, he's still very affectionate and gentle most of the times but when we are out walking he can be a bit aggressive with other dogs. Not all of them by any means but he's certainly not going to back off one bit if it comes to it.

I'm not worried about a whole lot it but its something that has developed. I should point out that Josh is not neutered so its been suggested that it might be from that, but I'm resistant to getting him neutered just now unless there is a good reason for it (which this wouldnt qualify as, just yet...)

Is this just to be expected from an adolescent male? He kinda does whatever he wants even though he will respond to me if I have a treat or if I leave or if he feels like it (like in the evening when he's very calm and gentle).
Its a sort of stubbornness mixed with... I guess you would call it "boldness"

LucyBliss

To me, it sounds like he's so comfortable with you and his new home, that he feels able to test boundaries. Like, now his personality development is kicking in, something that would have happened earlier if you'd had him as a pup.

I noticed it with mine as they matured. They went from oh so good to "yeah, I know what you want me to do but I'd rather not thanks" but when I insisted, then they obeyed. And by insist, I used treats to encourage the behaviour and also the old reliable cries of "Oh for the love of God, will you sit your ass down so I can put your lead on and we can get the hell out of here!!"

It's a confidence that is nice to see in a way because there's nothing worse than a dog who you feel is obeying you because he doesn't want to get hit. Just keep insisting on the behaviour you expect and maintain the boundaries. The problem sometimes can be that the dog is so smart, he's thinking "but my way is more fun for me". So consistency is everything at times like this.

DeVore

Haha yeah, I find now that if I stamp my foot and put on "the tone of voice" he will actually do what I say but otherwise its just like you say "I'd rather not thanks all the same".

He's definitely very headstrong though!

borderlinemeath

DeVore wrote: »

Josh lately has changed character a little... just a little but its funny how you notice these things.

He's a lot more confident now but with it has come a touch of aggression with other dogs and a "cheekiness" with me too. ie: if its time to go for his walk, he'll bash the door of the kitchen in frustration. Lately he doesnt want to sit for his halti and will only do what I say when I bark it sometimes.

Consistency is key. If he's bashing the door because he's seen the lead if he won't sit, then you go and sit down/take off your coat/walk away. Don't give in and don't put him on the lead or halti until he's sitting quietly. He's very smart, he'll associate that he must sit for it and sit he will. Eventually;).

Now, he's still very affectionate and gentle most of the times but when we are out walking he can be a bit aggressive with other dogs. Not all of them by any means but he's certainly not going to back off one bit if it comes to it.

Other male intact dogs?

I'm not worried about a whole lot it but its something that has developed. I should point out that Josh is not neutered so its been suggested that it might be from that, but I'm resistant to getting him neutered just now unless there is a good reason for it (which this wouldnt qualify as, just yet...)

TBH I would worry about any aggression. While you might have Josh on the leash another dog might not be and it may end badly.

Is this just to be expected from an adolescent male? He kinda does whatever he wants even though he will respond to me if I have a treat or if I leave or if he feels like it (like in the evening when he's very calm and gentle).
Its a sort of stubbornness mixed with... I guess you would call it "boldness"

He knows know what he can 'get away with' and is testing his bounderies. He's thinking, "I have this great life, but Dev sometimes wants me to do 'A' when I really want to do 'B'. Sometimes I get away with it and he laughs and shrugs his shoulders so I'll keep doing it my way" Consistency!

DeVore

Yeah, I'm quite strict about it (I'm every bit as stubborn as he is... in fact its scary how many traits we share in common, good and bad!).

He doesnt get his halti on unless he's sitting but he complains LOUDLY now and walks around in a huff. (he's not crazy about the halti because he knows he will be controlled by it, still loves to see it though).

I dunno if they were intact males. Some were males for sure but they were younger than him and he doesnt seem to bother younger dogs at all.

I'll keep the consistency up, thx!

borderlinemeath

DeVore wrote: »

Yeah, I'm quite strict about it (I'm every bit as stubborn as he is... in fact its scary how many traits we share in common, good and bad!).

He doesnt get his halti on unless he's sitting but he complains LOUDLY now and walks around in a huff. (he's not crazy about the halti because he knows he will be controlled by it, still loves to see it though).

I dunno if they were intact males. Some were males for sure but they were younger than him and he doesnt seem to bother younger dogs at all.

I'll keep the consistency up, thx!

I tried the front attachment harness on him here one of the days and it worked well, he couldn't get forward motion so after a few semi circles he stopped pulling. Might be worth investing in one. It was the sense-ible harness, dead easy to get on and off, over the head one click fastener. You can get them in Dog Training Ireland.

http://www.dogtrainingireland.ie/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=407

or have a look at this thread for other models boardsies recommend.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056876483&page=2

DeVore

Yep, ordered! The Halti is great and all but itsa touch too small and I am less than wild about the way it works. Additionally, he has learned how to get some serious power through it all the same! I'll give this a shot and see how it works with him...

On another issue (related to his occasional aggression with other dogs)... whats the etiquette/protocol to going to somewhere like say, Saint Annes Park Dog Pen with him? I mean its not like he's snapping at people or constantly agro, but at the same time I'm sure he'll find a dog to have a row with there. Does that sort of thing happen all the time? Should I go? Keep him on the lead (which seems to make him worse!) or just let them work it out for themselves?

Its not that he starts rows, but boy...he doesnt back off a bit so it tends to escalate!

Dubl07

The 'canny collar' is worth a look as well.

tk123

DeVore wrote: »

Yep, order! The Halti is great and all but itsa touch too small and I am less than wild about the way it works. Additionally, he has learned how to get some serious power through it all the same! I'll give this a shot and see how it works with him...

On another issue (related to his occasional aggression with other dogs)... whats the etiquette/protocol to going to somewhere like say, Saint Annes Park Dog Pen with him? I mean its not like he's snapping at people or constantly agro, but at the same time I'm sure he'll find a dog to have a row with there. Does that sort of thing happen all the time? Should I go? Keep him on the lead (which seems to make him worse!) or just let them work it out for themselves?

Its not that he starts rows, but boy...he doesnt back off a bit so it tends to escalate!

If you think he's going to have a row don't bring him in. It's not fair on him or the other dogs - one bad experience could affect a dog for years - my dog was snapped at as a young puppy and it's only now 3 years later that he's not afraid of that dog anymore..it made him afraid of ALL dogs and took a lot of work to build his confidence.
I was in St Anne's pen yesterday and a pushy dog came him - he lasted all of 2 mins before the owners had to take him out because he was annoying all of the other dogs trying to grab them by the neck.
The problem I've seen in our park's groups of dogs is that they seem to all tire easily of intact adolescent males who are trying to show off - they may try to discipline him if they think he's being too obnoxious. You might think he can hold his own but what if he takes on a much bigger dog and gets hurt?

borderlinemeath

tk123 wrote: »

If you think he's going to have a row don't bring him in. It's not fair on him or the other dogs - one bad experience could affect a dog for years - my dog was snapped at as a young puppy and it's only now 3 years later that he's not afraid of that dog anymore..it made him afraid of ALL dogs and took a lot of work to build his confidence.
I was in St Anne's pen yesterday and a pushy dog came him - he lasted all of 2 mins before the owners had to take him out because he was annoying all of the other dogs trying to grab them by the neck.
The problem I've seen in our park's groups of dogs is that they seem to all tire easily of intact adolescent males who are trying to show off - they may try to discipline him if they think he's being too obnoxious. You might think he can hold his own but what if he takes on a much bigger dog and gets hurt?

I have to agree. By all accounts the dog park in St Annes seems to be a small enough enclosure and trouble could start all too easily. For a start I wouldn't let him off the lead because if he went up to another dog and things kicked off you have no control. His aggression may be heightened when he's on the lead because he hasn't got the control and can't escape.

I know exactly what you're saying when you say he doesn't start the fight but he is antagonistic. He's basically walking around bubbling with testosterone and the other dogs are sensing it and reacting to it.

DeVore

Yeah, I dont want to cause hassle for anyone else and I want to keep him safe too. But at the same time, I need to socialise him (as I understand!) and the odd week with his dogsitting buddies probably isnt enough. I'm going to take him to classes on Tuesday but is that enough? How do you socialise an intact male? I dont want to have him doctored unless there is no choice but I am not sure I see it as "no choice" just yet... how do others handle this?

borderlinemeath

DeVore wrote: »

Yeah, I dont want to cause hassle for anyone else and I want to keep him safe too. But at the same time, I need to socialise him (as I understand!) and the odd week with his dogsitting buddies probably isnt enough. I'm going to take him to classes on Tuesday but is that enough? How do you socialise an intact male? I dont want to have him doctored unless there is no choice but I am not sure I see it as "no choice" just yet... how do others handle this?

But what is the reasoning behind keeping him intact?

As I see it for Josh the pros outweigh the cons. He's young enough that the aggression he comes out with isn't a learned behaviour... YET. But continued conflict with other dogs won't help him socialise.

He's not a large breed so is not at risk of osteosarcoma.

He has little or no recall and circus act acrobatic skills. If he gets the scent of a female in heat when he's not on the lead - he's gone. This includes scaling your garden wall! Plus if he does get into somebody elses garden at a female or in a park/beach you could be responsible for a litter of mini Josh puppies.

He won't mark territory when he goes visiting other places.

Cons. He won't have balls to lick.

Neutering won't change his personality, but it should make him less driven by his hormones.

tk123

If you had of recused a female would you be hesitating getting her spayed?

Anyhoos the big dog pen is actually a fair size - I didn't realize how big it was last week but it stretches back a good bit so I owe St Anne's an apology lol!
The railings are a bit crap though so you'd want to be confident of recall if your dog is an escape artist - they'll either squeeze thru the bars or jump over.

Layinghen

Devore I think you should seriously consider having Josh neutered. (This is something a lot of men seem to have a problem with the thought of:rolleyes:) Dont worry it is different for dogs they will only miss having somewhere to lick and won't feel their manhood as been diminished!

It could very well to calm him a bit and certainly I am sure you don't want a girl dog arriving at your door with tears in her eyes and a very angry Mum or Dad breaking the news to you that you are about to become a doggy Grandpa.

DeVore

Josh is an escapologist who would make Hoodini pack up and leave.

St Anne's only recently got a complete make-over so you do remember it correctly as small. Josh however, would see those new walls as hurdles.
He will come if I go to leave but otherwise he will be nosing around in everything and I just dont trust him not to get lost... (I'd say thats how I came to have him in the first place!)