Pregnant woman dies in UCHG after being refused a termination

blacklilly

What exactly are the pro choice protesting for?
What seems and I stress seems to have happened here is some form of negligence by the doctor/hospital.
The woman was entitled to have her pregnancy terminated as there was an imminent risk to her life.
This death should not have happened but that is obvious to everyone. People on the pro life side are just as angered with this tragedy.
Now all of a sudden pro choice are demanding abortion "rights". I honestly think its very bad judgement on their behalf to be using this instance to push their agenda as the full facts of the case are not known.
This woman is not dead because abortion is not permitted in Ireland. Seemingly cases like this occur on a weekly basis in the UK, where abortion is available.

poeticseraphim

bootybouncer wrote: »

Well CANADIAN, our Southpark friends have educated us about your lot

India have no place interfering in this

Yes they do...Savita was from there.....of course they do

Any country can..America..the UK Canada and they are welcome to I AN IRISH WOMAN WELCOME THEM TO....I AM GLAD

It is a human rights issue....

If it where abuse in Africa we would all be acting on it

This 'little islander' crap is old

Of course they should be outraged.

poeticseraphim

noinc wrote: »

This is a tragic story indeed but why are we getting people in India telling Ireland it must change its laws? It is bad enough we have France and Germany making decisions for us without India getting involved. The Facts are not yet known but I cannot think of anyone I know who would present at a hospital with a pain in her back and the first thought on their mind is to have the pregnancy terminated. I do not want to be disrespectful to this family or to India but why has there not been outcry in Ireland over Irish people who died after hospitals refused to admit people because they were 'not on call'

As usual the pro lifers and bleeding hearts have jumped on this story and people as far away as India, where they still **** in the street are calling us a backward country.

It is a backward country on this issue ..and on some other issues..like gay carriage so are other countries..

You must have some deep personal insecurity to take it so personally....or you you are actually TRYING to stir up little islander racist sentiment.

poeticseraphim

bootybouncer wrote: »

Well CANADIAN, our Southpark friends have educated us about your lot

India have no place interfering in this

Why are you trying to stir up racist nationalism?

Why are you taking it so personally?

And what is your point?

They are right Ireland is wrong....we should learn...:)

I never realized Irish people were so awfully clannish...I hate it:(


I don't like these type of people ....they think i we them something just because we are both Irish....

Most Irish people agree with the rest of the world and are GLAD it is being seen

STOP INSULTING OTHER COUNTRIES

poeticseraphim

1210m5g wrote: »

Coming from a country that has aborted an estimated 12 million babies in the last 30 years just for been female.

Sir you are a racist.


I dislike you....am suspending your Irishness as of now until you prove your humanity and kindness towards others.

Goodbye.

HeyThereDeliah

poeticseraphim wrote: »

It is a backward country on this issue ..and on some other issues..like gay carriage so are other countries..

You must have some deep personal insecurity to take it so personally....or you you are actually TRYING to stir up little islander racist sentiment.

Who said its a backward country on this issue? You think everyone in Ireland wants abortion?

poeticseraphim

blacklilly wrote: »

What exactly are the pro choice protesting for?
What seems and I stress seems to have happened here is some form of negligence by the doctor/hospital.
The woman was entitled to have her pregnancy terminated as there was an imminent risk to her life.
This death should not have happened but that is obvious to everyone. People on the pro life side are just as angered with this tragedy.
Now all of a sudden pro choice are demanding abortion "rights". I honestly think its very bad judgement on their behalf to be using this instance to push their agenda as the full facts of the case are not known.
This woman is not dead because abortion is not permitted in Ireland. Seemingly cases like this occur on a weekly basis in the UK, where abortion is available.

Well duh..we are protesting for pro-choice and we will not stop until we get it.

And yes before you start ..we do have an agenda ....we are pro-choice... that's our agenda .....:)


I have written to many TD's and senators stating that none in my family and many in my locality will give a vote to any politician who is not pro-choice.

poeticseraphim

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

Who said its a backward country on this issue? You think everyone in Ireland wants abortion?

Anti-choice is backward ..sorry it is....I am sure they think i am barbaric but hey that's life...you don't get on with everyone

Polls show the majority do want more liberal laws.

A RED C POLL in 2010 by the Irish examiner showed 60% of Irish people thought Abortion should be a woman's choice in the early trimester.


Ireland's laws are backward on this issue.

If the country is pro-life ..i can't live here.....and that society would not want me anyway.....we are just too different and foreign to each other

blacklilly

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Well duh..we are protesting for pro-choice and we will not stop until we get it.

And yes before you start ..we do have an agenda ....we are pro-choice... that's our agenda .....:)


I have written to many TD's and senators stating that none in my family and many in my locality will give a vote to any politician who is not pro-choice.

Hmmm calling me duh, good one.
Anyway, so do you agree that this death is not related to abortion being readily available or not?

Nodin

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

Who said its a backward country on this issue? You think everyone in Ireland wants abortion?

...would you get back to me on this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81801575&postcount=1853
thanks.

Flier

blacklilly wrote: »

What exactly are the pro choice protesting for?
What seems and I stress seems to have happened here is some form of negligence by the doctor/hospital.
The woman was entitled to have her pregnancy terminated as there was an imminent risk to her life.
This death should not have happened but that is obvious to everyone. People on the pro life side are just as angered with this tragedy.
Now all of a sudden pro choice are demanding abortion "rights". I honestly think its very bad judgement on their behalf to be using this instance to push their agenda as the full facts of the case are not known.
This woman is not dead because abortion is not permitted in Ireland. Seemingly cases like this occur on a weekly basis in the UK, where abortion is available.

Glad that you are so clear on this woman's entitlement to a termination when the medical profession are uneasy about the grey area surrounding the issue.
And where did you get the information on 'cases like this occuring on a weekly basis in the UK'. Clearly untrue. You can't just make stuff up and post it as fact.

HeyThereDeliah

Nodin wrote: »

...would you get back to me on this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81801575&postcount=1853
thanks.

Sorry I was not aware I was under any obligation to answer you or to tell you who I spoke to all day, do you want a list of every one I spoke to during the day?

I simply asked if anyone had heard it on the radio, I dunno why you are making such an issue out of it.

Intensive Care Bear

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Sir you are a racist.


I dislike you....am suspending your Irishness as of now until you prove your humanity and kindness towards others.

Goodbye.

Well thats the first time in my life i have ever been called a racist, which is funny and also quite ironic if you knew me, but hey its the internet so you can believe what ever you want:)

Nodin

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

Sorry I was not aware I was under any obligation to answer you or to tell you who I spoke to all day, do you want a list of every one I spoke to during the day?

I simply asked if anyone had heard it on the radio, I dunno why you are making such an issue out of it.

....O no reason. Well, actually its because it sounded a crock of shite and as a result I wanted to make sure it came from a legitamate source.

poeticseraphim

blacklilly wrote: »

Hmmm calling me duh, good one.
Anyway, so do you agree that this death is not related to abortion being readily available or not?

I did not call you duh..it is not even something you call people you say duh..like doh....you don't call someone duh or doh


Sorry I did not mean to sound rude. It was said casually...you are very sensitive...hey sometimes that's a good thing:)

As the facts stand now ...I think Savita's death was related to our lack of abortion on demand.

But it is early ..but Prof Eamon O'Dywer himself said she should have had a termination it was in the papers today. And he is pro-life.

I feel if we had abortion by choice well.. she requested one and would have received it.

But this is as it is now...what we know now ....it is early

But our choice to try and campaign for pro-choice does not change regardless.:)

That is our position and we will continue....possibly for years ....hopefully we will have action sooner...but there you go.:)

HeyThereDeliah

Nodin wrote: »

....O no reason. Well, actually its because it sounded a crock of shite and as a result I wanted to make sure it came from a legitamate source.

The person said they were listening to it on the radio yesterday evening, yes I asked what station, they had no idea. Probably like me constantly changing stations.
I have searched on line for it and listened to some replays of shows, i asked because I thought someone may have heard it.

I listened to the husbands interview for the first time actually and of course some of what he said and what's printed is not the same.

I dunno if its a crock of ****e or not.

MadYaker

What a thread. So many people arguing about something that none of them know anything about.

Stheno

poeticseraphim wrote: »

As the facts stand now ...I think Savita's death was related to our lack of abortion on demand.

I disagree I think her death is related to the lack of clarity in our laws as we have no legislation supporting the Supreme court that clearly define what is classed as a risk to the life of the mother, and it's left to doctors to figure out in somewhat stressful situations.

Noreen1

seb65 wrote: »

You're not making any sense. Do you think that the tissue from her cervix, uterus became infected and skipped the fetal tissue? Her cervix was fully dilated for three days for God's sake, providing a viable pathway for infection, while the fetal tissue was seeping out of her.

Every doctor EVERY doctor outside of Ireland in civilized countries, I would bet all the money in my pockets, would say termination is carried out in these circumstances.

Besides this, the woman was in excruciating pain - per her husband - losing blood and vomiting. Ya think her body being under this strain probably comprised her immune system and let the infection rage inside of her?

If there was no reason to remove the fetus, if it was best left to nature and had no consequence on her health, why did they remove as soon as the heartbeat stopped? They were waiting for the heartbeat to stop and left her in torment for three days. I think that gives a fair indication of what their main concern was.

And don't you, for a second, pontificate on what is honorable to this woman's memory. You did not even know her, you have suffered no loss. Her family will decide what is best to honor her memory and I believe they've been extremely clear on what it is that will be.

Foetal tissue? From a live foetus?
i presume you mean amniotic fluid?

Where did I say things were best left to nature? I have stated, more than once, that this issue is pertinent to every woman in the Country who is unfortunate enough to suffer a miscarriage.
I queried some very confident assertions that the infection originated with the foetus - despite the fact that, to date, there is absolutely no evidence to either support or reject this possibility.

We cannot help Savita any more.
We most certainly can - and should - examine the facts surrounding her death - before making assumptions about how we should react.
Unless people think that doing "something" immediately, is preferable to doing the right thing, albeit after a delay to determine what should be done.

Incidently, I believe the family have welcomed the investigation.

Madam_X

poeticseraphim wrote: »

STOP INSULTING OTHER COUNTRIES

I agree. And also stop blaming all of Ireland for this atrocity.

poeticseraphim

Madam_X wrote: »

I agree. And also stop blaming all of Ireland for this atrocity.

No:D...sorry I am in a really silly mood tonight...i just got in..it's not you

Off to the Cuckoo's nest i FLYYYYYYYYYY

Goodbye my prettysssss

obplayer

blacklilly wrote: »

What exactly are the pro choice protesting for?
Seemingly cases like this occur on a weekly basis in the UK, where abortion is available.

Evidence please? Without that then what the pro choice are protesting against is people like you imposing their views on the rest of Ireland On the basis of no rational evidence.

blacklilly

poeticseraphim wrote: »

I did not call you duh..it is not even something you call people you say duh..like doh....you don't call someone duh or doh


Sorry I did not mean to sound rude. It was said casually...you are very sensitive...hey sometimes that's a good thing:)

As the facts stand now ...I think Savita's death was related to our lack of abortion on demand.

But it is early ..but Prof Eamon O'Dywer himself said she should have had a termination it was in the papers today. And he is pro-life.

I feel if we had abortion by choice well.. she requested one and would have received it.

But this is as it is now...what we know now ....it is early

But our choice to try and campaign for pro-choice does not change regardless.:)

That is our position and we will continue....possibly for years ....hopefully we will have action sooner...but there you go.:)

Well you are coming across as rude but don't worry I'm not so sensitive to be hurt by something someone directs to me over an internet forum but it is possible to get your opinion across in a non aggressive way, you seem to have the intellect to do so.
You have your opinions and I' m certainly not going to change them and vise versa.

For that reason I am stepping out of this as it comprises of people regurgitating the same facts/opinions in different manners.

Good night

opinionated3

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Well duh..we are protesting for pro-choice and we will not stop until we get it.

And yes before you start ..we do have an agenda ....we are pro-choice... that's our agenda .....:)


I have written to many TD's and senators stating that none in my family and many in my locality will give a vote to any politician who is not pro-choice.


Hmmmm..pro murder...that's nice to know. Let us know which politicians vote in favour of that.

seb65

Noreen1 wrote: »

Unless people think that doing "something" immediately, is preferable to doing the right thing, albeit after a delay to determine what should be done.

Incidently, I believe the family have welcomed the investigation.

Immediately? As in 20 years later immediately? Imagine if they'd acted even 19 years later.....

Pherekydes

opinionated3 wrote: »

Hmmmm..pro murder...that's nice to know. Let us know which politicians vote in favour of that.

Being pro-choice is not being pro-murder.

seb65

Pherekydes wrote: »

Being pro-choice is not being pro-murder.

Don't even bother trying to reason with them, it's not worth it.

HeyThereDeliah

The Life Institute has discovered that abortion campaigners had been given prior knowledge of the Savita Halappanavar case, and that they planned to use it to proceed with a campaign to have abortion legalised in Ireland.



http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-news/email-leak-reveals-abortion-campaigners-had-prior-knowledge-of-savita-halappanavar-case/

seven_eleven

I have spoken to a wide range of Americans, Europeans, and people from ever further online in regards to this matter. They all seem disgusted and cant understand why we're so backwards in regards to this. I genuinly think "pro-lifers" are mentally incapable of understanding this. Ill probably get banned if I say anymore.

Am I the only one who thinks nothing will be done to change this? This country just never learns.

Madam_X

seb65 wrote: »

Don't even bother trying to reason with them, it's not worth it.

He's supportive of Israeli military murders of Palestinian children though - right-wingers and their inability to be consistent are funny.

I'm sure any enlightened politician with integrity will approve. The problem though is that Irish politics is littered with thick-as-sh1t numbskulls. :-/

LizT

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

The Life Institute has discovered that abortion campaigners had been given prior knowledge of the Savita Halappanavar case, and that they planned to use it to proceed with a campaign to have abortion legalised in Ireland.

http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-newsemail-leak-reveals-abortion-campaigners-had-prior-knowledge-of-savita-halappanavar-case/

That's such an impartial source :rolleyes:

Spokeswoman for the Institute, Niamh Uí Bhriain, said that they had a copy of an email conversation which revealed that abortion advocates knew about the death of Ms Halappanavar, which she said they "most distastefully described as a 'major news story'."

How is distasteful to describe it as a news story? It's the lead story on every Irish news programme, it's been on the cover of every Irish paper...

To be clear, I don't think that Savita's death should be used to push a pro choice agenda, even though I myself am 100% pro choice. But the whole episode is being used by both sides to push their agendas, I don't like it.

Noreen1

Flier wrote: »

Noreen, are you a doctor? If you are, please tell me where you have trained/are working so I can avoid. If not:



I actually have nothing to say in response to this as it is a clearly ridiculous analogy, and the 'if....then..' you propose is not based on any background knowledge.

Personal attacks?
Do explain what is medically incorrect in what I have stated.

Flier wrote: »

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that best practice in cases such as this one is to offer a termination.

I refuse to acknowledge that?
News to me!
For the record. I believe that abortion is acceptable to save a mothers life.
Where I have issues, is when people make sweeping statements that the foetus was the cause of the infection.
Or that induction was the perfect solution.
Since she was already dilated, inducing (starting) labour would have been pretty pointless, would it not?

Then there's the issue of allegations of medical incompetence.
That's an allegation that I personally wouldn't make, unless I had proof.
Since the full facts of the case are not known, that proof is not available.

Flier wrote: »

:The only thing that you can state definitively is that you weren't given antibiotics. Your circumstances were unique, and you can have no idea what happened to everybody else.




You have no idea what you would have done if you were the doctor, since you would be speaking with years of training and experience to draw from, which clearly you have not.

Actually, I can definitively state that there is nothing unique about a prolonged miscarriage. They're not that uncommon. Contrary to some sweeping statements on this thread, a womans cervix isn't a trapdoor that snaps open and shut.
What is uncommon, however, is for a woman to be fully dilated, and not deliver within a couple of hours, (after which the cervix will slowly close.)

Again. Explain how you formed the opinion that a doctor, who can see that a woman is either fully or partially dilated, would choose to induce labour immediately after a woman presents at the hospital, where there is no evidence, at that time, of further complications? Bearing in mind that her labour had already commenced?
Note that I did not say that there should have been no intervention at any point. Merely that her initial request for induction would have caused her a lot of pain - which would have been pointless had the miscarriage progressed normally.

I have deliberately refrained from commenting on when intervention should have taken place.
I believe the enquiry will determine that.

opinionated3

Madam_X wrote: »

He's supportive of Israeli military murders of Palestinian children though - right-wingers and their inability to be consistent are funny.

I'm sure any enlightened politician with integrity will approve. The problem though is that Irish politics is littered with thick-as-sh1t numbskulls. :-/

Israeli murders? And what would you call Hamas? Nice blokes who just happen to park their rocket launchers beside hospitals? Gimme a break. Sick to the teeth of Irish people jumping on board any issue which happens to be 'cool'....anti American, anti Israeli, anti catholicism. By the way i am not right wing. Maybe centre right but not right wing. definitely not a hippie leftie that's for sure

Madam_X

Fail to see where I suggested Hamas weren't murderous thugs. Doesn't justify indiscriminate, disproportionate killings of Palestinian children. Can't see what's "cool" about that cause - you're not a mind-reader.

Sorry for assuming you're right-wing but you did say abortion is murder, which no moderate person would ever say. Having left-leaning views doesn't make one a hippy either.

seb65

Noreen1 wrote: »

Personal attacks?
Do explain what is medically incorrect in what I have stated.







I refuse to acknowledge that?
News to me!
For the record. I believe that abortion is acceptable to save a mothers life.
Where I have issues, is when people make sweeping statements that the foetus was the cause of the infection.
Or that induction was the perfect solution.
Since she was already dilated, inducing (starting) labour would have been pretty pointless, would it not?

Then there's the issue of allegations of medical incompetence.
That's an allegation that I personally wouldn't make, unless I had proof.
Since the full facts of the case are not known, that proof is not available.




Actually, I can definitively state that there is nothing unique about a prolonged miscarriage. They're not that uncommon. Contrary to some sweeping statements on this thread, a womans cervix isn't a trapdoor that snaps open and shut.
What is uncommon, however, is for a woman to be fully dilated, and not deliver within a couple of hours, (after which the cervix will slowly close.)

Again. Explain how you formed the opinion that a doctor, who can see that a woman is either fully or partially dilated, would choose to induce labour immediately after a woman presents at the hospital, where there is no evidence, at that time, of further complications? Bearing in mind that her labour had already commenced?
Note that I did not say that there should have been no intervention at any point. Merely that her initial request for induction would have caused her a lot of pain - which would have been pointless had the miscarriage progressed normally.

I have deliberately refrained from commenting on when intervention should have taken place.
I believe the enquiry will determine that.

Glad to see you would agree with termination where the mother's life is in danger. How very kind of you.

She asked the pregnancy be terminated. Is an abortion not different from an induction?

seb65

opinionated3 wrote: »

Israeli murders? And what would you call Hamas? Nice blokes who just happen to park their rocket launchers beside hospitals? Gimme a break. Sick to the teeth of Irish people jumping on board any issue which happens to be 'cool'....anti American, anti Israeli, anti catholicism. By the way i am not right wing. Maybe centre right but not right wing. definitely not a hippie leftie that's for sure

So, it's okay to kill little Palestinian children....as long as they're out of the womb?

MagicSean

seb65 wrote: »

So, it's okay to kill little Palestinian children....as long as they're out of the womb?

Don't forget to bring up the nazis. There should be a gaza equivalent of Godwins Law.

mathproblem

Will the investigation into this woman's tragic death consider whether the recent campaign by the pro-life side affected the medical staff's decision making process in this case?

It is not unreasonable to ask whether the billboarding campaign was backed up by direct reach out to doctors to find some who may be sympathetic to their cause and to embolden them to take radical action(or inaction in this case). Questions should also be asked of whether any involvement from religious organisations or personnel, ward sisters etc came in to play.

A lot of people are saying that we should wait and see before jumping to conclusions. Personally I have decided to believe the word of the husband, I don't see he has any reason to lie & I have very little faith in the trustworthiness of any Irish authority structure to be fair & impartial despite the appointment of an outsider.

The one thing that always effects the outcome of any inquiry is always it's terms of reference. What exactly is being investigated at this point, how and by who? Obviously the priority is to establish the facts as they happened going by hospital records, medication dispensed & accounts of those present(in as far as they can be taken as truth), but I would like to see a broader inquiry that widens it's terms in case any extenuating factors influenced the events that took place on that ward.



I remain very pessimistic about the ability of Irish society to succeed in adequately navigating this impasse which has loomed on the horizon for most of my life. Any society that routinely sends away the entirety of its younger generation remains perpetually unbalanced to the conservative side, as is evident by the fact that we have rotated between two essentially centre-right governments since the very foundation of the state.

We are like a driver who has his two hands taped to the steering wheel instead of a free left and free right in the 10+2 position, unable to nimbly guide around any obstacles in the road. It is not unreasonable to assume that if we rotated between left & right governments like most mature democracies that legislation to cover this matter would have been opened by the left side & then refined by the right in turn.

Would Sinn Fein & the ULA/Socialists not join together in one Dail grouping so that at least the first voice of opposition in our parliament would be from a different point of view from the governing party and not simply its ugly twin.

Every time I hear an Rte or Newstalk news piece on any government matter & then the first counter mentioned is a Fianna Fail quote that contains no ideological difference whatsoever from the former but is simply an angry barb from a bitter brother I almost cry from the realisation that we are going nowhere, absolutely nowhere.

Ashamed to be Irish indeed, in fact the only true Irish that can hold their heads up high are the ones so often derided in the home media as the 'plastic paddies', the ones who left.

Madam_X

Speak for yourself. I'll not feel shame ta. Can feel horror at this case and try to effect change without self flagellating coming into it.

galwayrush

I wish fanatics from both sides would **** off. Common sense should prevail.

Noreen1

seb65 wrote: »

Glad to see you would agree with termination where the mother's life is in danger. How very kind of you.

She asked the pregnancy be terminated. Is an abortion not different from an induction?

Dear me! I'm delighted to see that you regard my opinion as a kindness.:rolleyes:

Of course an abortion is different from an induction.
However, the post I responded to initially said she requested an induction very soon after she first presented at the hospital.
Which would have been A: Pointless, and B: Extremely painful, especially because she was "prima", and her cervical muscles would have been in optimum condition.
Frankly, I have trouble believing that any doctor, unless he/she was a complete sadist, would agree to induction in that scenario.

Intervention to expedite labour, and when/if it should have occurred are the subject of an enquiry.
And by "if" it should have occurred, I mean the facts pertaining to risk management of Savitas life, when it became evident that she had an infection, and when sepsis became an issue.

seb65

Noreen1 wrote: »

Dear me! I'm delighted to see that you regard my opinion as a kindness.:rolleyes:

Of course an abortion is different from an induction.
However, the post I responded to initially said she requested an induction very soon after she first presented at the hospital.
Which would have been A: Pointless, and B: Extremely painful, especially because she was "prima", and her cervical muscles would have been in optimum condition.
Frankly, I have trouble believing that any doctor, unless he/she was a complete sadist, would agree to induction in that scenario.

Intervention to expedite labour, and when/if it should have occurred are the subject of an enquiry.
And by "if" it should have occurred, I mean the facts pertaining to risk management of Savitas life, when it became evident that she had an infection, and when sepsis became an issue.

Well since she asked for a termination, going on about why an induction wouldn't have been done is quite moot.

I believe the subject of the inquiry is whether the pregnancy should have been terminated, not labour induced. Labour being induced or even c-sections is what some anti-woman proponents on here are suggesting should have been done - simply as a means of avoiding an abortion - to end the miscarriage process. You're right, only sadists would suggest such things.

MadYaker

I assume this thread has been Godwinned already?

hyperborean

gob****s

mathproblem

Madam_X wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

I did & I will. It is my opinion that collectively we killed that woman by inability to deal with something that has been staring us in the face.

If you had a hole on your land that you had been meaning to cover it for twenty years lest some child fall in and die but were too lazy to get around to it, should you not feel some type of remorse when the inevitable happens.

Personally I believe I have a a centrist & pragmatic opinion in this area & actually I feel it is my ilk who are most to blame here. Pro-life & pro-choice people are hardened in their camps playing a game of tug of war that balances itself out & goes nowhere. It is the rest of us who were happy to carry on with the status quo, safe in the knowledge that any woman that wants/needs it enough can just go to England. Preferring to debate economics, welfare, education and a whole laundry list of other issues and never forcing lawmakers to face this issue head on & come up with something that defines the line as set out in supreme court decisions.

Well this woman couldn't make it to England, couldn't make it anywhere, imprisoned for three days in pure agony in an Irish legal grey area, suffering the worst imaginable death. I'm not saying anyone else should feel shame or embarrassment or guilt or anything else, but I reserve the right to feel them myself. After all we have these feelings so as to alter our behavior I'd like to think after this case i wont just sit quietly by again.

TD's get letters and e-mails all the time apparently from hardcore elements of both sides of the debate, it's a pity they didn't get a few more from the silent moderate majority to simply get it done already.

Nodin

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

The person said they were listening to it on the radio yesterday evening, yes I asked what station, they had no idea. Probably like me constantly changing stations.
I have searched on line for it and listened to some replays of shows, i asked because I thought someone may have heard it.

I listened to the husbands interview for the first time actually and of course some of what he said and what's printed is not the same.

I dunno if its a crock of ****e or not.

You don't know whether its true or not, yet posted a second hand account of an unknown source....very classy.

Nodin

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

The Life Institute has discovered that abortion campaigners had been given prior knowledge of the Savita Halappanavar case, and that they planned to use it to proceed with a campaign to have abortion legalised in Ireland.



http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-news/email-leak-reveals-abortion-campaigners-had-prior-knowledge-of-savita-halappanavar-case/

There's another crowd on the net that have proof of lizard people. Such an amazing world we live in....

mikom

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

The Life Institute has discovered that abortion campaigners had been given prior knowledge of the Savita Halappanavar case, and that they planned to use it to proceed with a campaign to have abortion legalised in Ireland.



http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/latest-news/email-leak-reveals-abortion-campaigners-had-prior-knowledge-of-savita-halappanavar-case/

Pray let's have a look at the life institute......... http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/current-projects/family-matters/

Madam_X

Someone with a hole in their land like you describe is far more culpable than we are for this incident based on hindsight. Why the need to blame people who are not to blame?
Would you blame the population of a different country for an atrocious incident caused by inept government, a powerful lobby the govt is afraid of, and the legacy of a borderline theocratic past?
And to say those Irish who left here are the only ones who can hold up their heads without shame is... unfair to say the least. By your logic wouldn't they also be responsible for not sticking around to change things? Sick of this "enlightened, progressive" notion that we're all to blame. We're not - blaming those not responsible is the kind of thinking that leads to racism.

LizT

Nodin wrote: »

There's another crowd on the net that have proof of lizard people. Such an amazing world we live in....

mikom wrote: »

Pray let's have a look at the life institute......... http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/current-projects/family-matters/

Not to mention this old chestnut

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVGvUF217us

ABORTION IS NOT EVER MEDICALLY NECESSARY TO SAVE A MOTHER'S LIFE.
Read the evidence, see what the experts say, and find out more by watching the video and checking out the information below.

Protect mothers and babies - and let's have ZERO tolerance on misinforming women.

Yep, I'll really consider what they have to say about Savita's case :rolleyes: