Electric Bill increased 15 fold in 16 days

brightspark

Kat1170 wrote: »

Surely if OP's bill has been underestimated a number of times and is now facing a huge bill, everyone else in the block would be in the same situation* given that all the meters seem to be in the same room and should be read at the same time.

Try asking some of the other tenants if they are having similar problems.

Personally, I'd go with a misreading of the meter.


*presuming similar usage.

I agree the meter was misread...16 days ago.

Unfortunately for the OP the current meter reading is what it is and he is responsible for the usage since whenever it was previous read accurately.

Instead of a 250 Euro refund he probably owed money, (not sure when the OP last paid a bill but i'm guessing he didn't pay for the last couple of months that were no doubt included in that refund as a credit to him instead of a debit)
But now he probably owes not just the electricity used since then, but also the credited and uncharged amounts.

I don't know who was to blame for the misreading (if that is what happened), but maybe if it was the ESB who read it, then he could argue to be allowed to pay it back over several months, instead of in the next bill?

But if he or the landlord read it 16 days ago, it might be harder to negotiate a payment plan.

A warning for everyone not to rely on estimated bills, but to check your meter.

Misterleroy

I see the points, but the landlords account was closed with the meter reading he provided on 16th of October. This was 28464. This reading closed his account 250 euro in credit due to estimates before being over and paid for in full. Since then, the meter has gone up 569. ESB are saying the charges for the past 16/17 days are ~€850. (I don't know what happens to the days in between his closure on 16th, and the 16/17 days ESB have cited on the phone (28th to present day))

I'm no mathematician, but :eek:

brightspark wrote: »

I don't know who was to blame for the misreading (if that is what happened), but maybe if it was the ESB who read it, then he could argue to be allowed to pay it back over several months, instead of in the next bill?

But if he or the landlord read it 16 days ago, it might be harder to negotiate a payment plan.

A warning for everyone not to rely on estimated bills, but to check your meter.

I've already been offered a payment plan, but until the issue is resolved, and I can find out wtf is going on, I wont be giving them any payment details, and they have given me 7 or so days to find the cause before they'll ask for some billing details.

brightspark

Misterleroy wrote: »

I see the points, but the landlords account was closed with the meter reading he provided on 16th of October. This was 28464. This reading closed his account 250 euro in credit due to estimates before being over and paid for in full. Since then, the meter has gone up 569. ESB are saying the charges for the past 16/17 days are ~€850. (I don't know what happens to the days in between his closure on 16th, and the 16/17 days ESB have cited on the phone (28th to present day))

I'm no mathematician, but :eek:



I've already been offered a payment plan, but until the issue is resolved, and I can find out wtf is going on, I wont be giving them any payment details, and they have given me 7 or so days to find the cause before they'll ask for some billing details.

That is something, If you can prove they accepted the reading of 28464 closing the accoung in credit then it was a simple mis reading when they initiated your account, get them to check his closing reading against your opening reading.

I had thought that the misreading was what lead to the account being in credit, but if it was in credit at 28464 and they acknowledge it, then you should only owe for units since then which is only what you have had used since (about 110 Euro) plus whatever else you use before the next bill.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

That is something, If you can prove they accepted the reading of 28464 closing the accoung in credit then it was a simple mis reading when they initiated your account, get them to check his closing reading against your opening reading.

I had thought that the misreading was what lead to the account being in credit, but if it was in credit at 28464 and they acknowledge it, then you should only owe for units since then which is only what you have had used since (about 110 Euro) plus whatever else you use before the next bill.

My thoughts exactly. I really cannot work out the math they're using.

EI: Una

Misterleroy wrote: »

Mains breaker in the apartment. I dare not touch something in the meter room. I'd only blow something up.



I'm sure if they ask, they'll tell me. Will revert back (tomorrow I guess, since they just shut up shop)

Hi folks,

Just advising to avoid any confusion: we are on Boards.ie between 8am and 6pm Monday to Friday but our customer service lines are open between 8am and 8pm Monday to Saturday.

Regards,
Una

Chris_5339762

I wonder if some of the amount owing is a deposit for being a new customer?

moonshadow

I would say its a deposit for new customer also, normally €400 if i remember correctly.

brightspark

moonshadow wrote: »

I would say its a deposit for new customer also, normally €400 if i remember correctly.

if that was the case the lady on the phone wouldn't have extrapolated to over 4000 euro for the billing period, also I think it only applies to non direct customers.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

if that was the case the lady on the phone wouldn't have extrapolated to over 4000 euro for the billing period, also I think it only applies to non direct customers.

I was calling to set up DD which removes the need for the Deposit.

The sum in question is without the deposit included.

I've got the years worth of bills here now, and I'm on the phone to ESB again to try and get a timeline from them.

Christmas is cancelled, kids

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

if that was the case the lady on the phone wouldn't have extrapolated to over 4000 euro for the billing period, also I think it only applies to non direct customers.

Mr Spark, you seem a resourceful chap with these numbers.

15th Oct 2011 the meter read

21004 (actual)

15th Nov 2012 the meter reads

29044 (actual)

As a ball park figure, how much would that cost? Or is this an impossible calculation

brightspark

Misterleroy wrote: »

Mr Spark, you seem a resourceful chap with these numbers.

15th Oct 2011 the meter read

21004 (actual)

15th Nov 2012 the meter reads

29044 (actual)

As a ball park figure, how much would that cost? Or is this an impossible calculation

8040 units @ 19.28 cent is about 1550 euro, you will need to add another 130 ish standing charge and 30 ish public service, levy per annum. actual values are on the electric ireland site. can't get them now as I'm on mobile.

brightspark

don't know if there was a price increase during that period, I can check later.

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

8040 units @ 19.28 cent is about 1550 euro, you will need to add another 130 ish standing charge and 30 ish public service, levy per annum. actual values are on the electric ireland site. can't get them now as I'm on mobile.

That makes sense looking over my finances.

Here's our rundown on paper so far:



The customer reading (24742) is what strikes me as the fault here?

_Puma_

That definitely looks like a misread reading. Something similar happened me when closing my account in our previous apartment. Got the landlord to take a reading for me after we had left the place, rang up the ESB with the reading and they quoted me ~1000 euro. Immediately rang the landlord and turns out he misread a digit. Id like to think it was just a simple mistake but the cynic in me thinks they were chancing their arm getting me to pay extra so they would have a smaller bill for the next reading. I realise your case is slightly different but id get in touch with the ESB with those readings you have and highlight the 2472 reading.

seagull

I'd hazard a guess at a switched digit, and that it should be 27442. It's not like the meter can start running backwards. Either that, or the wrong meter was read.

Misterleroy

seagull wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess at a switched digit, and that it should be 27442. It's not like the meter can start running backwards. Either that, or the wrong meter was read.

Dayum, that sounds about right.

I'm on hold to them now, will raise that as a possibility. The woman agrees something is totally wrong here and unless time travel exists, something is amiss.

Misterleroy

So the lady on the phone cannot tell me exactly wtf is going on, because I'm the new Account holder (even though I've been here a year, Data Protection etc, I'm cool with that).

So the 250 credit to my Landlord was turned in to a 500 euro bill (I have those bills right here).. they now say that a correction has been made to that bill, and a newly revised credit is on its way to my landlord. Now, they cannot tell me what the new credit is, but whatever it is, I can remove that from the current total.

I'm still sure that something is fugged up here, but anything I can do to negate the impact of such a horrilbe bill will be welcome.

Now for the waiting game..

rameire

Brightspark

Fair play to you.

brightspark

Your usage seems fairly consistant

(Disregarded estimates as they are not relevant)

from 15/10/11 to 21/02/12 you used 2763 units an average of 21.42 per day
from 21/02/12 to 17/10/12 you used 4697 units an average of 19.65 per day
from 17/10/12 to 14/11/12 you used 566 units an average of 20.21 per day


Your actual usage hasn't really changed much, so much for the theories of theft and mysterious faults.

at least you don't need to worry about paying nearly 4000 Euro!

Do you have a list of consumed units for each bill?

The reading for 15th of August should have been the same as the 14th?

MOH

seagull wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess at a switched digit, and that it should be 27442. It's not like the meter can start running backwards. Either that, or the wrong meter was read.

The previous 4 readings are estimates though, so there's no guarantee the Aug 14 reading is correct. But the Aug 15 reading is definitely way too close to the last actual reading of 6 months beforehand.

Although it does seem a bit weird that the closing reading for Aug 14 is an estimate, and the opening reading for the next period is the customer reading? Surely these should be the same?

Is there any chance someone rang in a reading for a different account which somehow ended up applied to this one?

Misterleroy

brightspark wrote: »

Do you have a list of consumed units for each bill?

The reading for 15th of August should have been the same as the 14th?

I can get them, but aren't they estimated also?

The 14th was an estimate, 15th is listed as a customer submission, but they told me on the phone it was an actual... I think.. now I'm confused again... yes.. They said the one listed "C" was an actual reading by them. Makes no sense.

cast_iron

There was a mistake in the customer reading on Aug 15th. That cannot be disputed as the meter is almost always correct. And it should be the same as the Aug 16th reading, which appears to be in line with your usage.

Quite how the ESB managed to close the account in October when almost 4000 units were supposed to have been used since the last billing date, and yet apply a credit, I'm not sure. Either way, that was also a mistake. (Assuming your listing of the reading on the sheet of paper is fully correct)

You could play hard ball with ESB and claim you are only liable for the usage form 17th October till now (the time it's in your name). Anything before that is in a different person's name, and nothing to do with you. The fact that 17th Oct reading was actual would back you up on this.

wmpdd3

^^^This would be interesting as the ESB are accepting that a change of account has taken place, but it could be difficult seeing as this is your landlord!

Pacing Mule

It's clear to me what has happened.

The customer reading on the 15th Aug is definitely wrong.

There were a few knock on effects of this.

The credit of €250 issued at the time should not have been. In fact there should have been a balance owed to ESB at that point as the true reading would have been higher than the 26927 estimate on 14th aug (especially if the digits were switched as speculated and the actual reading was 27442) There had been a 6 month series of estimated readings in the run up to that time each of them underestimating the usage. By the looks of things the OP was a few hundred euro in arrears and not due a credit.

So when the OP was on the phone changing address either he gave the current reading OR the system had just been updated with an actual reading (I'm not 100% clear on this from the posts but I suspect there had been a reading taken by ESB) Either way the operator was able to say that usage was astronomical based on the wrong previous and correct current readings.

Again it's not clear if a refund was issued by cheque or a credit put on the account but the operator at the time was most likely referring to the actual bill / invoice due and not the cash balance due when discussing the usage. That invoices "usage" would have been made up of, the "usage" from the credit that shouldn't have been issued, the usage of the arrears that should have been flagged at that wrong reading and then the actual usage in the time since. As far as the operator was concerned all 3 were showing as used in the last couple of weeks hence the assumption something was wrong in the premises.

daheff

well seems to me that you are only liable to ESB for the bill from the time its in your name. You might be liable to the landlord though (check your lease agreement) for any outstanding bills on the apartment.

Either way, as people have said the issue seems to be the customer reading of 24742 in august.

Menas

daheff wrote: »

well seems to me that you are only liable to ESB for the bill from the time its in your name. You might be liable to the landlord though (check your lease agreement) for any outstanding bills on the apartment.

Either way, as people have said the issue seems to be the customer reading of 24742 in august.

The landlord could argue that as the OP has been paying him the cost of the bills prior to the change over that he was 'accepting' liability for the bills and his performance thus implied a contract - non written. Performance in the past can be construed to be a non-written contract.
So not sure the OP could get away with that. But some of the legal heads on here may give a different view!

Misterleroy

Haha, I have no plans on pulling a fast one on my landlord.

He's a lovely bloke with a business to run, day by day his stubble gets more beardy as the companies he deals with go in to administration, and he relies more and more on his tenants to keep his head above water.

He's been good by me, and I'll be good by him. no plans on changing that.

So, today we may be close to resolution..

ESB performed some recalc, and today my acc stands at €722 owed.

The Credit to my landlord stands at €205.

My account then comes to €517. These are seemingly for 3 months. Due to the way in which my landlord (I just discovered) backdated everything, so that the most recent bills they received did not need to be paid by him, but by me. It's a cheeky move on his part, but I think he just wanted to not have to send out more money from his side, and let me cover it. I was due to pay him the last set of bills any time now. These bills have just been pushed over to me. I was expecting to pay off a bill to him anyhow, aside form all this.

In short, the last bill he had has been pushed over to me due to how he has backdated the transfer of account ownership. So he gets credit (due to me) and I get the last bill moved over to my account, as well as usage since then added on, totalling the €722 (-205).

The erroneous reading added to the confusion, so ESB took the reading as Gospel, and as such considered my usage to have exploded this last couple of weeks, and set me in to panic mode, bringing in electricians and the like. They will be getting a strongly worded email about inciting such panic instead of just looking at the "whos" "whats" and "Whys".

Everything seems to be coming together now... I think.

The landlord isn't entirely innocent in all of this, and by holding back information (not maliciously, but because he's a little dim). I'd not been told a bill was due, and he just closed his account without telling me that. That bill was pushed forward to my account (which is fine), and the credit goes to him.

He's requested the credit be moved to me, bringing my bill down, and that bill actually covers more than 16 days, more like 90 days :P

RangeR

Talk to ESB. They will set you up with a payment plan so it doesn't have to all be paid this bill. They are very good in that regard, once you maintain communication.

fasttalkerchat

Sounds like a faulty meter... anyway its not your fault but they may try to charge you so I would cancel the direct debit just in case.

brightspark

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Sounds like a faulty meter... anyway its not your fault but they may try to charge you so I would cancel the direct debit just in case.

what makes you think the meter is faulty?

20 units a day may be high for some, but it's not excessively high. I'd estimate the immersion is using about half of that.