PAYE workers facing €3,000 tax hit after Budget

shedweller

The ***** can take the €3k. I'll just have to not spend it somewhere else. Wasn't i supposed to stimulate the economy with it? I'm sure i heard that somewhere?

sparksfly

frankosw wrote: »

Can you explain why,exactly?

Its funny that the people who leant the country the money are quite happy with the way the deal is progressing,as are the Govt but maybe you can explain how you know better?

Of course they are happy, they are not the ones paying for it.

sparksfly

frankosw wrote: »

And your point is what?

The way i see it you're calling for paycuts because there's a lot of people on the dole that need to be paid...why not create jobs instead,a good idea is to lift the moratorium on PS recruitment that was brought in as part of a hare-brained scheme to "save money".

Unreal. "Create" more jobs in the PS to reduce dole. In other words pay them even more money.
The only jobs worth creating are in the private sector, the only sector that generates all the wealth and actually pays all the bills.

sarumite

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Will there be an allowance for that?

Well, it isn't actually a policy at the moment, so I can't answer whether there will be an allowance or not. Surely that would be up to the negotiators of any new agreement between employers and employees.

RobbieTheRobber

sarumite wrote: »

Well, it isn't actually a policy at the moment, so I can't answer whether there will be an allowance or not. Surely that would be up to the negotiators of any new agreement between employers and employees.

Surely if I get an allowance for eating my lunch at my desk I'll get an allowance for this though right?

sarumite

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Surely if I get an allowance for eating my lunch at my desk I'll get an allowance for this though right?

Getting an allowance for one activity wouldn't necessarily mean you would get an allowance for another unrelated activity. However, as I am not in the business of negotiating such agreements, I couldn't say.

RobbieTheRobber

sarumite wrote: »

Getting an allowance for one activity wouldn't necessarily mean you would get an allowance for another unrelated activity. However, as I am not in the business of negotiating such agreements, I couldn't say.

So what if I dont get the first allowance would that make me more or less liekly to get the second allowance?

frankosw

sparksfly wrote: »

The only jobs worth creating are in the private sector, the only sector that generates all the wealth and actually pays all the bills.

Generates wealth for who exactly?

Where are all the tax receipts from the construction boom?

Where's the leftover wealth from the credit explosion?

The private sector hasnt created one penny's worth of wealth,all its done is leave a pile of unpaid bills while the PS work to keep the country functioning.

Gingernuts31

leonidas83 wrote: »

And you think these stories come from thin air do you, deluded much??

Untill its comes straight from the governments mouth you can't believe what some firm says. Can they read minds or something?

sarumite

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So what if I dont get the first allowance would that make me more or less liekly to get the second allowance?

As I have said before, some allowances are probably justified, others are probably not. Specifically which allowances are justified, who should be entitled to them and whether receiving one allowances prohibits one from receiving another would depend on the circumstances.

themadchef

What sickens me is how the government fly their budget kites through leaks.

We should have a decent adult debate in the dail about what they are planning to cut before the budget.

None of this leaking nonsense. Shut up or put up Fine gael and Labour, im sick to death of the scare mongering.

The people are worried sick for months and then they expect almost a sigh of relief from them when it's "not so bad". Well it's going to be bad. It has to be bad for most. Can it be bad in a fair way though? That'd be great.

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I dont know anything about health and education, but you know enough to comment on how their budgets should be spent, so can you tell me what is a correct percentage of their budgets to be spent on staff costs?

What can be said about this that the services of both sectors are being torn apart and when a high % is enclosed via the CPA which cannot be touched for another 2 years the only areas to continue attacking are services ..and in the mean the time the average working person will be asked to pay more for these two vital services...I have no problem with 70/80 or 90% of wages being spent on both sectors providing when we are in trouble like we are now..we can cut back...but we cant so your comment is redundant.

fliball123

sock puppet wrote: »

Government spending is the lowest in the EU as a percentage of GDP as far as I'm aware. Add in our massive deficit and I don't think it's unreasonable to say we probably have among the lowest taxes in Europe.

Absolute nonsense when all taxes includeing PRSI, USC and stealth taxes are taken into account into this country we are one of the highest in the OCED...

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

What can be said about this that the services of both sectors are being torn apart and when a high % is enclosed via the CPA which cannot be touched for another 2 years the only areas to continue attacking are services ..and in the mean the time the average working person will be asked to pay more for these two vital services...I have no problem with 70/80 or 90% of wages being spent on both sectors providing when we are in trouble like we are now..we can cut back...but we cant so your comment is redundant.

I really dont have a clue what you are trying to say in this post because its all over the place.

So to borrow your phrase "your comment is redundant"!

fliball123

Gurgle wrote: »

€5.351bn is spent on salaries out of €8.063bn... that's 66% according to my calculator.

€3.213bn spent on teachers salaries, so 39.8% of the Department of Education budget is spent on paying the people who do the educating.

€2.1bn on salaries to non-teachers.
Has anyone got an explanation for this?

Does this take in such luxuries as Perks and allowances?

fliball123

frankosw wrote: »

Where exactly do the Public Sector spend thier wages?

Pubs,shops,hotels,restuarants...the private sector generally..do you think that by taking money out of people's pockets(again) they will still spend the same money on luxuries and staples alike as they did before?

Is taking money from th economy going to stimulate spending within the economy?

Can we cut our way out a recession?

Course not..its beyond foolish to think so.

And where do the the public sector get their money from ..from the private sector who create wealth..do you think that by continuously hitting these people is going to stimulate the economy. The fact is that all monies accrued via the public sector comes from the Private sector. So you think we should should continuously hit our primary source of income and save our public servants?

fliball123

frankosw wrote: »

Well thier usual answer is to ramp up prices.

A friend of mine was quoted 350 euro for a Family Home Declaration from a dublin solicitor..she got it printed for zero and 10 euro for the signature.

I was recently quoted 270 euro for a remote for a car alarm because they had to "reprogramme it in louth"

I noticed Spar have added 10c to the price of a coffee,Dakota Bar is charging 8 euro for a gin and tonic,Grehound have taken over waste collection and put thier prices up and MBNA credit cards have increased thier APR by 14%.

Is this in response to the "public servants" wanting to keep thier salaries or is it private sector greed?

Probably to pay for increments

fliball123

frankosw wrote: »

At the same time they will draw on public services when it suits them and demand better service for less outlay..teh sort of people who wouldnt be able to work in teh PS themselves yet begrudge people a day's pay.

I think the people who fancy themselves as economists need to look elsewhere for the cause of this problem..social welfare,asylum seekers,overseas aid,rent allowance,NAMA,teh bank gurantee and the millions upon millions paid to private law firms to go through the motions of telling us whats wrong with the country.

Last time I checked and compared from today to 5 years ago the services I am being provided with by the public sector has diminished to fcuk and I am pay significantly more for it in taxes...

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I would say a much larger portion of the population couldnt care less about the CPA etc than are actively angered by it.

I think you may be misjudging the mood Robbie..I know I have spared with you in the past but I have time and time again..that people are twigging the balance of what we spend and what we take in and what we are borrowing..and at the end of the day if we cant cut in one section, a cut is made to another..if no cuts can be made than money has to be raised by tax..So people know that if the PS pay and pensions keeps increasing with increments and the like..that this money has to be got from somewhere..so any non ps or associated ps such as a spouse have an idea that the CPA should be torn up and allow cuts to begin from the top down..I think people associated with the Ps and the unions have no idea how hated they are becoming and I feel sorry for the rank and file PS such as gards etc as they are all tared with the one brush, but its a problem of their own making until the link between the ps and unions are broken they will be seen as a parasite feasting on a rotting carcase that is Ireland Inc

fliball123

sean200 wrote: »

But the IMF are very happy with the croke park deal
You should be more worried about the private sector Muppets in the banks that were getting bigger bonuses the more they got a person in to debt who F***ed up this country
Or have u forgot who caused the problem?

Sean banks have caused about 1/3rd of this problem and this figure has been shown..the other 2/3rds are from overspeding in 2 main areas ..social welfare and public sector pay and pensons...Who was supposed to be regulating the muppets in the banks?..So to be honest unions and their collective bargining and social partnerships caused about 1/3rd the problem aswell....But dont let that get in the way of your rant kid

sparksfly

frankosw wrote: »

Generates wealth for who exactly?

Where are all the tax receipts from the construction boom?

Where's the leftover wealth from the credit explosion?

The private sector hasnt created one penny's worth of wealth,all its done is leave a pile of unpaid bills while the PS work to keep the country functioning.

That is the stupidest post I have seen in a long while.

The only wealth this (or any) country can generate is by selling our goods and services abroad. Exporters, who are almost all private companies, primarily pay all the bills and wages. There is no other means of bringing wealth into this country. It is this section of the private sector that I refer to, they must be supported as much as possible.

Developers are a different breed, they created nothing only misery.
They worked hand in hand with corrupt planning officials, politicians and regulators, the same PS clowns you claim "keep the country functioning"

The PS do not create one cent of wealth. They merely waste as much of it as they can on ineffeciency and greed.

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I know you are but what am I :P Childish


Oh FFS :rolleyes:



Indeed they are and pay has been reduced for new entrants which will lower the cost of staff into the future.
Also the Redundancy scheme to be offered in the new year will further reduce the overall PS cost!
So as you can see they government continues to look at ways to reduce the cost of the PS without the need to tackle the wages of existing staff.

Come on Robbie how much has been saved with a moratorium on for new hires thus far...I fear the CPA is running out of road..this budget will push a lot of people over the edge and I will put money on more things being rowed back on by the gov like last year when they made cuts to disability..The low hanging fruit has been picked and even the one arm of the troika the IMF are already pointing fingers at both social welfare and public sector pay and pensions...

sarumite

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Indeed they are and pay has been reduced for new entrants which will lower the cost of staff into the future.
Also the Redundancy scheme to be offered in the new year will further reduce the overall PS cost!
So as you can see they government continues to look at ways to reduce the cost of the PS without the need to tackle the wages of existing staff.

Do you think this current course of action by the government is fair? Considering there is currently a recruitment ban, do you think it is going to be an effective way of reducing costs as part of a strategy to reduce our deficit over the coming years few years?

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

I really dont have a clue what you are trying to say in this post because its all over the place.

So to borrow your phrase "your comment is redundant"!

You are asking what is an appropriate % to pay in a dept like health..I am saying there should be no set % as there will be ebbs and flows where there are more people needed... I say your post is redundant because at a time when we are borrowing 2 million an hour to keep the lights on we should be able to cut back on 2 of the biggest spends on public services health and education but over 3/4s of both are protected via the CPA

frankosw

fliball123 wrote: »

I think you may be misjudging the mood Robbie..I know I have spared with you in the past but I have time and time again..that people are twigging the balance of what we spend and what we take in and what we are borrowing..and at the end of the day if we cant cut in one section, a cut is made to another..if no cuts can be made than money has to be raised by tax..So people know that if the PS pay and pensions keeps increasing with increments and the like..that this money has to be got from somewhere..so any non ps or associated ps such as a spouse have an idea that the CPA should be torn up and allow cuts to begin from the top down..I think people associated with the Ps and the unions have no idea how hated they are becoming and I feel sorry for the rank and file PS such as gards etc as they are all tared with the one brush, but its a problem of their own making until the link between the ps and unions are broken they will be seen as a parasite feasting on a rotting carcase that is Ireland Inc

There have already been cuts to PS pay.

There will be no more...the targets are being met and cuts will now have to come from the moochers on the dole,tax cheats and those who have up to now thought themselves immune.

I personally would be happy when the Revenue department goes after every self employed person in this country and retrospectively audit them to make sure they are and always have been tax compliant....there are billions and billions due to the revenue commisioner through tax avaoidance and this should and will be persued.





There are a lot of people directing bile at the PS in the hope that scrutiny wont fall too sharply on thier own situation.

Keeping banging that keyboard..there's nobody listening to you.

frankosw

sparksfly wrote: »

The PS do not create one cent of wealth. They merely waste as much of it as they can on ineffeciency and greed.

No..they provide VITAL services that you cannot afford to pay for privately.

fliball123

frankosw wrote: »

There have already been cuts to PS pay.

There will be no more...the targets are being met and cuts will now have to come from the moochers on the dole,tax cheats and those who have up to now thought themselves immune.

I personally would be happy when the Revenue department goes after every self employed person in this country and retrospectively audit them to make sure they are and always have been tax compliant....there are billions and billions due to the revenue commisioner through tax avaoidance and this should and will be persued.






There are a lot of people directing bile at the PS in the hope that scrutiny wont fall too sharply on thier own situation.

Keeping banging that keyboard..there's nobody listening to you.

was the last cut not over 2 years ago now? Has there also been 5 rounds of increments since the first PS pay cut.. How do you know there will be no more cuts..No one knows what this government will do..but like I have pointed out the CPA is running out of road.. I agree with the muchers and the tax cheats go for it..but you cannot expect that to allow one area of our spend to remain untouched while everywhere else gets hit.... Hows about after going through the self employed , they go through allowances and do a third round of benchmarking for the PS...I cant argue with you about the other areas that they should be looking at..but the ps is full of waste as well and are overpaid in this climate..We are borrowing 2 million an hour..when will the penny drop? As for banging on the keyboard..this will come to a crescendo when they have to make more cuts to the ps pay and inevitably there will be a strike and believe me when I say that the general public will not be supportive of strikes when they see all areas of their life decimated.. Like I said to Robbie people have woken up to the fact that money for the likes of increments has to be got from cutting money from somewhere else or raising more taxes. Also the reason why people are pointing the finger at the PS is that they are the only group going up in wages with increments and have an agreement in place which protects them I know of no private sector company in debt and borrowing heavily paying increments..All the while 5 businesses go to the wall a week, people are losing their jobs and are forced onto the dole and to emigrate...and when someone dares asks why certain facets within the ps are paid so much and why they are still being paid pay rises the ps on here are up in arms...

sarumite

frankosw wrote: »

There have already been cuts to PS pay.

There will be no more...the targets are being met and cuts will now have to come from the moochers on the dole,tax cheats and those who have up to now thought themselves immune.

How do you distinguish between moochers and those who genuinely on the dole as a result of losing their job and being unable to find another one?

I personally would be happy when the Revenue department goes after every self employed person in this country and retrospectively audit them to make sure they are and always have been tax compliant....there are billions and billions due to the revenue commisioner through tax avaoidance and this should and will be persued.

Tax avoidance is legal. Nothing the revenue commissioner can do about it. If you are referring to tax evasion, that is obviously a different story, though there are more than just the self employed involved in that.

RobbieTheRobber

fliball123 wrote: »

You are asking what is an appropriate % to pay in a dept like health..I am saying there should be no set % as there will be ebbs and flows where there are more people needed... I say your post is redundant because at a time when we are borrowing 2 million an hour to keep the lights on we should be able to cut back on 2 of the biggest spends on public services health and education but over 3/4s of both are protected via the CPA

What

If there is no set percentage to concern, then why are people so worried that 80% is spent on wages?

Edit: Fliball do you realise how stupid, continously saying "at a time when we are borrowing to keep the lights on" over and over and over and over and over again no matter what the topic is seems to me?

RobbieTheRobber

sarumite wrote: »

Do you think this current course of action by the government is fair? Considering there is currently a recruitment ban, do you think it is going to be an effective way of reducing costs as part of a strategy to reduce our deficit over the coming years few years?

Fair on who?

What about continued reductions in the numbers in employed, will that not have an effect on the cost?

kippy

Looking at this post you'd swear that public servants weren't PAYE workers as well.

RobbieTheRobber

kippy wrote: »

Looking at this post you'd swear that public servants weren't PAYE workers as well.

Im not even sure why this thread has turned into an attack on public sector workers!

OMD

fliball123 wrote: »

Absolute nonsense when all taxes includeing PRSI, USC and stealth taxes are taken into account into this country we are one of the highest in the OCED...

Prove it please. You are talking rubbish

Duggys Housemate

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Im not even sure why this thread has turned into an attack on public sector workers!

One of the public sector workers unilaterally attacked the new unemployed i.e. young people who just graduated, or the recently laid off private sector workers as shysters. So it turned back on him.

fliball123

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

What

If there is no set percentage to concern, then why are people so worried that 80% is spent on wages?

Edit: Fliball do you realise how stupid, continously saying "at a time when we are borrowing to keep the lights on" over and over and over and over and over again no matter what the topic is seems to me?

Their concern is that the other 20% is to support the infrastructure around the service...so for example we have seen class sizes incresased and an increase in the number of shoody portocabins where are children are being supposedly educated...We are slipping downwards with regards to our results in areas such as maths and this 20% is the only area the government has to play with. So like I say its so much the % as a rule thing its the fact that 100% of the education budget should be targetted not just 20% regardless of how it is broken down....And I will repeat we are borrowing 2 million an hour to keep the lights on until the penny drops...In the time we have taken to have this written converse we have just spent another 2 million which we have borrowed and which will have to be paid back at some stage in the future...

kippy

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

One of the public sector workers unilaterally attacked the new unemployed i.e. young people who just graduated, or the recently laid off private sector workers as shysters. So it turned back on him.

Why wasn't the post reported and the mods involved?
This is the Irish Economy forum, not after hours.

Duggys Housemate

OMD wrote: »

Prove it please. You are talking rubbish

WE have the second highest tax on wages in Europe.

RobbieTheRobber

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

One of the public sector workers unilaterally attacked the new unemployed i.e. young people who just graduated, or the recently laid off private sector workers as shysters. So it turned back on him.

Oh for **** sake! :rolleyes:

Thread locked for bashing, backseat modding, ignoring mod warning to post constructively, etc.